35 minutes ago, rufus said:

These insights from Lewis seem to have tipped a few people over the edge. Hasn't it been obvious for years that what we've seen from the players this year is about par for the course from this club? There's been enough evidence over pretty much this century that the cultural issues run deeper than you'd think possible at pro sports level:

- Players deciding what they will and won't do during pre-season consistently over (at least) the last 10 years.
- Players delivering 186.
- Players delivering 148.
- Players delivering one of the most embarrassing halves of professional sport imaginable in the 2018 preliminary final.
- Many stories of the Melbourne Storm players commenting on the lazy and unprofessional approach of the MFC players.
- Many many off the record comments from opposition players and coaching staff on how pi$$ weak they see the collective MFC playing group to be.
- All the stories of the bizarre arrogance of a group of players that opposition clubs see as ripe for the picking with a hint of physicality.

And the main problem? There have been excuses made and excuses accepted for all of this. If the absolute heart of a club, which has to be it's supporter base, doesn't demand better then I just don't see how we're going to get afforded much better. It's seems clear that the playing group aren't showing a lot of pride to elevate themselves off their own bat.

I don't know how you change the culture of a supporter base. But I do know that I am way past having had enough of hearing stories of player divisions, or this player doesn't like playing in x or y position, or whatever else the players don't like about the MFC. I'd like a line in the sand moment. If there's something you don't like, and it's going to effect you in a way that culminates in a lack of desire to compete in a meaningful way for this club, then hand over your jumper and f*&k off. I really no longer care whether they're a perceived star or a first year player. It's all gone on for way too long.

Nice post, but lets get real - how on earth does the mentality of supporters have any effect whatsoever on the 22 blokes that go out and actually play the game every week? 

And what does "demand better" actually mean? Abusing them at games? Angrier posts on DL? Getting saty to go and have 1 on 1 convos with them all at training saying he demands better? 

Edited August 23, 20195 yr by Smokey

So very poor if the attitude was wrong & goes to the core to our culture & leadership issues. Leaders should have picked up the attitude issues!

5 hours ago, Demonsone said:

So very poor if the attitude was wrong & goes to the core to our culture & leadership issues. Leaders should have picked up the attitude issues!

Unless said leaders are just as much part of the problem.

Footy as much as any game is fought or lost between the ears. 

This is where we begin to lose it all.

On 8/21/2019 at 9:37 PM, Soidee said:

Big Max at the start of pre season should stand up in front of the group and tell them that he is in the prime of his career and does not want to waste another year with players who are not serious.  He deserves to be Captain and he will be totally wasted with his talent if this group does not take their careers to a new level.  

He should be appointed  sole captain. The current captains have shown their shortcomings for the role.

9 hours ago, Smokey said:

Nice post, but lets get real - how on earth does the mentality of supporters have any effect whatsoever on the 22 blokes that go out and actually play the game every week? 

And what does "demand better" actually mean? Abusing them at games? Angrier posts on DL? Getting saty to go and have 1 on 1 convos with them all at training saying he demands better? 

I am probably naive in thinking that the general feedback of the stakeholders can have influence in this setting. A place like DL is probably the most prominent platform for supporter feedback for the club. I would have imagined, much like in other sports around the world, that players and club officials are active online and interested in knowing what people are saying about them.

In your own work, if you deliver something that deep down you know isn't that great, but you hear through whatever channel it might be that your stakeholders loved it, wouldn't that influence the standard that you hold yourself to the next time you're delivering something?

As an isolated example, surely the fact that last year's prelim final seemed to be written off as 'just a bad day' amongst the majority of stakeholders was reflected in how it was treated by the club. I imagine if the same were served up by Collingwood or Essendon that the supporters would have been rightly [censored] off and the club would have received the message loud and clear. And that this in turn would have had some influence on the expectation of how the club worked to stop it from happening again. I'm not sure why the message doesn't get through at Melbourne. Or maybe the message is getting through and the message is "it's ok because we were tired and it'd been a long tough season, a performance like that was to be expected".

