KICKING SKILLS

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,778]

I was full of admiration for the foot skills displayed by Paul Wheatley in the VFL GF. In exceptionally windy conditions he kicked long and accurately throughout the game. The AFL side missed his point kick-in skills this year. There are few better kicks in the AFL.

BUT, most Demonlanders are too young to remember back to the 50's and 60's. Barry Davis, Hugh Mitchell, Tassie Johnson,Dennis Marshall, Billy Goggin, Barry Price, Fred Swift, Jack Clarke, Wayne Richardson, John Lord, Geoff Southby, Colin Tully.......and many , many others, were absolutely BRILLIANT kicks. There was more emphasis on kicking long, or stab passing it fast than nowadays.

I was immensely proud, as an Australian football fan, of the incredible foot skills of our players. I watched the rugby players, and soccer goalies with disdain! Now THEY do drop kicks, and our guys don't.

I can't help but feel, with the talent pool we've got now, plus the time they've got to practise,ourAust. footy players would be able to do amazing things, if drop-kicks, stabs and torps were still part of the game.

I know that the conventional wisdom is that these kicks are not effective "percentage"play. But who's to know? Our guys are forbidden to do torps, but look how Collingwood lifts when Rocca gets on to one! Perhaps stab kicks are a potential answer to the zone on point kick-ins. They cover ground much faster than drop punts, so that "zoning" to within 5metres may not be close enough. Perhaps our great big talented muscly players of today could kick a drop 75metres....a good drop always went further than a punt. That's why full-backs used them. A75m. drop would put the "flood" into a frenzy! It 'd get there quicker, too.

Can older Demonlanders prompt my memory of some other great kicks. Apparently Fred Fanning had shots for goal from the centre line with torps!

[Whispering_Jack 29,779]

I was full of admiration for the foot skills displayed by Paul Wheatley in the VFL GF. In exceptionally windy conditions he kicked long and accurately throughout the game. The AFL side missed his point kick-in skills this year. There are few better kicks in the AFL.

BUT, most Demonlanders are too young to remember back to the 50's and 60's.

Bob "Tassie" Johnson was a sensational kick from full back. I can remember him kicking off at the MCG and regularly kicking it to the centre of the ground. And that was with a drop kick!

And just on Paul Wheatley. I know he was being hawked around in the trade week but I'm glad he's still at the club. He can still be of value if he can stay injury free and I'm looking forward to him slotting through a few 9 pointers in the nabcup!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Peter Hudson was truly uncanny with a flat punt. A freak.

As for false hope, I remember in 1971 at a waterlogged Waverley Park against the Swans, John Tilbrook came on half way through the game and his first kick with the now sodden cake of soap must have travelled at least 60 metres. However, it was all down hill from there.

[deanox 9,898]

i think with the whole full time thing there is no reason why al players shouldnt be able to kick off both feet and kick over 50 m on their prefered...

i understand some players may struggle for distance due to physical realities, but with a 3-4 month preseason, im sure if players spent 10 minutes after every session working on kicking with their opposite foot they would have it soon enough...

i have no problem with players working to perfect techniques such as banana, torp and would like to see the drop kick and stab pass make a comeback, if a player can use them effectively and execute them properly.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,778]

Come on older Demonlanders.....jog my memory of the great kicking exponents of yesteryear!

Do you agree with the conventional wisdom that the only kicks worth practising and using are drop-punts and "check-sides"?

[AlphaDee 17]

I started watching footy in the mid 60s.

From what I remember, players didn't drop kick much in June/July except for full-backs because the grounds were generally soft and muddy. As soon as it started to warm up, however, many players brought out their drop-kicks. Some used it extremely well in general play like Terry Waters of the pies.

I don't remeber many drop kickers at the MFC although I particularly remember Max Walker drop kicking out from full-back after a point, probably when resting in the back pocket. I think Biffen used to drop kick in as well. Biff would also run the ball out after a point, bouncing it several times and sometimes almost to the centre before launching a long punt to half-forward.

One intersting point to note is that the last great exponent of the stab pass, Barry Price, used it to deliver fast and pin-point passes to Peter McKenna who I think was the first great exponent of the drop-punt.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,778]

AlphaDee,I don't remember Terry Waters being a great exponent of the drop kick on the run, but he did do it, as did nearly all players.(as evidenced in footage of the '64GF). Brian Dixon was a short kick, but a prolific kick-winner. He did drops in good conditions. So did Ron Barassi. If you didn't kick drops, you weren't regarded as a good kick!

