Just reading an article on Peter Dutton's view on Christmas Carols in schools:

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/peter-dutton-calls-for-prochristmas-uprising-against-political-correctness-gone-mad-20161214-gtbj63.html

Unsurprisingly, he wants the carols, and is angry when a secular school doesn't sing them. That's fine, he's a Christian and he wants his religion to be prevalent. I don't agree with him, but I'm hardly surprised. This is something I've come to expect, and on the whole am not really annoyed with him.

What's really got my goat is this quote:

"Because the vast majority of Australian people want to hear Christmas carols. They want their kids to be brought up in a normal environment and they don't want to be lectured to by do-gooders who frankly don't practise what they preach in any case."

 

He's equating 'normal' with 'Christian', and I think that's really dangerous. Religious belief has been declining as a percentage of the population in Australia for years:

 

 

 

 

So I take issue when a politician's worldview centres on Christianity being 'normal'. Peter Dutton makes important policy decisions, and I think his skewed view of what constitutes 'normal' in Australian society can effect those decisions.

When a high profile politician makes a comment like that, it marginalises those who doesn't conform to his view of 'normal' society. It makes me really angry. Looking at that graph, about 60% or so of Australian's identify as some sort of Christian. 40% is a whole lot of society to lop into the 'not normal' bucket.

And he's elected to make decisions on our behalf? How can he possibly do so when he thinks 40% of the country isn't 'normal'. There are a lot of different types of Australians, but he seems to only be governing for some. I see this as a democratic issue. He can believe in a Christian God all he wants, but he needs to govern for the entire country, not just those who are like him.

It's not very 'conservative' of him either. One major feature of conservatism (and one I see value in) is self-determination. One's ability to make ones own choices with regards to religion is central to this. He's effectively casting aside those who chose a different path to his. Words matter. Words uttered by leaders matter more.

 

*puts on flame retardant cloak*

Do they know it's Christmas....on Manus Island Mr Dutton? 

17 hours ago, Choke said:

Just reading an article on Peter Dutton's view on Christmas Carols in schools:

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/peter-dutton-calls-for-prochristmas-uprising-against-political-correctness-gone-mad-20161214-gtbj63.html

Unsurprisingly, he wants the carols, and is angry when a secular school doesn't sing them. That's fine, he's a Christian and he wants his religion to be prevalent. I don't agree with him, but I'm hardly surprised. This is something I've come to expect, and on the whole am not really annoyed with him.

What's really got my goat is this quote:

"Because the vast majority of Australian people want to hear Christmas carols. They want their kids to be brought up in a normal environment and they don't want to be lectured to by do-gooders who frankly don't practise what they preach in any case."

 

He's equating 'normal' with 'Christian', and I think that's really dangerous. Religious belief has been declining as a percentage of the population in Australia for years:

 

 

 

 

So I take issue when a politician's worldview centres on Christianity being 'normal'. Peter Dutton makes important policy decisions, and I think his skewed view of what constitutes 'normal' in Australian society can effect those decisions.

When a high profile politician makes a comment like that, it marginalises those who doesn't conform to his view of 'normal' society. It makes me really angry. Looking at that graph, about 60% or so of Australian's identify as some sort of Christian. 40% is a whole lot of society to lop into the 'not normal' bucket.

And he's elected to make decisions on our behalf? How can he possibly do so when he thinks 40% of the country isn't 'normal'. There are a lot of different types of Australians, but he seems to only be governing for some. I see this as a democratic issue. He can believe in a Christian God all he wants, but he needs to govern for the entire country, not just those who are like him.

It's not very 'conservative' of him either. One major feature of conservatism (and one I see value in) is self-determination. One's ability to make ones own choices with regards to religion is central to this. He's effectively casting aside those who chose a different path to his. Words matter. Words uttered by leaders matter more.

 

*puts on flame retardant cloak*

think you are much too thin skinned on this issue, choke, and i'm a long-term confirmed atheist

enjoy xmas and don't waste time turning over pebbles

Dutton is a right wing liberal, so don't expect too much. 

Their attitude i "My Way or else"

Dutton along with Brandis is on a par with Peter Reith for my most despised Canberra List Clogger

https://brokenworldnews.com/2014/12/24/jesus-bummed-birthday-falls-on-same-day-as-christmas/

16 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Do they know it's Christmas....on Manus Island Mr Dutton? 

They don't care. They are muslims.......

