Jaded, what's your definition of the role of a coach? And who's to say that there will be long term gain?

Unlike most posters, I can't cop the 100 point beltings, and find it ridiculous that everyone is blaming Neil Daniher. The coach doesn't have to be best friends with the players, but he must earn their respect. If Bailey's idea of discipline is to alienate the players, his tenure will be shortlived.

As a club, we can't afford 4 years in the wilderness, which is how long it will take any coach to reconstruct a list. If our on and off field record remains the same, we will be the no. 1 target by the AFL for relocation.

It won't take 4 years as you seem to think. Where did you pull that figure from. I t should be about 1.5 - 2 years before our 23 year olds are in their mid 20's & by next year they'll be starting to be getting used to being expected to carry the load.

We should be starting to be competative by mid to late next year.

Im sure if we treat our players like children they react like children, its not a boarding school ffs. I can understand if its positive criticism, but he aint gonna get too much respect from players if he is acting like a prison warden

It won't take 4 years as you seem to think. Where did you pull that figure from. I t should be about 1.5 - 2 years before our 23 year olds are in their mid 20's & by next year they'll be starting to be getting used to being expected to carry the load.

We should be starting to be competative by mid to late next year.

Are you talking about players like McLean, Sylvia, Moloney, Dunn and Davey? These are the guys that are underperforming under Bailey, and according to some, are prime candidates for the purge.

I dont understated your skepticism of Jaded's simple statement when you are on the other bemoaning the process DB is implementing because it adversely affects the financial position of the Club. Nothing like buttering the bread on both sides.

You're right, but I was just pointing out the fact that a premiership doesn't necessarily guarantee financial security.

The problem I have got with Jaded's posts and others, is the inference that there is a greater likelihood of success under Bailey if we weed out those who struggle with his game plan. And Jaded is implying that his notion of success under Bailey is a premiership. Noone can guarantee that 3 years down the track, we will be in a position to make the finals, let alone contend for a flag. What I'm saying is, let's play a brand of football that will at least make us competitive, and start getting cute when we have the cattle to seriously contend for a flag.

Whilst I agree that the game has changed markedly in the past 5 years, the basics of football still apply. I watched the game between Brisbane and Collingwood in awe, because it was old style head over the ball footy. And quite often the Lions would kick the ball to Jonathon Brown, who had to contest against 2 or 3 players. Leigh Matthews is a great coach because his teams do the basics well, and he doesn't try to be too cute with his game plan.

THE GAMEPLAN

We look awful with our overpossessing. We do. Just kick the farkin thing! I say it constantly, probably too much.

BUT does anyone remember when the Hawks looked awful doing the same thing. Think about it, in 2004 they lost many games in a row and then they beat the Lions at the G by 8 goals doing exactly what they had failed to do right so often. And look where the Hawks are now.

I'm going to give the gameplan time. The players i'm fed up with but this "run & carry/backline wave" game plan is what Port Adelaide won a flag with and what Hawthorn tore us apart with. Remember the Inside 50s were 54 - 46 and they won by 104! They just flushed it out of our forward line with numbers and delivered it well to Franklin.

BAILEY

This is mostly pabulum to me, this rumour. However, with every rumour...

It looks like Dean Bailey, new senior coach: testing the boundaries of what he can and can't do, pushing players who aren't used to being pushed, and telling players who don't listen to listen.

We have a dearth of leadership so he's showing it to the young blokes himself. And don't tell me Green and Bruce are leaders, 'cos they aint.

He's telling Newton that to become a player he is capable of being, means he has to work and push himself. Getting him angry? See how it works.

He's telling Moloney that he isn't listening to his gameplan. Doesn't suit his natural game this "run & carry/backline wave" plan. Dean says do it this way, Brent says "I want to farkin kick it" and he is out of the team. I Love Brent, love the way he plays, but if the coach of the Melbourne Demons Football Club tells you to do something - you do it.

No. No. No excuses.

You do it.

You're right, but I was just pointing out the fact that a premiership doesn't necessarily guarantee financial security.

