40 minutes ago, Grapeviney said:

It's Jewish land because the Jewish people originated there, thousands of years ago, and have maintained physical, cultural and religious ties to it ever since.

And just to further clarify, I don't use the term 'Promised Land' for any religious reasons; I like the phrase, just as I do the Land of Milk and Honey.

What about the claim by Jews like Shlomo Sand- Jewish Historian - and Arthur Koestler, Nobel Prize winning Jewish writer that the Ashkenazi Jews descend from a Turcic tribe called the Khazars???

30 minutes ago, Jara said:

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking, although it's hardly likely to happen. Could I suggest another scenario?

At present everybody's worried (quite rightly) about Chinese expansion to the north.    They've already got the Darwin port, vast parcels of land, growing military bases. Suppose, in the not too distant future, they were to ally themselves with the Aboriginal population of the NT (about 60,000 people - a quarter of the Territory's population, who've maintained "physical cultural and religious ties to the land")? 

 

By your logic, Grape, this alliance would be legally entitled to drive out the white inhabitants, cram them into the slums of Tennant Creek and shoot them when they demonstrate?

You use the term logic. I'm afraid the word is an alien species to defenders of Zionism. How else would you comprehend the ravings of Netanyahu or Trump????

3 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

. Have you ever had  your local pizza place blown to pieces?

God forbid, the local Pizza place gone. What a world scale tragedy of the first order.

Have you ever had your kid blinded by phosphorus bombs?

Our resident bigots on Demonland applaud this type of teaching.

 

Must watch.  In their own words.

Our resident Demonland bigots support these views.

 

3 hours ago, Jara said:

When I said "we", I meant the world. The establishment of Israel was one of the prime reasons for the current Muslim hostility towards the West, which threatens and degrades us all. When I say "we", I am sympathising with both the children shot in Gaza and the children being blown up in pizza places in Tel Aviv (and as a matter of fact, I have travelled on buses wondering if there's a suicide bomber on board - have travelled twice through much of the Middle East, very conscious of the fact that I was a Westerner. Haven't had any rockets fired at my house - have you?). 

 

Could I ask you a question? Do you agree with my basic premise: That the establishment of Israel on Palestinian land was a tragedy? 

 

Here's another: how do you think the arrival of millions of Jewish settlers in Palestine in the thirties and forties would have looked to you had you been a young Palestinian losing the land that his family had farmed for generations?

Muslims have killed other Muslims as well as infidels at a fierce rate for hundreds of thousands of years.

Have you got any evidence of a spike in Islamic killings, savageness or hostility towards the west since the establishment of Israel?

 

37 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Must watch.  In their own words.

Our resident Demonland bigots support these views.

 

You sure are digging them up now. What if I posted a thousand similar videos of atrocities committed by the IDF, or quotes from Israeli politicians calling for ...what the, ProDee, you will never desist from your catalogue of hatred and propaganda. Nor will I desist from pointing out that you are  just that,  a medium for hatred and propaganda. In the meantime, people are being slaughtered, have been since 1948. To people like you that means nothing. To  people with a sense of humanity this is an awful tragedy. Spreading propaganda and lies does not alleviate anything. All it does is to close and blind minds and hearts. Think again. The death toll is totally and absolutely disproportionate. Something is wrong here. You can't try to get away with continually making the victim the problem. People Ilan pappe describes as mental midgets are the real problem. People like you, ProDee, people like ET, to a lesser extent people like Grapeviney who simply regurgitates the lies and propaganda he's been inculcated with. 

Everybody needs to go through the process of ridding themselves of their inculcated prejudices. Just because you have grown up being told this is so, in the end, real humans  have to ask  the question, Why is this so? Is this really so? Why, if this is so do so many people suffer, why do so many people believe this is simply not so? I very much doubt you have ever gone through this process. Rather, I believe, you are happy and warm and comfortable living in that self-imposed igloo of ignorance and prejudice, an igloo built upon the foundation of the prejudices you were born and bred under. Good luck to you, PD, with the likes of you the world will never become a better place.

18 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Muslims have killed other Muslims as well as infidels at a fierce rate for hundreds of thousands of years

Christians have killed Christians for two hundred thousand years, I.E. since AD whenever the first christians started butchering each other.

The muslim faith began in the 7th Century. That means they've been killing each other and others for roughly 14 hundred years. Their death count pales beneath the Christian yoke of Hiroshima/Nagasaki, the murders and fatalities of the two 20th century world wars, the uncounted deaths from various USA invasions and wars, not to mention the millions killed by the Brits in India and all the other so-called Brit colonies...

In other words, Wrecker, hundreds of thousand of years is back to pre-history, way way long before the Muslims arose from Mecca.

