In a discussion about whether Jones should have made the AA squad, you commented on how people who think Jones is at the same level as Dangerfield, Ablett, Selwood and Pendlebury were wearing MFC glasses.

Whether Jones is at that level is irrelevant to whether he should have made the AA squad. You've admitted as much by saying Ellis, who made the AA squad, isn't at that level.

It's relevant to a discussion of Jones' wider standing in the AFL generally, and yes, he's not at that level. But it's not relevant to whether he should have made the squad.

Ok, so obviously you did miss the point about there being different levels. Read my post again champ.

Definitely should have been in the squad. Had a better year than some included. Also if he is ranked second in total disposals and first in total effective disposals it just doesn't make sense to me. I believe an error was made.

If theres an upside....should he have been in contention? for sure. He's there abouts, but the AA is not an absolute. Nor does it really matter as such.
ask any player what matters

Can we get something straight here cos it's a faulty point that keeps getting brought up...

Nathan Jones is second for TOTAL disposals.

He is ninth for average disposals.

This is an important point to note.

Toby Greene averages more than Jones and he's not in the squad either. Stats aren't everything.

But he needs to be closer than a certain number of other players. There's only a certain amount of spots.

Yes, and that certain amount of spots caters beyond the absolute elite level you referred to.

This is turning into head against a brick wall exercise. You understand the point.

Yes, and that certain amount of spots caters beyond the absolute elite level you referred to.

This is turning into head against a brick wall exercise. You understand the point.

Far out.... You STILL aren't getting it.

Yes, it does go beyond those super elite players and stretches out to players who have been ranked as better than Jones.

It's not that hard. We love him, he's our champion, he's our best player and a very very good AFL player, but he's not as good as we like to think he is.

Ok, so obviously you did miss the point about there being different levels. Read my post again champ.

You said 'the cold hard fact is he isn't up to the same standard as the midfield greats of the AFL. He's not far off, but if you think he's on the same level as Pendlebury, Ablett, Selwood, Dangerfield and the like then you're not looking at it without your MFC glasses on'.

Where in that have you said 'there are only a certain number of spots and in 2014 Jones didn't deserve one?'.

You didn't.

But he needs to be closer than a certain number of other players. There's only a certain amount of spots.

That's right. But he doesn't need to be at the same level as Ablett to make the squad of 40, which you've admitted, which again begs the question of why you felt the need to state that he's not at that level.

I'm aware that this is boring everyone else, and you and me, so I apologise for going on about it. But I really am just standing up for Jones in the face of irrelevant comments in circumstances in which I think he had a great year and was deserving at least of making the initial 40. You don't need to resort to your usual standard of name-calling (e.g. 'champ'), especially where here I think you're up the proverbial.

Noboby is as good as Pendlebury and no one will ever be as good as Ablett, Jones is as good as the rest.Goodnite

You said 'the cold hard fact is he isn't up to the same standard as the midfield greats of the AFL. He's not far off, but if you think he's on the same level as Pendlebury, Ablett, Selwood, Dangerfield and the like then you're not looking at it without your MFC glasses on'.

Where in that have you said 'there are only a certain number of spots and in 2014 Jones didn't deserve one?'.

You didn't.

That's right. But he doesn't need to be at the same level as Ablett to make the squad of 40, which you've admitted, which again begs the question of why you felt the need to state that he's not at that level.

I'm aware that this is boring everyone else, and you and me, so I apologise for going on about it. But I really am just standing up for Jones in the face of irrelevant comments in circumstances in which I think he had a great year and was deserving at least of making the initial 40. You don't need to resort to your usual standard of name-calling (e.g. 'champ'), especially where here I think you're up the proverbial.

That wasn't the post I was talking about and you KNOW it.

Now you're going into typical Demonland territory or deliberately ignoring posts that don't suit your argument.

I said there's different levels, and if other players who are not on the same level as Danger, Ablett etc are still on a level above Jones then that's just how it works.

So stop playing little internet games with ignoring posts that don't suit your point. It's weak.

You need to stop thinking it's an insult to Jones and a conspiracy and everyone else must not watch footy as much as you, cos that's not reality.

Oh and if you think "champ" is name calling then you really are living up to your weak standard set by your agenda fitting efforts.

Jones is at a level all of his own. This argument that he is not in the same league/ level of others in more successful clubs is without merit. He's at the very top level.

Ranked 1st in total effective disposals in 2014 AFL. That's effective disposals lads. He delivers the ball effectively more than everyone in the AFL.

You have to be very very good to achieve that in our team, especially when most of our players cant even get the ball. Jonesy put it lace out time and again he carries this side.

I have watched all but 3 AFL games this year and as I said in my earlier post JONES should be in the 40 man Squad, I did not have him making my final AA team but I certainly have him in the squad of 40. He is ahead of ELLIS, WARD and LIBBA. Some have said he hasn't been in the best players all season, don't let the last 9 weeks of our season as a side overall cloud your judgement he was regularly throughout the season talked about and I suggest you go through the round by round coaches and media votes.

