deanox

Look that's fair, but even losing those players, we have depth, both existing and developing. Petty, Brown, Hore, Smith as talls. Plus we are discussing whether we can actually play Brown, Weid and Jackson in the same team. Sparrow, Lockhart, Baker, Bedford, as smalls. (Note I've listed players who didnt play in round 22 and Baker and Brown who get puahed out: you could easily swap fringe players to decide who is depth). That's 30 players. This year Brisbane used 36 players, but their bottom 8 only played 12 games between them. Collingwood used 40, but their bottom 10 played 15. Geelong used 34, their bottom 5 played 10. PA used only 30. Their bottom 4 played 20. Richmomd played 33. Their bottom 2 played 3, their bottom 3 played 9. St Kilda used 34, their bottom 6 played 8. We played 36 and our bottom 6 played 20. Depth doesnt need to go beyond 26 players, if you have a solid 22. Stretch to 30 players when rotating some development or some fringe players. Premierships are won by stable best 22s. If many more are needed we either wont have the talent or we'll be too injured to win a flag anyway. Trading out 8 depth players for 3 best 22 players will improve us immensely. We just want them to be players 5-15 if possible, not players 15-22.

With the reduced soft cap, do you think we'll have a forward, mid and defensive coach? I know we've previously used terms like offensive, defensive and stoppage coaches, implying a responsibility for all aspects of the game plan, not just 6 players. Is that better than line coaching? Can we afford both (line coaches plus role coaches)? Yze was Head of Match Day Strategy and Opposition at Hawthorn. I was wondering if he was coming to fill Craig Jennings role as Strategy and Analyst. We moved him on at the end of 2019 and chased Yze but didnt get him. Match Day strategy is interesting. Do we see Yze helping make calls and changes on game day (something that seems to be a Goodwin weakness)? This Tom Browne article is interesting. Jennings and Mcartney didnt get along. No mention of their relationships with Goodwin. Jennings celebrated in 2018 but potentialy responsible for failures in 2019. The self promotion is interesting: I wonder if he felt he should have been doing a senior role and it affected working relationships? Either way we didnt actually get to replace his role after 2019. https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/the-inside-word-on-how-melbourne-demons-craig-jennings-fell-out-of-favour-c-396886

We don't currently look like losing any best 18 players, let alone best 22. Of those you named, only ANB played in round 22, and it seems most people here want him gone anyway! If we lose TMac and bring in Brown, lose Hannan and bring in Smith, we have just pushed Brown/Weiderman and Baker into the reserves, immediately making our team better. We have a couple of quality senior players with a couple of years left (Gawn, May, Hibberd), and the middle 12 players in our best 22 will all have hit 100 games next year. We are either primed for a shot, or need to tear apart and rebuild. If this group haven't made it in the next two seasons, we are going to be doing some major list changes.

I think there is a chance that Pert's email about the review was prompted by realising Hawthorn were about to announce Yze's departure to Melbourne (I recall this hqppened the next day, and they mentioned his destination, not just that he was leaving). Why else would you announce the review one day, then a new apointment the next, before the review was complete?

The list managet and coaches would be choosing the trade targets, identifying tbe draft targets and what pick numbers they want for those targets, not Mahoney (although as part of the football department I'm sure he is involved in the discussions). Mahoney's role, as GM of Football (effectively the business manager of the football dept), is more likely to be involved in the negotiations/trading to acquire those targets

As a thought: Did Fritsch do the defendive stuff in 18/19 when playing back and wing? It could be that his role this year, effectively as a FF, meant he wasnt really in the positions to do the small/medium forward things.

This is their aim. More shots at goal. Increase scoring. Makes tv happy.

It's completely ridiculous. The only possible time that is relevant as "deliberate" is when a player is by themselves, in 20 m of space and does a doublehanded uncontested punch to the bounday. But even then how silly would that be? If the player thought they were safe to mark it, instead of going to a stoppage, they would. The punch would only ever happen if you felt percieved pressure, real or not.

I think this will help too. One issue I think we had this year was a very congested forward line. I can't remeber Weid being one out very often, and he only found space on leads occassionally. We tended to have packs of players forming. Ideally, with Brown in the side, he and Weid would split the space so that the key defenders arent at the same contest. The 3rd tall (Jackson) would roam around half forward wing, looking to bring it inside 50 (Weid would also play this role so Jackson can go forward, but I think Brown would tend to stay inside the 50). This would improve Weids marking chance, and also technically free Fritsch up as a 3rd marking target inside 50 against a much weaker opponent. We'll really need Melksham, Pickett and Fritsch to step up, they are then our defensive forwards. ANB, Hannan, VDB, Jones, Hunt and Spargo will be putting pressure on those three to perform.

Sorry, I wasn't saying we had said that. I was saying it's why we might be happy to do so. We could drive a real hard bargain based on 2 year contract and get nowhere. If we were demanding more than anyone would offer, then this wouldnt be public. So it is possible that we decided to accept a more reasonable compensation to make sure he moves, so that we can improve our overall list position. If Preuss leaving for a slightly lower pick than we think he is worth allows us to improve ourlist position overall, then why would we play hardball on principal and miss out?

