Should the AFL lead on Social Issues

[stuie 7,374]

So if you guys that are seemingly against themed rounds don't see the point in them, why do you even care that they happen? Do you think they have a negative impact? Why not just leave it be for the positive impact they clearly have on others? I'm going to hazard a guess that the posters against themed rounds, particularly multicultural round and Indigenous round, are also the same posters who would bemoan "political correctness gone mad".

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by stuie

[Chris 2,892]

32 minutes ago, praha said:

We celebrate this every day. We don't need a round to celebrate it. I just don't get "multiculturalism" and what it means. I understand that those most vocal against it are literally racists, but I'm a first-generation Australia with the most Italian name out there and I just don't understand "multiculturalism". It's condescending, like as if we all have to be open and accept and embrace and engage with different cultures, when we don't. One thing I see about Australia is that we actually lack an identity because we are either embarrassed of Australian language and slang and traditions, or we're too focused on making other people feel comfortable, when the opposite is that many just don't care, and they engage with other cultures daily anyway without really thinking about it. 

That is not what I meant about issues. These issues persist, the round treats them as being incapable of a fix unless we as a society address them, when the reality is that successful Indigenous stars are walking proof that you can make something of yourself without having people pander and talking and being sensitive about them. Do you really think this round does anything but pander and speak to the already converted? My views on the issues that plague Indigenous communities haven't changed AT ALL because of this round.

I just find it fascinating that a sport so ruthless in its competitiveness, as well as both team and individual achievements, can move so far away from actually constructively addressing the issues you mention. The gap is widening, not shrinking, and honestly, I don't think the world of the white man saying, "We recognise you" is going to fix anything. Whether you like it or not, to make it, make noise, be a leader and inspire people, you need to have special qualities in this world. 

This "progressive" kumbaya pandering is something I find to be condescending. IMO, the fact Adam Goodes won two Brownlows is in and off itself proof that we don't need an Indigenous Round.

If you want to help these communities and the youth, we should be propping up those that excel at the highest level, and there are plenty of them. 

On the multiculturalism, what you have said is what should be celebrated. We do live in a society where we engage with various cultures and enjoy various cultures daily with out thinking about it. Many places around the world really struggle with this. Is it worth making a big fan fair of? Probably not, I really can take it or leave it.

You still puzzle me with the Indigenous round. How exactly is Goodes winning a Brownlow proof we don't need it, especially when he got booed out of the game because he said a few truths people didn't like?

You also mention the good Indigenous players as proof we don't need to pander to the Indigenous community, is that what you see this as, pandering to the Indigenous community? You then talk about leaders but ignore that these players are the leaders in the community and are looked up to, they can be the conduit to understanding of both sides and some of the players do a very good job at this. That is where the round comes into play, it provides these players with a platform and some focus on what they are trying to do. That can be very powerful and can lift awareness massively, that is what the recognise program is about. 

You comment about preaching to the converted may well be right, except where kids come into it. Kids look up to these players and some, not all, will not blindly follow their parents and will listen to what is being talked about. That is good for the future. 

[Chris 2,892]

35 minutes ago, stuie said:

So if you guys that are seemingly against themed rounds don't see the point in them, why do you even care that they happen? Do you think they have a negative impact? Why not just leave it be for the positive impact they clearly have on others? I'm going to hazard a guess that the posters against themed rounds, particularly multicultural round and Indigenous round, are also the same posters who would bemoan "political correctness gone mad".

 

They can have a negative impact if they over the top and tokenistic. I think the AFL is guilty of that in many senses. What ends up happening is that people walk away form the whole thing as a joke and we get no where. 

Just look at the environment debate. The environment debate used to be bout all sorts of things like water quality, salinity, biodiversity, habitat loss, endangered species etc etc. Then climate change came in and became part of the environment debate and eventually took most of the focus. Then people started to pull it apart by saying the models are wrong, the scientists will admit they are wrong and have never claimed they are right, yet people grab that they are wrong and that the scientists even say so so the whole thing is fiction. Add to that a carbon tax bought in on a lie and the population threw out the whole thing as a massive con. The problem is that now if you mention protecting the environment most people think of climate change and have bad memories of what went on (look at the environment policies of every party at the last election, barely a mention of anything but climate change). The problem here is that all the other issues are still going on and still need action but can no longer get public or government support as they are either now unknown or are lumped in with Julia's big mistake. We have gone backwards in a big way in protecting the environment since Howard left office. 

The same thing can happen with these rounds, all the complex issues get swept up in one big tokenistic event that either makes no difference or is derided by big chuncks of the population and all the issues go backwards not forwards. 

[stuie 7,374]

3 minutes ago, Chris said:

The same thing can happen with these rounds, all the complex issues get swept up in one big tokenistic event that either makes no difference or is derided by big chuncks of the population and all the issues go backwards not forwards. 