John Ronaldson of Richmond won the '67 GF with two long drop kick goals from the Members boundary line.Paul Vinar of Geelong could kick a drop 70yds from full-back, but did the odd "grubber".

Polly Farmer did drops in general play, as well as from marks and frees. Clyde Laidlaw and Stewie Spencer did beautiful drop kicks.

Garry Hardeman could kick 65metre torps with either foot.....unique skills. Bobby Skilton could kick drops with his right foot as well as his preferred left foot.

As Rhino pointed out, Peter Hudson was amazingly accurate with the flat, non-swinging , punt.The best kick for goal I've seen, including Peter McKenna.

Tony Ongarello had the yips so much kicking for goal, he resorted to a place-kick from 15yds. out in the early 60's.

Barrie Vagg slotted long angle goals with torps, as did Daicos........if only he'd been around in the drop and stab days!

It was rare for players to be unable to use their non-preferred foot in those days, though wrong-hand handballing was a poorly developed skill.

[AlphaDee 17]

Wasn't Ron Barassi the first coach to ban his players from drop-kicking?

[Brocky For President 0]

i would love to see a few more players haveing a crack at the big torp i love watching rocca when he does it

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,778]

Wasn't Ron Barassi the first coach to ban his players from drop-kicking?

Probably, but he used the drop occasionally in the fifties and very early sixties. He wasn't a great kick, but an effective one.

[Slartibartfast 17,190]

Come on older Demonlanders.....jog my memory of the great kicking exponents of yesteryear!

Do you agree with the conventional wisdom that the only kicks worth practising and using are drop-punts and "check-sides"?

Billy Barrot was pretty handy.

Drop kicks are hard to do. They therefore have a high chance of error. They are not used now for a reason. Todays game is all about possession.

It also takes longer to kick a drop as the ball has further to travel. In todays high pressure tackling environment this is a huge disadvantage.

The drop kick is dead.

[old55 23,393]

Billy Barrot was pretty handy.

Drop kicks are hard to do. They therefore have a high chance of error. They are not used now for a reason. Todays game is all about possession.

It also takes longer to kick a drop as the ball has further to travel. In todays high pressure tackling environment this is a huge disadvantage.

The drop kick is dead.

I think those beautiful kickers of yesteryear stood out because there were so many shocking kickers.

Agreed the drop kick and stab pass offer nothing over the drop punt except uncertainty. Players need to concentrate effort on the drop punt off both sides. It's a disgrace if they are not proficient on their non-preferred.

I agree that the "banana" is an important skill for goal kickers and it's they need to be able to kick it off both sides - set shots from the boundary are common enough. I think the torp is a third skill worth thinking about putting some time into. There is the rare occurrence of the after the siren shot from 60m when it could be useful. But really how often does it happen?

[davey_magik 1]

It frustrates me how we never use the torp.

When its wet (i.e the Saints game) just pump the damn thing long to a forward one-out.

[CarnTheDees 52]

They are not used now for a reason.

A secondary reason in the changing of football boots. The older style boots had much stronger toes, allowing good power to be generated in a drop kick. Today's softer boots allow for better comfort and performance with all the running required in the modern game, but make it a lot more difficult to execute a drop kick well.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

While todays boots do not assist a drop kick, the drop kick was fading as kick in the 1960's because of its unreliability. Barassi saw it as a player and nailed it when he coached at Carlton.

Old makes a valid point that the general standard of kicking was far less than today...a combination of the risk in certain kicking styles (eg torpedo and spiral punts) and better kicking techniques today.

FWIW, Hardeman was hot and cold as a kick. Often played football in the peak of his career up forward and had days when he could not hit the side of a barn.

I do recall that [censored] Clay was a very good kicks.

The last drop kicking dinosaur I saw play VFL football was Paul Goss (son of the legendary Norm Goss at Port.) Stocky player that drop kicked everything. I recall in 1973 at the MCG against Hawthorn (I think) Paul Goss had two set shot for goal and tried drop kicks from 40 to 45 out. Fluffed both so badly he never played VFL again.

He went back to the VFA and kicked drop kicks there until he retired.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,778]

The last drop kicking dinosaur I saw play VFL football was Paul Goss (son of the legendary Norm Goss at Port.) Stocky player that drop kicked everything. I recall in 1973 at the MCG against Hawthorn (I think) Paul Goss had two set shot for goal and tried drop kicks from 40 to 45 out. Fluffed both so badly he never played VFL again.