23 hours ago, Choke said:

Just reading an article on Peter Dutton's view on Christmas Carols in schools:

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/peter-dutton-calls-for-prochristmas-uprising-against-political-correctness-gone-mad-20161214-gtbj63.html

Unsurprisingly, he wants the carols, and is angry when a secular school doesn't sing them. That's fine, he's a Christian and he wants his religion to be prevalent. I don't agree with him, but I'm hardly surprised. This is something I've come to expect, and on the whole am not really annoyed with him.

What's really got my goat is this quote:

"Because the vast majority of Australian people want to hear Christmas carols. They want their kids to be brought up in a normal environment and they don't want to be lectured to by do-gooders who frankly don't practise what they preach in any case."

 

He's equating 'normal' with 'Christian', and I think that's really dangerous. Religious belief has been declining as a percentage of the population in Australia for years:

 

 

 

 

So I take issue when a politician's worldview centres on Christianity being 'normal'. Peter Dutton makes important policy decisions, and I think his skewed view of what constitutes 'normal' in Australian society can effect those decisions.

When a high profile politician makes a comment like that, it marginalises those who doesn't conform to his view of 'normal' society. It makes me really angry. Looking at that graph, about 60% or so of Australian's identify as some sort of Christian. 40% is a whole lot of society to lop into the 'not normal' bucket.

And he's elected to make decisions on our behalf? How can he possibly do so when he thinks 40% of the country isn't 'normal'. There are a lot of different types of Australians, but he seems to only be governing for some. I see this as a democratic issue. He can believe in a Christian God all he wants, but he needs to govern for the entire country, not just those who are like him.

It's not very 'conservative' of him either. One major feature of conservatism (and one I see value in) is self-determination. One's ability to make ones own choices with regards to religion is central to this. He's effectively casting aside those who chose a different path to his. Words matter. Words uttered by leaders matter more.

 

*puts on flame retardant cloak*

It makes me really angry when the lefties/do-gooders/western haters force their views onto the mainstream.

There is outrage every year on this issue, because the majority are sick to death of being told not to celebrate something, because minorities might be offended.

I am atheist. Always have been. My kids were brought up to follow christian traditions, as have every generation of Australians to this point.

Modern Australia was founded by a christian country, and many of our laws are based on christian beliefs.

Lefties need to pull their heads in, and stop forcing the mainstream to adopt minority policies.

I am with Dutton. Long may he serve in parliament.

Edited December 16, 20168 yr by faultydet

On 16 December 2016 at 4:04 PM, faultydet said:

It makes me really angry when the lefties/do-gooders/western haters force their views onto the mainstream.

There is outrage every year on this issue, because the majority are sick to death of being told not to celebrate something, because minorities might be offended.

I am atheist. Always have been. My kids were brought up to follow christian traditions, as have every generation of Australians to this point.

Modern Australia was founded by a christian country, and many of our laws are based on christian beliefs.

Lefties need to pull their heads in, and stop forcing the mainstream to adopt minority policies.

I am with Dutton. Long may he serve in parliament.

Faulty you might want to read the follow up on this issue in The Age. The whole thing was a beat up, the school website shows they have had a number of Chritmas Carol events in recent weeks and no sign of any anti Christmas agenda. Oh and the Principal is a man, not a women as Hadlee claimed. Facts! Who needs them.

I wouldn't be surprised if the talkback caller to Ray Hadlee, who was from Dutton's electorate, might not have rung in by coincidence! 

What makes me angry about the right is that many of them seem to be in a constant state of outrage about something and the likes of Hadlee and Jones and politicians like Dutton love to fuel that outrage with ignorant hearsay from anonymous phone callers. It works a treat of course for the right's agenda to spread fear as Dutton got his headline with hic PC gone mad etc. 

 

Mate, for a start, it's the entire left wing agenda that gets my back up, not just one instance. Case in point is the greenie Australia Day thing in Freo.

 

 

Secondly, the male/female thing? Another leftie jump up about nothing. The teachers name could have been male or female, and they were simply guessing at his/her title, so they didn't need to say he/she throughout the entire story. 

 

The age is only worth reading, if I want something to shake my head at in exasperation.

 

Mate, I envy you for your closed mind, for your collaborationist acquiescence to everything our Anglo wise men have thrust on this nation. Where do you want to start: the Boer War, W/W 1, W/W 2. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq. Syria??? Just keep reading the herald Sun, just go keep believing the fascist propaganda that has brought the whole world literally to its barren knees.

