Paul Roos: Rugby Union is like Melb Demons were

[jnrmac 20,053]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/rugby-union/lessons-for-the-wallabies-from-our-rebuild-at-the-demons/news-story/211fb983d86ee5c1960404e34cd8a46d

It's paywalled but will try to update with comments later

 

 

[TGR 1,367]

He's good the sundance kid.  Not only does he have a potential customer-base of 18 in the AFL, now he has suddenly got another 18 internationally.

Defensive and boring is great; but lack of speed kills I say; particularly when the AFL have been driven to speed up the game in the past 7-8 years with additional rules and stricter interpretations.  Sydney 2005 would get smashed in the current environment, yet his mentality is just the same.  Sydney got away with lack-of-speed because they could create stoppage after stoppage.  The game has changed.  No wonder Malthouse and Lyon couldn't sustain it and/or had to re-invent.

 

He did well Roosy, and I enjoyed the veil of positivity he brought.  Don't know if he has ever been accountable for the Kelly for Salem/Tyson trade and allowing leadership (Howe and Dunn) to walk out.

 

The other thing is that 'what he created' needs to be sustainable.  Either it was the current lot stuffed it up; or what he created wasn't.

[jnrmac 20,053]

Some snippets:

One of the first things we got right at Melbourne was cohesion from the top down.

The coach has to be given all the responsibility and authority. You can’t have a high-performance manager coming in on top of the coach. 

teams that win sports championships throughout the world are the best defensively.

 

Offence is talent, and defence is mentality.

Build a defence that no other team finds easy to break. It was our mantra at the ­Demons — be the team everyone hates playing. (we are the opposite!)

If you’re a behavioural-based team, your performance rarely drops. I think of Hawthorn and the Melbourne Storm. If you’re a talent-based, experimental team, you’ll have your good days when you beat one of the better teams. But it won’t last, and it will crack under pressure (very astute observation)

[TRIGON 4,783]

Yes and congratulations to England -  they put on a very skilled and accomplished display. What can be learnt from the display versus the All Blacks, and comparing the approaches taken by Michael Cheika Vs Eddie Jones, translates across to AFL:

• Must have a balanced team; strong defence, with the skill and speed to hurt offensively,
• Must study opposition; understand their strengths and weaknesses - how to break them down.

Seems simple enough; astonishes me how many coaches ignore these tenets so that they can 'play their way'.

Edited October 28, 2019 by TRIGON

[demoniac 1,330]

Rugby Union in Australia just accesses a very small talent pool. Historically the Wallabies were easybeats until the 80s when we led the rugby world in embracing professionalism. We dominated in the 90s but then the rest of the rugby world caught up and we are back in the pack again.

Of course as is now traditional most rugger journos and ex players are blaming the incumbent coach and opining that we just have to get Eddie Jones back and all will be well. The small talent pool rates nary a mention. Maybe its too depressing a subject for them as its hard to conceive how they can grow their talent pool in a pretty competitive market for junior talent.  

It will be interesting to see what Foxtel offers rugger when current deal expires. Foxtel is under pump and has mooted a reduced expenditure on sports that don't rate well.

I'd like Super teams and Wallabies to improve, my 94 year old Brisbane born and bred Dad is a rugger tragic, the general mediocrity of the Australian Super Rugby teams and the Wallabies is ruining his 90s!

How do make a good rugby coach a widely scorned rugby coach? Make em Wallabies coach!

[old dee 23,743]

I have tribe of inlaws in NZ and all you ever hear is about the bloody All Blacks. Best event was them getting done by the poms and not even making the final. Two have tickets to the final, airfares and hotel booked months ago. 2019 has had its upsides.

[TRIGON 4,783]

Many of the points you make are quite valid @demoniac. From a resources perspective we're well behind the power nations, and there are widespread concerns about state of the game at the grassroots level. Placing a benchmark of winning Rugby World Cups is an unrealistic (but not impossible) benchmark; so putting the coach under the microscope with that as a KPI is unreasonable.

However, a deviation from the fundamentals is not excusable. Not only did Cheika arrogantly make a point of refusing to study the opposition, he also encouraged his line coaches not to as well. That's unforgivable.

[TRIGON 4,783]

23 minutes ago, old dee said:

I have tribe of inlaws in NZ and all you ever hear is about the bloody All Blacks. Best event was them getting done by the poms and not even making the final. Two have tickets to the final, airfares and hotel booked months ago. 2019 has had its upsides.

Schadenfreude, darling schadenfreude...

[Demonstone 22,261]

Hey old dee, tell them they could cheer up by taking some Prozac and maybe making their own movie.

They could call it "Once Were Worriers".

 

[old dee 23,743]

29 minutes ago, demonstone said:

Hey old dee, tell them they could cheer up by taking some Prozac and maybe making their own movie.

They could call it "Once Were Worriers".

 

Or counting your chickens before they hatch.

[darkhorse72 1,901]

I don't follow Rugby, but part of their problem from a Rugby mate is that Australia wont play players that aren't in Australia.  So if someone goes say to Europe to play for better money etc and is top class they won't pick'em for the national team.  (Not sure if that has changed)

 

 

 

[Little Richard 6,261]

2 hours ago, old dee said:

I have tribe of inlaws in NZ and all you ever hear is about the bloody All Blacks. Best event was them getting done by the poms and not even making the final. Two have tickets to the final, airfares and hotel booked months ago. 2019 has had its upsides.

Would much rather the All Blacks in the final than the bloody Poms...

[old dee 23,743]

30 minutes ago, Luther said:

Would much rather the All Blacks in the final than the bloody Poms...

Don't you know any kiwis?

[Little Richard 6,261]

7 minutes ago, old dee said:

Don't you know any kiwis?

I do, but I find the Poms much worse. That may have something to do with living in London though.

[old dee 23,743]

2 minutes ago, Luther said:

I do, but I find the Poms much worse. That may have something to do with living in London though.

You should meet a few of my inlaws.

[monoccular 17,411]

On 10/28/2019 at 12:16 PM, jnrmac said:

Some snippets:

One of the first things we got right at Melbourne was cohesion from the top down.

The coach has to be given all the responsibility and authority. You can’t have a high-performance manager coming in on top of the coach. 

teams that win sports championships throughout the world are the best defensively.

 

Offence is talent, and defence is mentality.

Build a defence that no other team finds easy to break. It was our mantra at the ­Demons — be the team everyone hates playing. (we are the opposite!)

If you’re a behavioural-based team, your performance rarely drops. I think of Hawthorn and the Melbourne Storm. If you’re a talent-based, experimental team, you’ll have your good days when you beat one of the better teams. But it won’t last, and it will crack under pressure (very astute observation)

Offence is talent, and defence is mentality.

I like that one     Hard work and teamwork can make up for deficiencies in defence.

Build a defence that no other team finds easy to break. It was our mantra at the ­Demons — be the team everyone hates playing. (we are the opposite!)

Wasn't that Mark Neeld's mantra, that he couldn't execute?

Certainly 2019 we were the team that most looked forward to playing against - easy pickings.  That must never happen again.