So, your argument is that it's ok to play Frawley immediately and not Newton because we desperately need a key defender.

Haven't we just discovered that without Neitz we have no key forwards so by going by your reasoning Newton should have already been playing.....

I understand what you're trying to say and I believe that Frawley should slip into the team as quickly as we can get him in, i'm not saying you're wrong there. I just think that we have some major issues in other areas and not just defence and key forwards is a pretty main one. Miller is a good average player, at best, and it's rare that teams win Grand Finals with those types of forwards.

Frawley won't play this week anyways, so the point about him coming straight into the side is irrelevant. The club rates him highly and so they should, they spent their first round draft pick on him. Even with our entire defence up and running (except Wheels/Bartram who play a different role anyways), we still need an extra tall. Warnock was played out of desperation, and he did well under the circumstances.

When Frawley has gained match fitness, he'll play because there are no other BETTER candidates for the role of the third tall/ rebounding defender.

And I find it funny how two weeks ago we were all praising Miller for his hard work this season, and yet after one bad game where he had minimal opportunities, we want to see the back of him just to promote a kid who has had 2 good games at Sandy? Back-stabbing at its highest.

I have news for you, we won't win a premiership with or without Miller, not this year anyways. Newton will get his chance, but as I said, we can't fit him into the side at the present moment.

It would be pathetic team-managment if we dumped our best key forward for the year in favour of an unknown.

I want to see him play just like everyone else does, but this week is not the right time. His opportunity was there when Neita got injured, but his form wasn't up to scratch. Now that it is, he can keep working away and learn the value of hard work. Is if fair when you compare that to the treatment Frawley is getting? probably not. Is it justified? yep.

P.S.- I don't see any "Where the hell is Buckley, and why is Ward still getting a game" threads. I wonder why that is? Could it be that people are getting sucked into the hype surrounding Newton (how many people have actually seen him play I wonder)? Are we not desperate for some speed through the middle moreso than another tall forward?

Jaded, when is then right time?

Neitz already back, Robbo in a couple of weeks, surely when he is back Newton will have little chance of playing, unless we get injuries to Neita or Robbo again.

Buckley hasn't kicked 11 goals in 2 games.

Jaded, when is then right time?

Neitz already back, Robbo in a couple of weeks, surely when he is back Newton will have little chance of playing, unless we get injuries to Neita or Robbo again.

Injuries and loss of form are sure things in football.

I'd prefer for Newton to debut alongside Neita and Robbo anyways, in a properly functioning forward line.

I just don't see how people can get so confused by the non-inclusion of Newton this week. With Neita, Miller, Dunn and the form of Bate at CHF last week, how can we possibly afford yet another tall?

There is playing the kids (which I'm a big fan of), then there is creaming your pants over someone you've hardly ever seen and demanding he gets a game even if that stuffs up your team structure completely.

Buckley isn't a key forward, and he played very well in the NAB Cup. Newton didn't play at all.

According to a few posters Buckley has struggled at Sandy the past three weeks, Newton is in form and our forward line can't kick enough goals and last week they had enough supply to kick a winning score. This week we don't need Holland Warnock or Frawley playing as I have stated the doggies aren't tall up forward Rivers Carroll, Bell with maybe Bruce, Brown and Ward can cover down back, which then opens a spot on the bench for either Newton, Dunn or Miller. Why don't we test the Dogs small defense by rotating four talls through our forward line. Miller, Dunn and Newton are all three diferent types of forwards and can play in te same team.

Why play Newton when Robbo and Neitz are both playing, so he can sit on the bench four 90% of the match.

We still have to try and win games, bringing in form players into your team can only bring us closer to this.

What happens next week if Newton kicks 10 in the Sandy 2nds (if they are playing this week) does he go to WA to be smashed by the Eagles?

There is playing the kids (which I'm a big fan of), then there is creaming your pants over someone you've hardly ever seen and demanding he gets a game even if that stuffs up your team structure completely.