He has lead from the front and it is not his fault he is in the side he currently is, if anything it is testament to his efforts and the way he has carried the side is certainly enough to gain him the recognition for squad selection. I certainly don't judge him with rose coloured glasses and have marked him harshly in Demonland votes due to the high standards he sets. for the record my AA team is

B: SMITH McKENZIE HOOKER

HB: MALCESKI TALIA SWALLOW

C: HEPPELL ROCKLIFF BOAK

HF: GREY RIEWOLDT FYFE

F: BALLANTYNE FRANKLIN BRUEST

R: JACOBS, SELWOOD, KENNEDY

I/C: LEWIS, ROUGHEAD, PARKER, PRIDDIS

So whilst JONES misses out so do guns who have had good years in ABLETT(Injury), PENDLEBURY, BEAMS & RYDER due to Roughie being used as a pinch hitter

Noboby is as good as Pendlebury and no one will ever be as good as Ablett, Jones is as good as the rest.Goodnite

Ridiculous comment.

So Jones is as good as:

Selwood, Fyfe, Boak, Kennedy, Franklin, Roughead....

Take the MFC goggles off people.

This isnt about good or bad per se...its about what the AA brigade consider to be.

and ppl get knickers in knots

move on

Yes, it does go beyond those super elite players and stretches out to players who have been ranked as better than Jones.

Precisely. So you get it, and your earlier comment about him not being at that elite level was irrelevant in the context of this discussion. Let's move on.

Jones is at a level all of his own. This argument that he is not in the same league/ level of others in more successful clubs is without merit. He's at the very top level.

Ranked 1st in total effective disposals in 2014 AFL. That's effective disposals lads. He delivers the ball effectively more than everyone in the AFL.

You have to be very very good to achieve that in our team, especially when most of our players cant even get the ball. Jonesy put it lace out time and again he carries this side.

You're twisting stats again.

He is first for total sure, but he is SIXTH for average, which is the more important way of looking at it.

Precisely. So you get it, and your earlier comment about him not being at that elite level was irrelevant in the context of this discussion. Let's move on.

No, it wasn't. Are you seriously not getting it after all this time? It's not irrelevant, he's not in that elite catergory, and then there are other players who are also not elite that are above him.

You're twisting stats again.

He is first for total sure, but he is SIXTH for average, which is the more important way of looking at it.

Twisting! FMD how about throwing Dangerfield and Greene into a discussion about whether Jones deserves a spot in the AA squad over Ellis

and for the record this is the 2014 AA Squad and IMO he has Dangerfield covered for 2014

Twisting! FMD how about throwing Dangerfield and Greene into a discussion about whether Jones deserves a spot in the AA squad over Ellis

and for the record this is the 2014 AA Squad and IMO he has Dangerfield covered for 2014

Dangerfield isn't in the squad this year.

Maybe actually read some more posts to see why Greene was brought up in the context of people using stats to say who should be in the squad.

No, it wasn't. Are you seriously not getting it after all this time? It's not irrelevant, he's not in that elite catergory, and then there are other players who are also not elite that are above him.

Okay, last attempt.

ThIs is the comment I responded to originally:

Love the bloke, is easily our best player, clearly our heart, but the cold hard fact is he isn't up to the same standard as the midfield greats of the AFL. He's not far off, but if you think he's on the same level as Pendelbury, Ablett, Selwood, Dangerfield and the like then you're just not looking at it without your MFC glasses on.

Point me towards the part where you acknowledge players who "are not elite but are at the level above him".

You list four "midfield greats" and are essentially dismissing Jones' omission on the basis that he is not at their level. That's why I've said it is an irrelevant point in the context of squad selection, because it is. He doesn't need to be at their level.

Dangerfield isn't in the squad this year.

Maybe actually read some more posts to see why Greene was brought up in the context of people using stats to say who should be in the squad.

Keep digging that hole deeper Stuie

Point me towards the part where you acknowledge players who "are not elite but are at the level above him".

Which earlier comment? That Jones wasn't on the same level as Dangerfield?

Follow me here if you can... Maybe, just maybe there's different levels... Possibly even more than 2... Maybe Ellis was considered above Jones, but not above Dangerfield... Hmmmmmm, see how that works?

Keep digging that hole deeper Stuie

You didn't go and read to have a clue what you're trying to talk about did you? You just decided to go for the insult rather than realize you're commenting on things without understanding any of the context.... Ugh....

Jones is at a level all of his own. This argument that he is not in the same league/ level of others in more successful clubs is without merit. He's at the very top level.

Ranked 1st in total effective disposals in 2014 AFL. That's effective disposals lads. He delivers the ball effectively more than everyone in the AFL.

You have to be very very good to achieve that in our team, especially when most of our players cant even get the ball. Jonesy put it lace out time and again he carries this side.

This is what I admire so much about our boy - he has to do it all on his own. No back-up, protection, etc..

You didn't go and read to have a clue what you're trying to talk about did you? You just decided to go for the insult rather than realize you're commenting on things without understanding any of the context.... Ugh....

I read from start to finish the problem with you Stuie is when you get put on the spot you throw something else into the argument, you use stats when it suits you (and not just on this thread) it's pretty clear to me and most Demonlanders you just keep going on and on until people have better things to do, which I have now so Slan abhaile

they are the players he is competing against for a spot.

I'm pretty sure they said on 3AW tonight that the squad hasn't been chosen that way this year - to fill positions.

They've picked the best 40 in the league, not a balanced team sort of thing with 6 backs, 6 forwards x midfielders etc