Nathan Jones not named in AA 40

[Mac7 309]

The same AFL rankings that have him as the 104th player in the overall standings.

Stats aren't everything.

Love the bloke, is easily our best player, clearly our heart, but the cold hard fact is he isn't up to the same standard as the midfield greats of the AFL. He's not far off, but if you think he's on the same level as Pendelbury, Ablett, Selwood, Dangerfield and the like then you're just not looking at it without your MFC glasses on.

Agree Pendelbury, Ablett, Selwood, Dangerfield are a class above.

The 40 man squad is a chance to pick simply the 40 best players in the league for a given year.

Eddie Betts, Tom Lonergan, Callan Ward, Brandon Ellis, Tom Liberatore, Harry Taylor etc simply have not had better years than Jones.

The fact is Jones is easily in the top 40 players this year, however he plays for Melbourne, so he was overlooked

Edited September 2, 2014 by Mac7

[old dee 23,788]

Who said he is on that level? Completely irrelevant to a discussion about whether he should make the squad of FORTY. Is Ellis a great? Is Ward a great?

His omission doesn't surprise me so it doesn't actually bother me as much as hearing our own supporters stil downplay his ability because of the jumper he wears.

If he isn't good enough to make the squad, what more outside of moving mountains does Jonesy need to do?

It will be interesting to see how he goes in the B and F tomorrow . I will be surprised if he wins it this year.

[DoreenDee 59]

I love jonesy as much as all dees supporters do and should but a midfield spot in the AA is the hardest spot to get into. There's only '3' midfield posistions available plus wings and they even throw mids onto the flanks now! And as much as I love jonesy you can name 8-10 better mids than him.

[titan_uranus 25,016]

Jones' team and season ought have no bearing whatsoever on whether or not he makes AA.

Whether or not he'd work his way onto Hawthorn or Geelong's list is also not relevant.

It's about whether or not he was one of the 40 best players (or however may midfielders they pick in the squad) in 2014.

He may or may not have been, but he had a better 2014 than Ellis, Beams, Brodie Smith, and IMO Burgoyne too.

If those players are being considered AA material, Jones should be too.

Which midfielder would you drop out of the squad of 40 for him? Hasn't had a good enough year to sneak in. Surprised Dunn didn't get a look in, although his last 6 weeks weren't that great either.

Ellis, Beams, Burgoyne. I think Brodie Smith plays half-back but him too.

Some might say it's a line ball, but ask any supporter outside of us and the Dogs and Libba would get pick 8 times out of 10.

It's not a popularity contest. In fact, that's the problem with AA at the moment. Rioli and Naitanui over previous years have been picked for their flashes and their excitement, not because they've been consistently stand-out players all year.

Not sure that I'd be'd giving Heppell a gong. Possibly picked because KB is jealous of his hair.

Are you kidding? Heppell has been amazing this year. Absolutely amazing.

Many just refuse to admit this. Jones was best afield maybe once, this year against Richmond. And that's a maybr.

I love the bloke, but he's a good not great player in a bad side. Champion Demon, but not one of the top 40 in the land.

Harsh reality.

How many times was Brandon Ellis best on ground this year? Or Beams? Brodie Smith? Tom Lonergan?

It's not about how many times you were best on ground. If it were, you'd make it based on a season of 3 or 4 superstar games and playing 18 other crap games. That's not how it works. It's about consistency through 2014, and Nathan Jones fits that description in spades.

He'd struggle to be in the Hawks best 22. Gets the ball a lot but provides little run and simply isn't damaging enough. Great midfielders influence a match no matter how bad a team is. If was as great as many here think he'd have taken matches like Brissie, Bulldogs, Saints by the balls. He doesnt. I really love Jonesy and want nothing more than for him to earn a premiership trophy, but hes no superstar. It takes watching a lot of footy to know this.

Having him as your best player (by far) is *not* a good thing.

It's not Jones' fault he can't win games off his own back. He doesn't have much support.

Mitchell, Pendlebury, Selwood etc. can pick their sides up and lift them mainly because they have lift-able sides. Jones does not.

And at any rate, again, AA selection isn't, nor should be, based on wins. It's not a team award.

The same AFL rankings that have him as the 104th player in the overall standings.

Stats aren't everything.

Love the bloke, is easily our best player, clearly our heart, but the cold hard fact is he isn't up to the same standard as the midfield greats of the AFL. He's not far off, but if you think he's on the same level as Pendelbury, Ablett, Selwood, Dangerfield and the like then you're just not looking at it without your MFC glasses on.