Buckley isn't a key forward, and he played very well in the NAB Cup. Newton didn't play at all.

Totally agree. Big ask for Newton to step straight into CHF no matter what his form is like. Wouldn't surprise if Frawley gets a start, though. He was widely tipped to start Round 1, so they might be keen to give him a run sooner rather than later.

Last year Michael Newton played all year in the sandy 2's and kicked over 100 goals for the year (im pretty sure he did, if not he was close.....)

newton kicked 52 for sandy 2nds last year, including a haul of 12 in one game.

...he's ( miller )one too many.. and quite frankly, he'd be the less dangerous to the scoreboard. As a forward..I reckon that counts a bit :-)

brad miller is currently leading our clubs goal kicking with 7 goals for the season. make of that what you will. im not saying he is a scoring force but he has been doing his job. he kicks more goals when he is played closer to goal. when neitz came back he was moved outside the forward 50. thats a pretty good indication that ND is playing him up the ground rather than as a goalkicker.

Juice didn't go missing in the pre-season games. He went missing in the ONE intra we had.... severley missing by all accounts.

i stand corrected

incorrect, buckley had only one bad game at sandy, and was suffering from the flu i believe. His performances in all other games have been strong.

I dont see what the fuss is?!

Im a Newton fan i think he has a lot of potential. But he has hardly dominated. He has played two good games in the last 2 weeks but before that he was certainly not knocking the door down for selection. Hes a young kid and i think he needs to be consistantly very good at VFL level before he gets promoted. Key forward role is hard to play for anyone let alone a 19/20 year old. I think danners is doing the right thing.

If he isnt dominating week in week out at VFL level hows is he going to play well week in week out at Senior level? He has to learn more before he is a senior player. Another couple of weeks with bags of 4 or 5 and he may get a go.

How well was Garland playing before he was selected?

I dont see what the fuss is?!

Im a Newton fan i think he has a lot of potential. But he has hardly dominated. He has played two good games in the last 2 weeks but before that he was certainly not knocking the door down for selection. Hes a young kid and i think he needs to be consistantly very good at VFL level before he gets promoted. Key forward role is hard to play for anyone let alone a 19/20 year old. I think danners is doing the right thing.

If he isnt dominating week in week out at VFL level hows is he going to play well week in week out at Senior level? He has to learn more before he is a senior player. Another couple of weeks with bags of 4 or 5 and he may get a go.

Well said Don.....

I am also all for giving the kids a run but only when they are deemed ready for that opportunity by the power that be that know them, and what they are capable of, a hell of a lot better than we do. The thing is when you are losing like we have been we are looking for something, anything to hold onto, and seeing some of our future is definitely one of those things. But at the end of the day the kids have to be ready for the jump. He will get his chance.

Miller, Dunn and Newton are all three diferent types of forwards and can play in the same team.

I am also curious about this, and hopefully someone can get over their anti-Miller bias long enough to explain to me why this can't work in the long run?

Maybe not this year, but our full forward is not going to around for a hell of a lot longer (unfortunately) so I am just wondering why this wouldn't work, eventually.

How well was Garland playing before he was selected?

I am going to put that in reverse. So why then was Garland selected ahead of Newton for the Sydney game?

There was plenty of opportunity for a tall forward (at least in regards to the people missing) to take the opportunity. So why was Garland, who is quite a bit younger and with less experience, given the opportunity ahead of Newton if he wasn't playing that well at Sandy (as has been implied)?

Enquiring minds want to know.......

His time will come, make the boy work his arse off for it.

Totally agree, When the time comes, he will know he has earned his spot, and will be confident of having an impact rather than spending most of the time on the bench.

There was plenty of opportunity for a tall forward (at least in regards to the people missing) to take the opportunity. So why was Garland, who is quite a bit younger and with less experience, given the opportunity ahead of Newton if he wasn't playing that well at Sandy (as has been implied)?

Enquiring minds want to know.......

