Scoop Junior

Me too. I've never been a Neitz bagger - I've always loved what he brings to the table. Neitz will go down as a champion of the MFC and rightly so. But we are at such a low point that it's now about the future...not the past. Neita has all the heart in the world but there comes a time when a player is finished. No player has ever escaped that inevitability. I thought Neita's time may come at the end of this season, but it appears as though it's come a little earlier. He isn't providing value any more and a lot of it has to do with the game these days - it has changed and does not favour the gorillas. I don't blame Neita. He's done all he can do in his time at the club. But that time is very nearly over.

Yep it's going be tough to replace Neitz. Who else is going to provide us with 3 goals in 5 matches?

That may be true sylvinator, but the fact is you have to take your opportunities. From the heartache, something good could have come and that would have been an extra pick in the top 20 last year and a potential pick 1 and 2 this year instead of a potential 1 and 17. We stuffed it up by appointing Riley. He wanted to win games and that's fair enough, he wanted to push his name forward as a senior coach. But if we appointed someone who we knew would be at the club next year and would agree to playing a young inexperienced side, then we probably wouldn't have knocked off the Doggies, leaving us with 4 wins. Riley played his best possible side. Which other club would do that in such a situation? None.

Zebgrowler, you are currently paired with the worst team in the AFL, so it's not like we've got great players on our list who are going to star for Sandy. Our AFL team is poor enough, how good do you reckon blokes that can't make our 22 at the moment are? But we've given you a good run over the years with some good performances from AFL listed players helping Sandy to a number of premierships. I think it's perhaps a bit rough to start having a go at Melbourne now.

What I like about Bailey is his communication and self-belief. A good coach must be able to communicate well and this includes knowing how to talk to particular players to get the best out of them as well as getting the message through generally to the group. Coaches that are hesitant and lack confidence are typically poor communicators as their message isn't sold to the players. Why would you believe someone who doesn't believe himself? Bailey appears to be confident and a very good communicator. He of course still has plenty to prove but he deserves a good crack at it and he certainly has the attributes to be a very good coach.

I'd play Martin this week. I've seen what Jamar has to offer. A little bit of competitive ruckwork but little else. Nothing to get excited about. North have some big forwards and I'd be happy to give Martin a crack and then switch in the ruck to allow White some rest. To those who say no way, ask yourself this: Could he do any worse than Garland or Weetra in the past few weeks? And what value does Jamar provide the side?

I'm with you bjgc. I don't see a future with Carroll as a key defender. Defensively, he's too short. He does battle hard and is tough, but he gives away too much height every week. It was a joke seeing him try to stretch to spoil Tom Hawkins, he was just dwarfed by him. But worse than that is his decision making. Carroll panicks when he gets the ball and doesn't assess the situation quickly enough. His rushed behind effort was not a one-off, I've seen him do it before and in fact he did a similar thing against the Dogs last week. At best there's a role for him on a mid-sized forward as he just doesn't have the size to take on the big boys. Hopefully a bigger FB can develop for us this year.

"hard-running and neat disposal" I like that. It's exactly what we need.

I hear you Red&blue. Trouble is, it wasn't the Carlton game, it was the Bulldogs game that killed us. Carlton were never going to win that Rd 22 game, there was too big a prize at stake. Mark Riley played strong sides (well, as strong as possible) for most of the remainder of the season. Had we played only young, inexperienced players, the Dogs may have beaten us, leaving us with four wins. This is not cheating - it's called list management. There's no rule against playing particular players in your squad. 4 wins would've meant an extra pick in the high teens which could've landed another decent player. And judging by our form so far this season, we might be heading for priority pick territory. The simple fact is we need more talent on this list. Talent is more likely to come early in the draft. So saying that winning that Carlton game was more important than high draft picks is just ridiculous.

Yeah I agree we were a fair way away. That's the main thrust of my post - that we did not accurately gauge where we were at. But I don't agree on Bailey's failure to ship more out. It's not Bailey's fault he has inherited a crap list and I'll put my faith in him to sift his way through it and rebuild it. But you can come into a club and make hard decisions. Look at Malcolm Blight at Adelaide in flicking McDermott, McGuiness, etc. Bailey knew enough about our list to impress the selection panel and he therefore knew enough to make decisions prior to 2008. It's clearly not his fault where we are at, but I would have liked to have seen more done in the off-season in terms of rebuilding.