Why does he have to be the same level as Pendlebury, Ablett, Selwood or Dangerfield to be considered AA?

[stuie 7,374]

Who said he is on that level? Completely irrelevant to a discussion about whether he should make the squad of FORTY. Is Ellis a great? Is Ward a great?

His omission doesn't surprise me so it doesn't actually bother me as much as hearing our own supporters stil downplay his ability because of the jumper he wears.

If he isn't good enough to make the squad, what more outside of moving mountains does Jonesy need to do?

It's not irrelevant, they are the players he is competing against for a spot.

Face some hard facts 'Landers, it's not because of the jumper he wears, it's because there are better midfielders around. Simple as that.

It's no slight on Jones, we're not "downplaying his ability", that is the reality of it. No conspiracies here, grow up.

[P-man 13,366]

It will be interesting to see how he goes in the B and F tomorrow . I will be surprised if he wins it this year.

I'll be surprised if he doesn't win it. Tyson the only other one with half a sniff. Jones has been clearly the best player this year. Again.

[stuie 7,374]

Why does he have to be the same level as Pendlebury, Ablett, Selwood or Dangerfield to be considered AA?

Really? You seriously don't understand why?

[P-man 13,366]

It's not irrelevant, they are the players he is competing against for a spot.

Face some hard facts 'Landers, it's not because of the jumper he wears, it's because there are better midfielders around. Simple as that.

It's no slight on Jones, we're not "downplaying his ability", that is the reality of it. No conspiracies here, grow up.

Yes it is irrelevant because it's not a squad of ten, it's a squad of forty. He is competing against the likes of Ellis and Liberatore., not just Ablett and Selwood.

It's not reality. If Ellis is a better midfielder or has had a better year than Jones I'll eat my hat.

[titan_uranus 25,016]

Really? You seriously don't understand why?

You seriously think that Brandon Ellis is on the same level as Dangerfield (who didn't make AA)?

[Tatu 416]

explain the ridicule ? or is it just your disappointment ?

Jones is easily in the top 40 players in the league and deserves to be listed here.... but in a selfish kind of way, I'm glad he is under the radar... The less attention he gets in the media, means its less likely he'll be poached... I know that big clubs will be circling anyway, but it just feels safer...

[P-man 13,366]

I love jonesy as much as all dees supporters do and should but a midfield spot in the AA is the hardest spot to get into. There's only '3' midfield posistions available plus wings and they even throw mids onto the flanks now! And as much as I love jonesy you can name 8-10 better mids than him.

We're not talking about the final 22. We're talking about the squad of 40.

[stuie 7,374]

Yes it is irrelevant because it's not a squad of ten, it's a squad of forty. He is competing against the likes of Ellis and Liberatore., not just Ablett and Selwood.

It's not reality. If Ellis is a better midfielder or has had a better year than Jones I'll eat my hat.

You seriously think that Brandon Ellis is on the same level as Dangerfield (who didn't make AA)?

It's hard for us to hear, I get it, I feel the pain too, but Nathan Jones is not one of the best 40 players in the league.

[old dee 23,788]

I'll be surprised if he doesn't win it. Tyson the only other one with half a sniff. Jones has been clearly the best player this year. Again.

Dunn would have polled well this season for one, we will know in 24 hours

[beelzebub 23,364]

We're not talking about the final 22. We're talking about the squad of 40.

But you get in ( or not ) on where you play. or thereabouts. He's a mid...our best

[titan_uranus 25,016]

It's hard for us to hear, I get it, I feel the pain too, but Nathan Jones is not one of the best 40 players in the league.

It's not a list of the competition's best 40 players.

It's a squad of the 40 best players in 2014, of which Nathan Jones was one.

And again, do you believe Brandon Ellis is on the same level as Dangerfield? Or the other players you mentioned?

Edited September 2, 2014 by titan_uranus

[old dee 23,788]

Yes it is irrelevant because it's not a squad of ten, it's a squad of forty. He is competing against the likes of Ellis and Liberatore., not just Ablett and Selwood.

It's not reality. If Ellis is a better midfielder or has had a better year than Jones I'll eat my hat.

Salt and pepper P-man?

Sorry I could not help myself

[beelzebub 23,364]

It's not a list of the competition's best 40 players.

It's a squad of the 40 best players in 2014, of which Nathan Jones was one.