I’ve only been down to Sandy once this year and I’m glad Steve Johnsons old man didn’t belt me cause I was giving it to Johnson all day. On that day Garland had a much better game than Newton. Infact Garlands started like a house on fire kicking and creating goals. Newton did very little except fly for mark of the year, he was however being played on the wing.

I didn't expect him to get a game but a mention on the extended bench would have been a good thing.

I get concerned because I rember a bloke called chris lamb who i thought played some good games at the end of the year and hardly got a sniff after that.

I dread to think that this will happen to cj too.

I didn't expect him to get a game but a mention on the extended bench would have been a good thing.

I get concerned because I rember a bloke called chris lamb who i thought played some good games at the end of the year and hardly got a sniff after that.

I dread to think that this will happen to cj too.

CJ would have a slightly different problem though as I see it, and please anyone correct me if they think I am wrong......

He seems to be the perennial one dropped after a loss if he didn't have a commanding game, which he hasn't really had the chance to have yet (at least in the regular season). But on the other hand he hasn't exactly been the most horrible one out there in our losses to date either.

Honestly his confidence must be totally shredded by this point, and that is not going to do him or us any favours in the long run.

I would think that giving him at least three weeks on end to see if the kid can make something of it would not be out of the question, especially now.

Newton hasn't been given the opportunity either because, as I understand it from reading here, he wasn't showing enough when the opportunity arose through injuries to the key Demon forwards, and now that he is showing something, even if it is only for a couple of weeks there is simply not a spot for him now anyway.

CJ would have a slightly different problem though as I see it, and please anyone correct me if they think I am wrong......

Your analysis of the CJ situation is spot on.

For the life of me I can't work out why he is receiving the treatment that he is.

Surely we could use someone with reasonable pace and good disposal. Yes, he's been quiet when given a run, but he deserves a number of weeks to show what he can do, rather than the customary 40 minute runs.

I'm pretty disappointed actually, because I expected big things from him this year. I have a feeling that if things don't change, we won't see him at Melbourne next season.

can we trade CJ and our first round pick for judd?

is that a bit like selling our soul (father son) for the devil?

can we trade CJ and our first round pick for judd?

is that a bit like selling our soul (father son) for the devil?

No, it's a bit like trading a can of Coke and a hot-dog for Judd. (Even the real Hot Dogs won't cut it!)

West Coast wouldn't take that deal. What the hell do they need CJ for? If he can't get a game at Melbourne, how will he get a game at the Eagles?

We might get a third round pick for him, if we're lucky, which is precisely why we need to stick with him. His trade value is virtually zero, and yet he has the potential to be a very good player. I'm completely at a loss here as to why he isn't getting a game.

Give me CJ over Ward anyday/everyday/for eternity.

a quote from Beach Road Barry's last Sandy report

Chris Johnson – didn’t do anything outstanding after being dropped from the Demons after their Sydney debacle.

...

Daniel Ward – was one of his team’s best and his experience was invaluable but one wonders whether he can still perform at the highest level.

ignoring the second part of the ward quote, which is BRB's view, last week at sandy CJ just went and ward was one of the best. who ever said that form at sandy should count when getting a go?

maybe CJ isnt getting a go because he doesnt want it enough. if he is just going at sandy why would he ever rip it up in the afl?

maybe CJ isnt getting a go because he doesnt want it enough. if he is just going at sandy why would he ever rip it up in the afl?

2 Points:

1. Can you blame him for not putting in when he has been shown so little faith by the coaching department?

2. Garland

I'm not saying CJ necessarily deserves a game based on the way he played last week at Sandy, but given his form in the NAB Cup, and the fact that he's done his time at Sandy, you would think that now would be the time to play him.

BTW, he never should have been dropped after one game to begin with.

Cj and Newton must be thrown inot the mix THIS SEASON. Bizz, ward and holland are a number of handy depth players that wont be around next season. If we dont groom newton and CJ now, then we can expect to see some rather large cracks developing in our side in 08.