10 hours ago, rufus said:

These insights from Lewis seem to have tipped a few people over the edge. Hasn't it been obvious for years that what we've seen from the players this year is about par for the course from this club? There's been enough evidence over pretty much this century that the cultural issues run deeper than you'd think possible at pro sports level:

- Players deciding what they will and won't do during pre-season consistently over (at least) the last 10 years.
- Players delivering 186.
- Players delivering 148.
- Players delivering one of the most embarrassing halves of professional sport imaginable in the 2018 preliminary final.
- Many stories of the Melbourne Storm players commenting on the lazy and unprofessional approach of the MFC players.
- Many many off the record comments from opposition players and coaching staff on how pi$$ weak they see the collective MFC playing group to be.
- All the stories of the bizarre arrogance of a group of players that opposition clubs see as ripe for the picking with a hint of physicality.

And the main problem? There have been excuses made and excuses accepted for all of this. If the absolute heart of a club, which has to be it's supporter base, doesn't demand better then I just don't see how we're going to get afforded much better. It's seems clear that the playing group aren't showing a lot of pride to elevate themselves off their own bat.

I don't know how you change the culture of a supporter base. But I do know that I am way past having had enough of hearing stories of player divisions, or this player doesn't like playing in x or y position, or whatever else the players don't like about the MFC. I'd like a line in the sand moment. If there's something you don't like, and it's going to effect you in a way that culminates in a lack of desire to compete in a meaningful way for this club, then hand over your jumper and f*&k off. I really no longer care whether they're a perceived star or a first year player. It's all gone on for way too long.

Thanks Rufus

Hard not to agree with most of that.

If this club is still a shambles next year that will be it for me aftef 50 +years

1 hour ago, rufus said:

I am probably naive in thinking that the general feedback of the stakeholders can have influence in this setting. A place like DL is probably the most prominent platform for supporter feedback for the club. I would have imagined, much like in other sports around the world, that players and club officials are active online and interested in knowing what people are saying about them.

In your own work, if you deliver something that deep down you know isn't that great, but you hear through whatever channel it might be that your stakeholders loved it, wouldn't that influence the standard that you hold yourself to the next time you're delivering something?

As an isolated example, surely the fact that last year's prelim final seemed to be written off as 'just a bad day' amongst the majority of stakeholders was reflected in how it was treated by the club. I imagine if the same were served up by Collingwood or Essendon that the supporters would have been rightly [censored] off and the club would have received the message loud and clear. And that this in turn would have had some influence on the expectation of how the club worked to stop it from happening again. I'm not sure why the message doesn't get through at Melbourne. Or maybe the message is getting through and the message is "it's ok because we were tired and it'd been a long tough season, a performance like that was to be expected".

I hear what you're saying and it makes enough sense. 

And perhaps I'm the naive one, but if I'm a player or FD member I'm making a point to stay well clear of places like this. The internet and its users is a generally a very hostile place, and with the rise in it's use a rise in mental health issues have been correlated. I wouldn't be surprised if they are told to avoid places like DL specifically to be honest (especially when the chips are down a la season 2019). Feedback from anyone other than coaching staff is pretty useless to these guys. 

In the end they are professional athletes, and even though they may not appear professional right now - they are still a group young, highly tuned athletes who are focused on what is being drilled into them at training and on game day. These blokes jobs are hard enough physically and mentally, the last thing they need is to read the unhinged thoughts of a bunch of middle to late age tragics like us. 

With cameras following them around, people taking photos of them without consent when at the pub, endless interviews, media commitments and brand advertising they have to do, I would imagine the thought of going home and reading what people have to say about them when online isn't even on the radar. And nor should it. 

Should we expect more as fans? Absolutely, this has been the most disappointing season in recent memory for mine. I just hope lessons learnt this year will be addressed over the next 6 months. And for god sake - the rub of the green on the injuries front wouldn't hurt!!!