I think either your calculator is calibrated by your anti-Muslim brain or  you are a mental midget. Which would you prefer?

1 hour ago, Wrecker45 said:

Muslims have killed other Muslims as well as infidels at a fierce rate for hundreds of thousands of years.

Have you got any evidence of a spike in Islamic killings, savageness or hostility towards the west since the establishment of Israel?

 

Hey Wrecker - I suppose we've all been killing each other for hundreds of thousands of years. 

Re your second point, no, I don't have those figures in my head and I'm too tired to look for them. But I'd have actually thought it was kind of obvious. Have I got my wires crossed? I thought all of those anti-Western Islamic groups cite the occupation of Palestine as one of the reasons for their hatred (along with invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc).

I don't want to be interpreted as giving any kind of support to those groups at all. I can't stand them. I find myself agreeing with Christopher Hitchens on this - he was a fierce critic of Islamo-Fascism, but he was also extremely critical of Israeli oppression of the Palestinians  (mind you he lost me at the end, when he came out in support of the invasion of Iraq)

 

I started this turn of the thread when I expressed my sadness at the killing of 100 unarmed protesters in Gaza. That's still the main point of it for me. I'm not anti-Israeli, and I'm certainly not anti-Semitic - I've got Jewish friends and I really liked many things about the country - I just wish it would stop being so brutal.     

2 hours ago, dieter said:

God forbid, the local Pizza place gone. What a world scale tragedy of the first order.

Have you ever had your kid blinded by phosphorus bombs?

No, but I do know the family of a 15-year-old Melbourne girl who was one of 15 people - most of them kids and teenagers - blown to pieces in a Jerusalem pizza restaurant in 2001. So yeh, it was a world-scale tragedy of the first order for them. The family of her murderer, who chose the venue in order to kill as many kids as possible, was paid US$20,000 in blood money for that heinous crime.  

Don't reply to this post - I'm sick of reading about your faux concern for all the victims of the world. 

And I don't want to read the rantings of a twisted, self-loathing Jew who acted as a defence attorney for the likes of Hezbollah, Hamas, and al-Qaeda. In future I will be deleting such posts.

I don't care if it's censorship, and I don't care if you think it's undemocratic, or unfair. 

If you don't like it, you can plss off somewhere else; god knows the internet is already full of such vile garbage. 

Conversations with John Anderson: Featuring Peter Baldwin

12 hours ago, dieter said:

Christians have killed Christians for two hundred thousand years, I.E. since AD whenever the first christians started butchering each other.

The muslim faith began in the 7th Century. That means they've been killing each other and others for roughly 14 hundred years. Their death count pales beneath the Christian yoke of Hiroshima/Nagasaki, the murders and fatalities of the two 20th century world wars, the uncounted deaths from various USA invasions and wars, not to mention the millions killed by the Brits in India and all the other so-called Brit colonies...

In other words, Wrecker, hundreds of thousand of years is back to pre-history, way way long before the Muslims arose from Mecca.

I think either your calculator is calibrated by your anti-Muslim brain or  you are a mental midget. Which would you prefer?

If your going to bang on about different nations invading and killing others why have you not included anything regarding the russian's slaughter of the ukraine people or the russian invasions of numerous other nations after the 2nd world war.

20 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

If your going to bang on about different nations invading and killing others why have you not included anything regarding the russian's slaughter of the ukraine people or the russian invasions of numerous other nations after the 2nd world war.

Fair enough, chuck them in as well. It is after all, the European way; didn't mean to be so selective.

20 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

No, but I do know the family of a 15-year-old Melbourne girl who was one of 15 people - most of them kids and teenagers - blown to pieces in a Jerusalem pizza restaurant in 2001. So yeh, it was a world-scale tragedy of the first order for them. The family of her murderer, who chose the venue in order to kill as many kids as possible, was paid US$20,000 in blood money for that heinous crime.  

Don't reply to this post - I'm sick of reading about your faux concern for all the victims of the world. 

And I don't want to read the rantings of a twisted, self-loathing Jew who acted as a defence attorney for the likes of Hezbollah, Hamas, and al-Qaeda. In future I will be deleting such posts.

I don't care if it's censorship, and I don't care if you think it's undemocratic, or unfair. 

If you don't like it, you can plss off somewhere else; god knows the internet is already full of such vile garbage. 

Kind words, ,wonderful insights, thank you so much Grapeviney, thank you so much...

20 hours ago, dieter said:

Fair enough, chuck them in as well. It is after all, the European way; didn't mean to be so selective.