It's not easy to understand why we are where we are at the moment. I can't quite get my head around it. A team that performed well from 2004-2006, then had a horror run with injuries in 2007, to now being (at this point in time) uncompetitive with a style of football that is quite simply embarrassing. Many point their fingers at the senior players, and rightly so. But whose fault is it? The players' fault for not living up to expectation and not improving enough? A lack of development from the coaching staff? The list management staff for keeping them on too long? It's hard to know. I think a major reason for our current position has been a lack of understanding of our true position at particular points in time. Start with 2004 - top of the ladder after Rd 18. This is followed by a 12-goal loss to Port in Adelaide and is then followed by three consecutive losses and a subsequent elimination final defeat at the hands of Essendon. While it was a very disappointing end to the year, the side had made great progress since 2003. The drop-off at the end was somehwat forgotten amidst the joy at being back on track. Halfway through 2005 the side was again dominating, sitting in 2nd spot. A loss at home to WCE wad followed by smashings at the hands of Brisbane and Port. Again the side fell in a heap. There was a minor recovery at the end of the year with close wins in our last three games before bombing out against the Cats in an elimination final. What this season should've taught us was that once again our senior players failed. After a year ago falling away, this should not have been allowed to happen again. At this point in time it would've been fair to start moving on the blokes who kept letting us down. Instead we stuck with them. By Round 17 2006, the side was entrenched in the top four and looking the goods. Could we finally deliver? As in the previous two seasons, the team once again fell in a hole. A disastrous loss to Carlton (second loss to the Blues for the season) followed by one more win in the remaining four rounds. There was a good final win over the Saints (but remember, St Kilda led at three quarter time and had a bad run of injuries on the night) before losing the semi to Fremantle. Overall, reaching the semis was a good result, but from where we were at Round 17, it was disappointing. Again, for the third year in a row, the team fell in a hole. Decisions then had to be made. Do we stick with the blokes who obviously had enough ability to make us a decent side but clearly not a premiership side or do we move them on? ND and CAC chose to go for the flag. A bold move but understandable in the circumstances. ND was crippled by injuries in 2007 and this killed his flag chances. But so too did the faith he showed in his senior players. They had let him down before and in 2007, despite the injuries, the team was pathetic and they let him down again. Then we get to Bailey. New coach, new assistants, new footy manager, new everything. Another hard decision was there to be made - do we trade out the senior players who had let us down over a number of years or go with them again. We traded out one - TJ, but no one else. This was Bailey's first mistake. With all the new faces, a rebuild was on the cards. But we only did a partial rebuild, clearing only TJ. More should have gone. Again there was hope the senior players would lead the way in 2008. But it's now four years on since 2004, making them older, on the decline and even more flakier. Then some of these blokes make it into the leadership group! It's really no surprise to see the team wilt in the first few games. The senior players have done it before, so why wouldn't it happen again? How many times over the years have we seen Melbourne collapse in games, drop the unloseable game and go on big losing streaks? Teams with quality senior players don't do this. Yet we were too slow to learn and are now paying the price. Of course there are many other factors involved, like the fact we are being forced to play youngsters before they're ready in some cases and other youngsters with questionable abilities at senior level. This is inevitably going to result in some thumpings. But quite simply we've tolerated our senior players who have not been good enough for too long. This also impacts on the younger blokes as they are not getting the right leadership out on the ground. At the very least, these thrashings may have finally reuslted in the message getting through. The senior blokes are not good enough to take us where we want to go. It's painful, it's embarrassing, it's difficult to watch and it's quite simply ridiculous. But bad decisions result in bad outcomes. Let's hope we can learn from it.

If you are clearly in a rebuilding phase, then you don't just trade out one underperforming senior player at the end of the year. We should've looked to trade 3 or 4 of them and further improve our draft position. It's easy to say now we are rebuilding, but I don't think the footy department intended such a complete rebuild. If you thought the efforts were mostly there and you didn't believe we played that badly, then I must say you are very easily pleased. Our first two games have been so far below acceptable AFL standard that it's been a complete and utter embarrasment to all involved with the MFC. We have been disgraceful and the scoreboard has fairly reflected that.