2 hours ago, faultydet said:

Mate, for a start, it's the entire left wing agenda that gets my back up, not just one instance. Case in point is the greenie Australia Day thing in Freo.

 

 

Secondly, the male/female thing? Another leftie jump up about nothing. The teachers name could have been male or female, and they were simply guessing at his/her title, so they didn't need to say he/she throughout the entire story. 

 

The age is only worth reading, if I want something to shake my head at in exasperation.

 

Not one to be bothered with facts and figures I guess Faulty. 

And about the male, female thing? Yes they were guessing, Hadlee and Dutton, that is my point! They don't for a minute try to verify facts. They don't want to know about any facts. 

You should not guess about something that an anonymous caller has claimed and then prognosticate about the required solution! 

9 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Not one to be bothered with facts and figures I guess Faulty. 

And about the male, female thing? Yes they were guessing, Hadlee and Dutton, that is my point! They don't for a minute try to verify facts. They don't want to know about any facts. 

You should not guess about something that an anonymous caller has claimed and then prognosticate about the required solution! 

Bring back the boats earl?

14 hours ago, dieter said:

Mate, I envy you for your closed mind, for your collaborationist acquiescence to everything our Anglo wise men have thrust on this nation. Where do you want to start: the Boer War, W/W 1, W/W 2. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq. Syria??? Just keep reading the herald Sun, just go keep believing the fascist propaganda that has brought the whole world literally to its barren knees.

Firstly, get yourself a thesaurus, and learn the meaning of "literally" That is an appalling misuse of the word.

Facist propaganda - Yep, there we have it, proof positive of leftiness. Hey Hey Ho Ho, something westerns got to go!

On our knees. Yes, most western governments have been on their knees taking it up the kyber from lefty minorities. Keep an eye on Pauline, she is about to shake up the system in Victoria in a big way. Exciting times.

Ah, the joys of being a middle aged white man.

 

Edited December 18, 20168 yr by faultydet

Ah, it makes sense: I've just read you're a Queenslander. 

5 hours ago, dieter said:

Ah, it makes sense: I've just read you're a Queenslander. 

My oh my, why don't people care about the facts!!!!!

I'm Victorian born and bred.

Only moved to Queensland so I could mine coal.

Yeah, I know I'm bad.....

1 hour ago, faultydet said:

My oh my, why don't people care about the facts!!!!!

I'm Victorian born and bred.

Only moved to Queensland so I could mine coal.

Yeah, I know I'm bad.....

So you're not only a Queenslander, you're a Coal Miner as well.

My my Faultydet, how do you sleep at night? What, with all that heat and all that guilt floating in the beers....

I'm hoping to move up north one day myself. For a holiday maybe. Trouble is, it's full of Queenslanders. 

I do really believe that they actually DO put something into Queensland beer to make people vote for the likes of Joh and Pauline.

What's your opinion about that?

 

2 hours ago, dieter said:

So you're not only a Queenslander, you're a Coal Miner as well.

My my Faultydet, how do you sleep at night? What, with all that heat and all that guilt floating in the beers....

I'm hoping to move up north one day myself. For a holiday maybe. Trouble is, it's full of Queenslanders. 

I do really believe that they actually DO put something into Queensland beer to make people vote for the likes of Joh and Pauline.

What's your opinion about that?

 

Queenslanders.....

 

Taught to say "ay" at the conclusion of every sentence.

 

Still, they have lots of coal, and as a consequence, lots of work for someone with my skill set.

 

The beer is just ok. Prefer spirits myself. Don't normally drink at pubs. The conversation isn't my thing.

Might be something in the beer though, as many that I work with still think the labor party is the party for the working class man, and we all know that's a bit of a fib now, don't we.

No guilt here diets. Just innocently helping the supply of carbon dioxide for our beautiful trees, and steel for our warships....

 

Did you know coal is a vital ingredient in steel?

Edited December 18, 20168 yr by faultydet

40 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Queenslanders.....

 

Taught to say "ay" at the conclusion of every sentence.

 

Still, they have lots of coal, and as a consequence, lots of work for someone with my skill set.

 

The beer is just ok. Prefer spirits myself. Don't normally drink at pubs. The conversation isn't my thing.

Might be something in the beer though, as many that I work with still think the labor party is the party for the working class man, and we all know that's a bit of a fib now, don't we.

No guilt here diets. Just innocently helping the supply of carbon dioxide for our beautiful trees, and steel for our warships....

 

Did you know coal is a vital ingredient in steel?