Agree with this. You can get players through the draft, through trading or FA. Draft probably represents best chance of value: could get a bargain, but its riskier and takes time to develop. Trading is the lowest risk but there are limited resources we can use on trading and it is the most expensive (players are developed so more confidence in what you are getting). FA allows you to get good players for no resource (other than cap and list space, which we need to use and fill up anyway). In our situation plugging a few gaps for 2-3 years while developing younger players from the draft allows us to accelerate our improvement short term.

I think we are saying the same thing but imo it is the tone/connotation which are different. You seemed to imply derisively that he was choosing short term success for a selfish reason and that it is not the best decision for the club. I disagree and think that you are playing both sides: if he trades/drafts for finals you will say it "was to save himself" but if doesn't make finals you'll be one of the first to say he needs to be sacked. Am I correct?

Both have had injuries this year and struggled to find rhythm. It cant have been an easy year when out of form. I don't think either are to blame, but the quesrion is "who is more likely to hit form in 2021? I think that Brown (kicking 32, 41, 63, 61, and 64 goals in the 5 seasons before 2020) has a more consistent body of work behind him than TMac (one season above 23 goals) who although he has had periods of top flight football, it has been in patches and in different positions. Ben had an average 2020 (injuries and personal reasons). Tmac had an average 2020 (also injuries) but also a poor 2019, so has been out of form longer. Based on that, one could assume Brown is more likely to regain form, than TMac who has been in the wilderness for a couple of years now. TMac has always been a chaos player and he gets bogged down in structures which is why he gets thrown on the wing every now and then for a bit of freedom. Unfortunately chaos and freedom isnt a great way to find form at the top level, where even if you aren't in form, you need to find a way to do the basics and play your role. It seems Brown may have had a falling out with the coaching staff around their response in a difficult personal time (documented elsewhere). So it also could be that for both players, a fresh start, new environment, new coach, new game plan, will reinvigorate form.

Again. Why wouldn't that be the goal? We have a publicly stated aim of finals and a premiership in the next 3 years. We have Hibberd and Jetta aged 31, Melksham, Gawn and May aged 29. (We spent up on May for the purpose of finals) We have a core of players between 23 and 27, including 11 who will have played 100 games next year. It includes 3 of the better mids in the comp. Why wouldn't we be planning for finals next year? Do you really think he should reduce our chance of finals in the next 2-3 years in order to be more competitive in 5 years? His job IS to make finals the next couple of years and win a flag. Not to set us up for 2026.

I love trade time. I imagine Mahoney walking in to the Telstra Dome, calling a bunch of the over managers into a room together and announcing: "A bit of a long one but bear with me here everyone..."

Well he should be recruiting to play finals in 2021. I'd be more concerned if a) he wasn't trying to play finals in 2021 and/or b) we were going to the draft this year with a view to rebuilding for 2025. What are you expecting him to be aiming for?

This may be why we are happy to move Preuss on for relatively little, instead of driving a bargain. It becomes Preuss + 40 for Polac + 39 + the salary.

I understand the constitution includes an objective to maintain a team of footballers that compete in the AFL and any other competition as deemed relevant by the directors. To me the word compete implies trying to win matches. If winning was part of it, the constitution could instead state our objective was to simply "field" a side. I do think its fair to say that our objective is not to win matches, but it is to attempt to win them. That is probably semantics, but you started it!

That's not quite true. We are members, which is effectively the NFP/imcorporated associations version of shareholders. In a for profit company, you buy shares in a company that's purpose is "for profit" so you joib up for that same purpose. With a NFP company, you join as a member with the purpose of pursuing the aims of the organisation (competing in and winning football matches).

OMac was developed as a zone defender: read the play, hit the contest. Not as a lockdown one-on-one defender. And in this role he is not bad. Lever is also a zone defender. Both were recruited pre 666 when we were playing a full zone defence. So you comments about replacing OMac with a different key defender wasn't going to happen. And Lever wasn't meant to play as a 3rd tall, he was meant to be part of a zone defence. We trialled 20+ players on a wing trying to make them work, it didnt so we went out and bought two options, one who finished top 4 in our bnf, the other plays 13 games, even if not all on the wing. We have tried small forwards for years: Garlett, JKH, Johnstone, Spargo, ANB, Bedford. Dan Butler was traded in the same trade period we got Pickett, so wasnt there a year earlier. Which othet successful small forwards have been on the market? Apparently Papely was available but Im not sure what you'd say about two first round picks for him. How many players do you think we can replace in one year?

Great idea. Pity he spent all of last preseason with Petracca only, instead of performing his role for all players on the list.

Ah [censored] that's horrible. In that case, I hope that his mess up didnt affect our decision. He has held it together all year in a tough year, and shown he could hold it together. That's next level and if we were going to offer him a role is probably irrelevant.

I hadnt heard this. During the hub?

I hope he teaches him how to get the umpires to accept invitations for morning coffee as well.

Or perhaps the fact that Goodwin wanted Yze to join last year when Jennings left but couldn't get him because of contract, shows that Goodwin knows its an area he needs expert support and is thrilled to have him on board. If Yze helps us succeed it just proves Goodwin was right to try and get him last year!