Newton has to earn it, and his efforts should have got him within an inch of getting selected. As for CJ, he should be in the side now. He is up and dwon, but so was dan bell a few years back, and belly is coming good due to some games under his belt. The same tolerance must be shown with cj!

2 Points:

1. Can you blame him for not putting in when he has been shown so little faith by the coaching department?

2. Garland

1. if he drops his head and puts in a s...house effort at sandy because he was dropped from the firsts are you sure you want him around the club? yze went back got 28 touches and 6 tackles and people said he hadnt done his penance, but yze had over 200 senior games of experience on his side. CJ has a hell of a lot of potential. but potential is all he has at the moment. no runs on the board no points earnt. if he wasnt interested in playing for sandy the coaching staff are right not to select him.

2. ive got no idea about this one. it was as left field as left field gets. maybe ND pulled it out just to prove to people he can play the kids? these people are payed too much money to be making random selections so there is obviously method to his madness. but i cant explain it.

2 Points:

1. Can you blame him for not putting in when he has been shown so little faith by the coaching department?

2. Garland

1. Yes, I can blame him. I don't think CJ's gunna make it. He doesn't do enough at AFL level to cut it. I know its archaic to suggest, but I'd be sticking with Brown & Ward at HBF at this stage.

2. Agree Deanox. Maybe they were just hoping....................

2 Points:

1. Can you blame him for not putting in when he has been shown so little faith by the coaching department?

if thats the case then he doesnt deserve to be an AFL footballer

he is still a kid, and kids do need to work harder to earn their spot in the team ahead of the older guys

when playing AFL this year, CJ hasnt really done much, ward is a better option until CJ can perform consistently at sandringham (niether will play in the backline when whelan, bartram and petterd are all available)

CJ has been fairly consistent at Sandy, and from what I gather from the match reports we get here, last week was the first time he has played at Sandy and not been named in the best. That is a pretty good effort!

He is allowed to have one ordinary game, especially given the circumstances of his demotion. He was one of three omissions from a side that got belted. The other 2 were Jamar, who has had plenty of time to prove he is struggling, and Garland who probably shouldn't have played to begin with.

In my mind, given that we are 0-6 and that we have a long injury list, there is no reason not to play CJ. Certainly he should be getting a game ahead of someone who we know is not up to scratch, and probably won't survive another year on the list.

CJ has been fairly consistent at Sandy, and from what I gather from the match reports we get here, last week was the first time he has played at Sandy and not been named in the best. That is a pretty good effort!

He is allowed to have one ordinary game, especially given the circumstances of his demotion. He was one of three omissions from a side that got belted. The other 2 were Jamar, who has had plenty of time to prove he is struggling, and Garland who probably shouldn't have played to begin with.

In my mind, given that we are 0-6 and that we have a long injury list, there is no reason not to play CJ. Certainly he should be getting a game ahead of someone who we know is not up to scratch, and probably won't survive another year on the list.

Don't get me started....

Certainly he should be getting a game ahead of someone who we know is not up to scratch, and probably won't survive another year on the list.

i have no problems with that and i think that CJ is someone worth persevering with but it seems the footy dept is damned if it does and damned if it doesnt. if they play the kids (garland) they shouldnt because they didnt deserve it. but on the other hand the season is shot so the kids should also get a run (buckley). also we should be rewarding good performances at sandy (newton) but not other good performances (ward) and we should play CJ because he has potential; even though he didnt perform at sandy.

as far as i can tell that sums up the views on this topic. they are inconsistent at best and self serving at worst. people have been bagging the coaching and selection staff but if you consider what people are really asking for the coaching staff are making decisions that arent half bad. CJ is a future player at the dees, no doubt in my mind. but if he is just going at sandy because he was shitty at getting dropped he deserves another week down there. let chris smash em this week playing in the sandy magoos and see if he can back it up in the afl.