The problem I have got with Jaded's posts and others, is the inference that there is a greater likelihood of success under Bailey if we weed out those who struggle with his game plan. And Jaded is implying that his notion of success under Bailey is a premiership. Noone can guarantee that 3 years down the track, we will be in a position to make the finals, let alone contend for a flag. What I'm saying is, let's play a brand of football that will at least make us competitive, and start getting cute when we have the cattle to seriously contend for a flag.

Whilst I agree that the game has changed markedly in the past 5 years, the basics of football still apply. I watched the game between Brisbane and Collingwood in awe, because it was old style head over the ball footy. And quite often the Lions would kick the ball to Jonathon Brown, who had to contest against 2 or 3 players. Leigh Matthews is a great coach because his teams do the basics well, and he doesn't try to be too cute with his game plan.

Jaded was not guaranteeing anything but stating that she thought there was a greater chance of success under DB's plan than just playing the old way. I think she is right.

Continuing with a game plan that caters for the unaccountable, lazy and demonstrated superceded football style that MFC have played creates a false dawn of competitiveness.

There is nothing cute about what DB is seeking to do. He is seeking the players to play accountable attacking football using strong running and handball to move the ball and to maintain pressure around the ball and opponent. Guess what? That's exactly what Collingwood do, who you admire and other top teams. Your example of the Collingwood match. The game has evolved in the past 2 to 3 years as a running game. Positions are not static, players are more mobile and they run, run, run. The biggest highlight you should have picked up was the interchange numbers. Over 100 interchanges which Matthews says is increasingly controlled by the players who rotate to ensure there are always fresh legs at the contest. Matthews script aint too much different than DBs but he has a more matured playing list that have worked on this for longer than MFC.

DB is putting the same message to players and will continue to counsel them to adapt or perish. And its not a matter of players who dont like it seeking a better path at another Club. The game has changed and alot of MFC players need to come to terms with that on the ground. Some players will, some player wont and will go. We need to work on the skill levels to succeed now not later. I think we actually have most of the cattle we need. Its up to them to take up the challenge. This will be supplemented through draft/trade over the next 2 years. The skills required will not be learnt quickly and certainly not over an injury interrupted pre season. The confidence will grow as they get better at these skills through training.

The messages DB is putting out there are simple and consistent. There challenging to achieve for a young playing group with many senior players rather set in old ways. The responses and behaviours of the players to following these instructions is outwardly complex and at times cute. Buts its how they respond over the next 4 weeks and the rest of the year that will determine the on field outcomes.

whose talking of Smith..I was referring to Danihers Damsels !!

Thats is what I was alluding too though, how many purges do we need to sort it all out?

Jaded was not guaranteeing anything but stating that she thought there was a greater chance of success under DB's plan than just playing the old way. I think she is right.

Thanks, you just saved me two minutes of explaining.

Honestly, lets just never do anything to really change. Lets instead sit back and year after year and do nothing. If that won't fix our problems, nothing will

Thats is what I was alluding too though, how many purges do we need to sort it all out?

probably as many as it takes !!

I had two particular moments over the weekend when my first thought was...."time to go ...... "

The first was on sat when Roobo had the ball in the pocket.. ..he made no effort what so everto put [censored] to advantage. He semed manis in his wantig to kick the goal...lucky for him he did. That...me-me-me-me attitude had nothing to do with team footy.

The second was on sunday . The ball in pocket for Sandy. Ooze is at throw in.. He 's not even looking at the ball. The play happens to be right in front of him. His body language just yelled.. "Oh I suppose I might do something" Then he had to as he was in th emidst of it.. But only enough to get away with. No second effort. The look on his face said he not only didnt want to be there but that it was beneath him.. Yes..only my perception. But definitely not the demeanor of someone trying to break back into the seniors. He pobbaly thinks with our current position that its some sor of right of passage once more to return to the firsts. That DB will have no choice.

This was very different to how Jared played.

Point being there are still Melbourne players who are for want of a better word...just lazy. Somewhat over opinionated of themselves.

I really think this IS our winter of some Discontent !!....and those with such malaise need to go. They are like a virus.

OMG I am so damn sick of people saying "Look at the Hawks now!" They have a 5th finish, and have won 2 games this year. We had some fifth finishes a couple of years ago! They have not actually accomplished anything, I'd much rather be looking at Geelong and Port, two sides built on great defence.