Good talking to you Bro. When did you start following the dees? My catastrophe started at my grandmother's house in North Sunshine in September 1958. I turned on her television and watched this team getting beaten. I barracked for the loser. My daughter says that inclination has blighted my whole life.

43 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Queenslanders.....

 

Taught to say "ay" at the conclusion of every sentence.

 

Still, they have lots of coal, and as a consequence, lots of work for someone with my skill set.

 

The beer is just ok. Prefer spirits myself. Don't normally drink at pubs. The conversation isn't my thing.

Might be something in the beer though, as many that I work with still think the labor party is the party for the working class man, and we all know that's a bit of a fib now, don't we.

No guilt here diets. Just innocently helping the supply of carbon dioxide for our beautiful trees, and steel for our warships....

 

Did you know coal is a vital ingredient in steel?

By the way, steel for our warships is a nineteenth century anachronism. Warships can never defend a country as large as Australia. They only become useful in stopping refugees, most of whom our acquiescence to USA Colonial policies have created.

9 hours ago, faultydet said:

Firstly, get yourself a thesaurus, and learn the meaning of "literally" That is an appalling misuse of the word.

Facist propaganda - Yep, there we have it, proof positive of leftiness. Hey Hey Ho Ho, something westerns got to go!

On our knees. Yes, most western governments have been on their knees taking it up the kyber from lefty minorities. Keep an eye on Pauline, she is about to shake up the system in Victoria in a big way. Exciting times.

Ah, the joys of being a middle aged white man.

 

Glad to hear you are middle aged Faulty, as hopefully then you can see out your career digging coal in your existing mine and retire comfortably as I hear you guys get paid quite well for your efforts and maybe that might be due to some work done by your Union over the decades past?

Anyway my point is most of the newly discovered coal, oil and gas reserves have to stay in the ground unfortunately if civilisation as we know it is to survive and that includes Queensland! 

8 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Glad to hear you are middle aged Faulty, as hopefully then you can see out your career digging coal in your existing mine and retire comfortably as I hear you guys get paid quite well for your efforts and maybe that might be due to some work done by your Union over the decades past?

Anyway my point is most of the newly discovered coal, oil and gas reserves have to stay in the ground unfortunately if civilisation as we know it is to survive and that includes Queensland! 

Might shock you to know I was, for about 6 years, a delegate for the CFMEU in the mines. Helped negotiate 2 EBA's for the workers in the blasting company I worked for.

 

Clean coal. That's the future. (Wince, although I'm told it's something that is being worked on)

We have about 300 years worth of coal in Australia. Future governments won't throw that resource away easily.

 

 

8 hours ago, dieter said:

Good talking to you Bro. When did you start following the dees? My catastrophe started at my grandmother's house in North Sunshine in September 1958. I turned on her television and watched this team getting beaten. I barracked for the loser. My daughter says that inclination has blighted my whole life.

Born in '68. Only known the Dees. 

Old man started following them after moving as a kid from Sydney.

Thought he would support melbourne the city, and as such our family became Dees.

 

 

Warships including subs and aircraft are vital for defence of large countries. Will become even more important.as China gets increasingly aggressive and assertive.

Deterrence is defence also.

 

On 16/12/2016 at 4:04 PM, faultydet said:

It makes me really angry when the lefties/do-gooders/western haters force their views onto the mainstream.

There is outrage every year on this issue, because the majority are sick to death of being told not to celebrate something, because minorities might be offended.

I am atheist. Always have been. My kids were brought up to follow christian traditions, as have every generation of Australians to this point.

Modern Australia was founded by a christian country, and many of our laws are based on christian beliefs.

Lefties need to pull their heads in, and stop forcing the mainstream to adopt minority policies.

I am with Dutton. Long may he serve in parliament.

Except I didn't actually post on the schools issue.

I posted on Dutton's quote of what constitutes a 'normal environment'. I even said the carols thing isn't a big issue for me. I didn't tell anyone to not celebrate anything. Hell I'm an athiest and I don't get offended when some says Merry Christmas. Honestly not that big a deal.

Did you actually read my post? Or just assume I was a leftie getting angry because the right are complaining about carols? I wasn't.

 

DC's probably right. I'm likely to thin skinned on the issue. Just that I don't like Dutton's exclusionary definition of what constitutes 'normal', especially given the trend of reducing religious belief. Probably a non-issue for a lot of people. Made me angry was all.

On 16/12/2016 at 3:55 PM, faultydet said:

They don't care. They are muslims.......

not all of them

who wants to be 'normal', choke