I disagree with this though Chris. I think any genuine attempts help, and in my opinion, any derision stems from people who would have already been at best indifferent and at worst against the concept itself. This is why I brought up the part of the population now screaming about "political correctness gone mad". The people spouting this line aren't people who were formerly open-minded and accepting, they are the people who now feel they need to voice their opposition to things like multiculturalism, gender equality and Indigenous issues because now that they are beginning to be taken seriously by more of the "mainstream" public it's actually starting to affect their lives, and they don't like it.

 

[Bossdog 2,002]

46 minutes ago, stuie said:

I disagree with this though Chris. I think any genuine attempts help, and in my opinion, any derision stems from people who would have already been at best indifferent and at worst against the concept itself. This is why I brought up the part of the population now screaming about "political correctness gone mad". The people spouting this line aren't people who were formerly open-minded and accepting, they are the people who now feel they need to voice their opposition to things like multiculturalism, gender equality and Indigenous issues because now that they are beginning to be taken seriously by more of the "mainstream" public it's actually starting to affect their lives, and they don't like it.

 

Stu....I don't think the average Australian cares where people come from

In the 60's It was the Greeks and Italians who immigrated.......70's and 80's it was the Vietnamese, after some years all have assimilated into main stream life here

Now it is the Africans.....Given time they will too.

I don't need the AFL to seperate different cultures or to tell me that I should appreciate where players or people come from.   I already know.

If they play for the MFC ....I love em.....if not I don't.    When is the white peoples round? It's a game of footy which people go to to forget about political bulls**t for a few hours.

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

When is the white peoples round?

Prime example of what I'm talking about.

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,739]

3 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

Stu....I don't think the average Australian cares where people come from

In the 60's It was the Greeks and Italians who immigrated.......70's and 80's it was the Vietnamese, after some years all have assimilated into main stream life here

Now it is the Africans.....Given time they will too.

I don't need the AFL to seperate different cultures or to tell me that I should appreciate where players or people come from.   I already know.

If they play for the MFC ....I love em.....if not I don't.    When is the white peoples round? It's a game of footy which people go to to forget about political bulls**t for a few hours.

Well said Boss

we go to the footy to forget all the shite just for a while

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

59 minutes ago, stuie said:

I disagree with this though Chris. I think any genuine attempts help, and in my opinion, any derision stems from people who would have already been at best indifferent and at worst against the concept itself. This is why I brought up the part of the population now screaming about "political correctness gone mad". The people spouting this line aren't people who were formerly open-minded and accepting, they are the people who now feel they need to voice their opposition to things like multiculturalism, gender equality and Indigenous issues because now that they are beginning to be taken seriously by more of the "mainstream" public it's actually starting to affect their lives, and they don't like it.

 

I think this is the point of contention for mine.

I don't think any of the AFL's themed rounds are GENUINE attempts to help.

They're marketing initiatives. If they were genuine, then they'd have some actual thought behind them, and there'd actually be follow through when presenters say things that are contrary to the inroads the AFL claims to make.

In another time, with another administration, the theme rounds might work. But the current lot have NFI.

[Bossdog 2,002]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Prime example of what I'm talking about.

 

Oh Stu.....Please....It was an example not meant to be taken literally.    I have a Scottish background.

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, Choke said:

I think this is the point of contention for mine.

I don't think any of the AFL's themed rounds are GENUINE attempts to help.

They're marketing initiatives. If they were genuine, then they'd have some actual thought behind them, and there'd actually be follow through when presenters say things that are contrary to the inroads the AFL claims to make.

In another time, with another administration, the theme rounds might work. But the current lot have NFI.

I think it's important to note that more happens in those rounds than just the games. The AFL spends that week having events, clinics, visits etc by teams and ambassadors to spread awareness and talk about the relevant issues. It might be missed when we mostly focus on what happens at games, but it's not missed by the people who experience that interaction during the week.

 

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

Oh Stu.....Please....It was an example not meant to be taken literally.    I have a Scottish background.

No no, please tell me more about how we need to raise more awareness about the plight of downtrodden middle class white people...

 

[Bossdog 2,002]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

No no, please tell me more about how we need to raise more awareness about the plight of downtrodden middle class white people...

 

We are a minority now.........(Joke Joyce.   Don't take it to heart)

[drdrake 3,134]

16 minutes ago, stuie said:

I think it's important to note that more happens in those rounds than just the games. The AFL spends that week having events, clinics, visits etc by teams and ambassadors to spread awareness and talk about the relevant issues. It might be missed when we mostly focus on what happens at games, but it's not missed by the people who experience that interaction during the week.