I was just trying to suss out whether you were one of those leftist/socialist/communist types who quote all the propaganda they can get their hands on to denigrate the western world to justify their own beliefs whilst conveniently ignoring the atrocities of countries such as russia, china, north korea and others, all of which are not european.

1 hour ago, drysdale demon said:

I was just trying to suss out whether you were one of those leftist/socialist/communist types who quote all the propaganda they can get their hands on to denigrate the western world to justify their own beliefs whilst conveniently ignoring the atrocities of countries such as russia, china, north korea and others, all of which are not european.

I'm not - I abhor violence of any sort (as do most of us here) - call out bullies wherever I see them, be they Isis or the IDF  - I've published a few things about the Chinese plutocracy which make me worry whether I'll be able to go back there - as for the Russians - hate those kleptocratic thugs (as I write this I'm looking at the picture of a friend of mine who died on the MH17) - am really p'd off that the West lets them invest their ill-gotten gains here.

 

That said, it's often easier to criticise governments closer to us - we have more influence - makes you appreciate living in a democracy. Imagine trying to complain about China - what's the point? they'll be running the world in a few years 

 

PS I wouldn't tell the Russians they're not European - they get a bit sensitive about that

 

 

1 hour ago, drysdale demon said:

I was just trying to suss out whether you were one of those leftist/socialist/communist types who quote all the propaganda they can get their hands on to denigrate the western world to justify their own beliefs whilst conveniently ignoring the atrocities of countries such as russia, china, north korea and others, all of which are not european.

No. I'm not even a leftie type. The Stalin years are as bad as the Nazi years as far as the death count: some historians say substantially worse.China too was the victim of ideological purging. I think you need to be very careful about placing North Korea into that category, I think you really have to allow the facts to speak over the brainwashed propaganda that's taken over the brains of most of the western world. Did you know, for instance, that after the USA had finished with North Korea in the fifties, after using more bombs than were used during the entire second world war there were not two bricks on top of each other in the whole landscape called North Korea. Tell me, Drysdale, what was the cause of that Korean War? When answering, please keep in mind that the greatest war mongering nation in the world during the 20th century - they've been involved in a war every 2 and a half years since 1989 as well - told blatant lies to the world to justify all of them. Do you recall the bayoneting of humi cribs in Kuwait, do you remember the Gulf of Tonkin incident, do you remember the weapons of mass destruction???????

Just your everyday Western pro Hamas taxi driver.

 

Normal life now in Sweden.  But then comes along a leftist appeaser.

 

35 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Just your everyday Western pro Hamas taxi driver.

 

 

Creeping Sharia has 5 entries on snopes. Each one of them "False".

Source:

https://www.snopes.com/tag/creeping-sharia/

I do not have the time to examine this specific tweet, however given the 0/5 record above, I think that it too is probably incorrect.

 

 

34 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Normal life now in Sweden.  But then comes along a leftist appeaser.

 

 

Peter Sweden is a Holocaust and evolution denier.

Took 5 second of Googling.

 

 

 

Again, ProDee, you are consistently linking fake news and I will report both of these posts above as such.

8 minutes ago, Choke said:

 

Creeping Sharia has 5 entries on snopes. Each one of them "False".

Source:

https://www.snopes.com/tag/creeping-sharia/

I do not have the time to examine this specific tweet, however given the 0/5 record above, I think that it too is probably incorrect.

 

 

 

Peter Sweden is a Holocaust and evolution denier.

Took 5 second of Googling.

 

 

 

Again, ProDee, you are consistently linking fake news and I will report both of these posts above as such.

Hahaha

Do you think the girls and mums in the video even know Peter Sweden ?

You don't think many everyday Muslims in the West think you're kaffir ?  

Like everyone on the Left, you only care about digging dirt on the source rather than the actual content.  I couldn't give a rat's toss bag about Peter Sweden.  If he posts or shares a video with relevant content I'll post it.

The videos will keep coming, pal.

4 minutes ago, Choke said:

 

Creeping Sharia has 5 entries on snopes. Each one of them "False".

Source:

https://www.snopes.com/tag/creeping-sharia/

I do not have the time to examine this specific tweet, however given the 0/5 record above, I think that it too is probably incorrect.

 

 

 

Peter Sweden is a Holocaust and evolution denier.

Took 5 second of Googling.

 

 

 

Again, ProDee, you are consistently linking fake news and I will report both of these posts above as such.

He may be right about the evolution  (if Pro's anything to go by )

Just another day in France.  750 no go zones and counting...

 

Well said, Avi.  The radical leftists post in this thread.

 

Just another sermon at the Mosque.

But instead of the content, you know, the words from the imam, Joke will discredit the source.

There's no grey area.  The palestinians want the jews dead or gone.  Preferably dead.