And again, do you believe Brandon Ellis is on the same level as Dangerfield? Or the other players you mentioned?

No its not,.......its just a list...its made up... There are no hard and fast rules.

I understand the disappointment many have for Jones though really its in many ways Dee supporters vicariously grasping at some form of plaudit.

Funny how many take this almost personally. Jones is just as good today as he will; be tomorrow. None of this matters

[stuie 7,374]

It's not a list of the competition's best 40 players.

It's a squad of the 40 best players in 2014, of which Nathan Jones was one.

And again, do you believe Brandon Ellis is on the same level as Dangerfield? Or the other players you mentioned?

Clearly Ellis is not on the same level as Dangerfield, but he doesn't have to be, he just has to be considered better than Jones to get a spot head of him.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

I must admit I'm not as shocked as others. Given the level of midfield talent and our team's record, I knew Jones getting in would be a bit of a stretch. He tries his guts out, is incredibly consistent, but his season hasn't been at the level of more damaging, match-winning players.

[titan_uranus 25,016]

No its not,.......its just a list...its made up... There are no hard and fast rules.

I understand the disappointment many have for Jones though really its in many ways Dee supporters vicariously grasping at some form of plaudit.

Funny how many take this almost personally. Jones is just as good today as he will; be tomorrow. None of this matters

I don't mean to suggest that making the AA squad is important, or relevant, or that it would impact Jones in any way.

I'm simply standing up for a player I think had a fantastic year.

I'd make similar arguments for Pearce Hanley, who is not one of the AFL's best 40, but whose 2014 was better than many players listed in the squad.

Clearly Ellis is not on the same level as Dangerfield, but he doesn't have to be, he just has to be considered better than Jones to get a spot head of him.

Right. So your earlier comment was irrelevant.

It obviously comes down to opinion as to who had the better 2014, but it's not a consideration of who the best 40 players in the AFL are. Nathan Jones may not be better than a whole bunch of players, but his 2014 was at a level that IMO should have put him in the squad.

[stuie 7,374]

Right. So your earlier comment was irrelevant.

It obviously comes down to opinion as to who had the better 2014, but it's not a consideration of who the best 40 players in the AFL are. Nathan Jones may not be better than a whole bunch of players, but his 2014 was at a level that IMO should have put him in the squad.

Which earlier comment? That Jones wasn't on the same level as Dangerfield?

Follow me here if you can... Maybe, just maybe there's different levels... Possibly even more than 2... Maybe Ellis was considered above Jones, but not above Dangerfield... Hmmmmmm, see how that works?

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Clearly Ellis is not on the same level as Dangerfield, but he doesn't have to be, he just has to be considered better than Jones to get a spot head of him.

Ellis over Dangerfield is really just a positional thing. Prioritising an outside mid/flanker over a legit mid who there are already plenty of in the side. Also, Ellis has exceeded expectations, came out of nowhere, therefore stood out more, whereas Dangerfield, while still having a really good season, slightly underperformed

[titan_uranus 25,016]

Which earlier comment? That Jones wasn't on the same level as Dangerfield?

Follow me here if you can... Maybe, just maybe there's different levels... Possibly even more than 2... Maybe Ellis was considered above Jones, but not above Dangerfield... Hmmmmmm, see how that works?

In a discussion about whether Jones should have made the AA squad, you commented on how people who think Jones is at the same level as Dangerfield, Ablett, Selwood and Pendlebury were wearing MFC glasses.

Whether Jones is at that level is irrelevant to whether he should have made the AA squad. You've admitted as much by saying Ellis, who made the AA squad, isn't at that level.

It's relevant to a discussion of Jones' wider standing in the AFL generally, and yes, he's not at that level. But it's not relevant to whether he should have made the squad.

[P-man 13,366]

Which earlier comment? That Jones wasn't on the same level as Dangerfield?

Follow me here if you can... Maybe, just maybe there's different levels... Possibly even more than 2... Maybe Ellis was considered above Jones, but not above Dangerfield... Hmmmmmm, see how that works?

Stu, you know the point being made. Your comment about him not being on the same level as the "midfield greats" as you termed them is irrelevant because he doesn't need to be in order to make the squad.

[stuie 7,374]

Stu, you know the point being made. Your comment about him not being on the same level as the "midfield greats" as you termed them is irrelevant because he doesn't need to be in order to make the squad.

But he needs to be closer than a certain number of other players. There's only a certain amount of spots.