Bruce did well on Brad Johnson, but it has got to the stage where I don't want him getting the ball. He coughs is up far too regularly for a senior player. There is a spot for him in the side in a defensive role.

Perhaps a good sponsorship opportunity as well...

Probably wouldn't get a game for a B-grade amateurs side either!

Agree Rhino. Watching Carroll is like groundhog day. The standard rough-up before the bounce. Sideways kicks. Marking and handballing to a player so close to him that the bloke on the mark can lay the tackle. Comical errors. Brain fades. Then throw in a few good marks and pieces of play. Will we ever have a good full back?

Yeah I bought tickets today too. I reckon it could cost about a dollar for each point we score (tickets were $25)!

It may take time to adjust to a new game plan, but that doesn't explain the woeful skills on display, the poor application, the missed tackles and the failure to work hard both ways. It's just a cop-out to use excuses like a new game plan. We were utterly pathetic in all aspects of footy. Even without a game plan you should still be able to execute basic football skills. Warren Dean while we did achieve those results last year, it doesn't mean much. The most annoying comment I hear Melbourne players make is "On our day, we're capable of beating anyone". Well so what. Anyone can beat anyone on their day, that's the nature of the competition. Good teams are those that perform consistently over the course of the season. Crap teams are those that perform every now and then. For the last 23 H&A matches we've simply been that - a crap team.

Don't worry mate. All that those underperforming Demons could do is make Sandy a less formidable side.

No need to tank mate. All we have to do is turn up and the rest will take care of itself! While I'm surprised at the magnitude of the defeat, I'm not entirely surprised by the manner in which we played. I watched the practice match against North. We were woeful. You can't just turn that around in a few weeks. At least when a team loses you can normally point to some positives, like they ran the ball well, they tackled well, they passed well to the forwards, etc. We were pathetic in all aspects of the game. It really is disgraceful to put on that performance after 6 months of hard training. They've embarrassed the club. While it couldn't possibly get worse, I really can't see it getting a whole lot better with this lot.

I've got a feeling Bell will play on Franklin when he is up the ground. He may not have the height, but he does have the pace and mobility to go with Franklin on the lead and on the ground (where Franklin is most dangerous) and he also has the strength to move him under the ball. When Franklin pushes closer to goal, perhaps a bigger opponent will switch onto him.

It may well be a marathon, but as they say, you can't win a marathon in the first few kilometres but you sure can lose it in that period. A slow start to the season can be overcome, but a disastrous start just about puts you out of calculations. We aren't exactly in the luxurious position of being able to pace ourselves. Having said that, Rivers is too important to risk. Hopefully though his return isn't too far away.

No matter what the game plan is, if you can't execute basic skills and make good decisions with the footy, you are going to look like a very ordinary side. Then throw in the fact that you struggle to take the ball away from the centre with any conviction, look extremely one-paced through the middle of the ground and tackle poorly, you are going to look like an inept football side. And that's precisely what we were yesterday. Having said all that, the game plan on show yesterday was somewhat of a shambles. The big concern is we have only two players that you can count on for a solid, consistent, know what you're going to get performance from week to week. One is a third year player (Jones) and the other a 30-year-old veteran (McDonald, who wasn't a standout yesterday but has proved himself a consistent performer over the past couple years). Then there was only one player yesterday who looked capable of taking the game on and turning it in our favour and that was Davey. The only one that could escape the clutches of the North players and the only one that would use the ball intelligently everytime he got it. Too many of our players fail to produce the goods from week to week. It is only pre-season and I'll reserve judgment until the real stuff starts, but if guys like McLean, Sylvia, Green, Moloney, Bate, Bell, who we need to become consistently good players week-in week-out, can't produce then we are in for a long year.

Dont forget to tape the game for me Redleg! Somehow I dont think any bars in Rio de Janeiro will be showing the classic first round NAB Cup showdown between the Dees and Cats!

Surely a premiership with the club whose list you have selected yourself is the biggest and most rewarding challenge. I too would like to know some reasons for the decision in the future. It's a big loss. CAC has been very, very good.