He went back to the VFA and kicked drop kicks there until he retired.

Sounds a bit like Kent Kingsley with his drop-punts.

Good point about the boots, Rhino.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,778]

A great example of why the torpedo should be practised and encouraged in specific situations was Jason Gram's torp in the dying moments of last Fri's` game v the Dogs. No time left, 1 point down, and the ball in the back line. Best tactic?? Longest kick possible...a torp, hoping for a forward to mark. Sure enough, Reiwoldt marked, and fell short with his goalshot by an inch. Logical thinking nearly won the match.. A flat ban on torps, and they would have lost instead of drawing......season over!

Perhaps Reiwoldt should have torped............

[CHAMP 347]

Apparently Fred Fanning had shots for goal from the centre line with torps!

At one stage there were moves afoot to get a Fanning drop kick from the centre of the MCG ratified. Was a seconds game and seems it easily cleared the fence after going through for a behind. The claimed distance was 110 yards.

[BrownlowBruce 1]

nick davis kicked one of the best kicks ive seen goal from about 60m+ when he was playin for collingwood.... u can prob find this footage on youtube

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,778]

"a Fanning drop kick"

Apparently torps were his specialty!

But in his 18/1 in round 18 at the junction Oval in 1947, the one behind was from 20 yds out directly in front!(not drop!)

[Bobby McKenzie 2,383]

I was full of admiration for the foot skills displayed by Paul Wheatley in the VFL GF. In exceptionally windy conditions he kicked long and accurately throughout the game. The AFL side missed his point kick-in skills this year. There are few better kicks in the AFL.

BUT, most Demonlanders are too young to remember back to the 50's and 60's. Barry Davis, Hugh Mitchell, Tassie Johnson,Dennis Marshall, Billy Goggin, Barry Price, Fred Swift, Jack Clarke, Wayne Richardson, John Lord, Geoff Southby, Colin Tully.......and many , many others, were absolutely BRILLIANT kicks. There was more emphasis on kicking long, or stab passing it fast than nowadays.

I was immensely proud, as an Australian football fan, of the incredible foot skills of our players. I watched the rugby players, and soccer goalies with disdain! Now THEY do drop kicks, and our guys don't.

I can't help but feel, with the talent pool we've got now, plus the time they've got to practise,ourAust. footy players would be able to do amazing things, if drop-kicks, stabs and torps were still part of the game.

I know that the conventional wisdom is that these kicks are not effective "percentage"play. But who's to know? Our guys are forbidden to do torps, but look how Collingwood lifts when Rocca gets on to one! Perhaps stab kicks are a potential answer to the zone on point kick-ins. They cover ground much faster than drop punts, so that "zoning" to within 5metres may not be close enough. Perhaps our great big talented muscly players of today could kick a drop 75metres....a good drop always went further than a punt. That's why full-backs used them. A75m. drop would put the "flood" into a frenzy! It 'd get there quicker, too.

Can older Demonlanders prompt my memory of some other great kicks. Apparently Fred Fanning had shots for goal from the centre line with torps!

Who could ever forget the great Stuart Spencer's LONG raking drop kicks? Geoff Tunbridge had the ugliest kick I have ever seen, but boy,his kicks always managed to wobble between the goal posts much to the disgust of our opponents.

[CHAMP 347]

"a Fanning drop kick"

Apparently torps were his specialty!

But in his 18/1 in round 18 at the junction Oval in 1947, the one behind was from 20 yds out directly in front!(not drop!)

The Torpedo may or may not have been his preferred kick but the one I refer to was definitely a drop kick.

Fanning 105.5m drop kick

[Jarka 767]

Anyone else remember Lyon's torp from inside the square in the wet to get a goal?

[Tassie Devil 28]

Another factor in the demise of the drop kick could be the smaller size of the ball used nowadays.

I remember listening to an interview many years ago with Thorold Merret (spelling?) who told how the ball manufacturers were making balls smaller than in previous times.

The reasoning was that when the captains were choosing the ball before the game the smaller balll would inevitably be chosen because it felt better in the hands. He said the balls being used nowadays (some 20+ years ago at least) were the same size as those used in underage football some years earlier.

I try the odd drop kick when playing with my kids - it's much easier to execute one properly with the larger balls than say the size 2 used in U9 footy.

[Deemonic 7]

Anyone else remember Lyon's torp from inside the square in the wet to get a goal?

Yep. Was in the 88 prelimanary final at Waverley. We went beserk in the 3rd quarter and this was one of the goals!!