 

Stuie, not sure what local footy club our area that you belong to, but the clinics are about the clinic and increasing club brand awareness of that club. I have never heard and AFL player or official take about anything but there club and footy.  They certainly do it in front of the media but that is it.  Is it AFL responsibility no way, it is up to the family to educate and guide their kids.  Can AFL players help to influence kids on the right path, for sure 10-12 year old kids will listen and hopefully you can point a few on a good path.

What the AFL needs to do as per my previous post is help local clubs deal with the issues that face society.  Someone posted getting a good Junior coach is one off the most important people in your life.  They can have a very good positive influence on kids, they don't replace parents but they can certainly create a good positive environment that can hopefully influence the kids.  

[Sir Why You Little 36,739]

10 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

We are a minority now.........(Joke Joyce.   Don't take it to heart)

Careful Boss you will get him fired up all day. 

Stuie loves issues (My Way or else)....

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Stuie, not sure what local footy club our area that you belong to, but the clinics are about the clinic and increasing club brand awareness of that club. I have never heard and AFL player or official take about anything but there club and footy.  They certainly do it in front of the media but that is it.  Is it AFL responsibility no way, it is up to the family to educate and guide their kids.  Can AFL players help to influence kids on the right path, for sure 10-12 year old kids will listen and hopefully you can point a few on a good path.

What the AFL needs to do as per my previous post is help local clubs deal with the issues that face society.  Someone posted getting a good Junior coach is one off the most important people in your life.  They can have a very good positive influence on kids, they don't replace parents but they can certainly create a good positive environment that can hopefully influence the kids.  

I don't think anyone has suggested AFL players replace parents as educators, not sure where that's come from.

 

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Just now, stuie said:

No no, please tell me more about how we need to raise more awareness about the plight of downtrodden middle class white people...

 

I fell your lack of humility really rubs people like me the wrong way sometimes. When i say people like me i mean people who have only recently started to ponder their inner core beliefs, beliefs that were handed to us by our parents, that were shared by friends, family, colleges, everyone in our lives.  Unlike some i really try to push past my inner beliefs and see things from others point of view, as you may recall from the Adam Goodes thread a little while ago and more recently the Caro incident.  You belittle anyone that does not share your views, you put them down, insult them and make them feel excluded, outcast, so in a way, your tactless approach turns you into the very monster you are trying to expose, a bigot.  Please try harder to understand that people are human and have beliefs of their own from all different sort of backgrounds and it is not easy to change your way of thinking and acting when it is something that is part of you, and do not forget, intolerance goes both ways.

 

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, AzzKikA said:

I fell your lack of humility really rubs people like me the wrong way sometimes. When i say people like me i mean people who have only recently started to ponder their inner core beliefs, beliefs that were handed to us by our parents, that were shared by friends, family, colleges, everyone in our lives.  Unlike some i really try to push past my inner beliefs and see things from others point of view, as you may recall from the Adam Goodes thread a little while ago and more recently the Caro incident.  You belittle anyone that does not share your views, you put them down, insult them and make them feel excluded, outcast, so in a way, your tactless approach turns you into the very monster you are trying to expose, a bigot.  Please try harder to understand that people are human and have beliefs of their own from all different sort of backgrounds and it is not easy to change your way of thinking and acting when it is something that is part of you, and do not forget, intolerance goes both ways.

 

You're right, I do have an intolerance for racists and sexists. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Just now, stuie said:

You're right, I do have an intolerance for racists and sexists. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

And white middle class men.

 

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, AzzKikA said:

And white middle class men.

 

Now you're just being idiotic.

 

[Biffen 12,932]

11 minutes ago, stuie said:

Now you're just being idiotic.

 

 Do you think Demonland has room for another Village Idiot?

We might have a demarcation dispute.

[Sir Why You Little 36,739]

14 minutes ago, AzzKikA said:

And white middle class men.

 

Stuie doesn't like any one unless they are perfect citizens in all facets. 

His favourite book must be "The Stepford Wives"

[AzzKikA 2,371]

7 minutes ago, stuie said:

Now you're just being idiotic.

 

That whole post i wrote and you come back with some juvenile response, then insult me, and you want people to listen to you to help society see the error of their ways.  Why should people listen to you when you are no better than the rest of us?  So you are fine with the way you go about trying to lead others away from their prejudices?

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Just now, Biffen said:

 Do you think Demonland has room for another Village Idiot?

We might have a demarcation dispute.

They let you in so why not?

 

[Biffen 12,932]

3 minutes ago, AzzKikA said:

They let you in so why not?

 

More the merrier.

[daisycutter 29,429]

7 minutes ago, AzzKikA said:

That whole post i wrote and you come back with some juvenile response, then insult me, and you want people to listen to you to help society see the error of their ways.  Why should people listen to you when you are no better than the rest of us?  So you are fine with the way you go about trying to lead others away from their prejudices?

never mind azzman, " there are none so blind as those who will not see"