WELCOME TO THE MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB - CHRISTIAN PETRACCA

[Slartibartfast 16,050]

If anyone wants a laugh head over to the Saints bigfooty.

They have gone from calling him their saviour to rubbishing him and calling him fat and useless LOL

That's about as fickle as the Demonland thread on Sam Frost. He went from someone that wasn't worth a trade (we'd pick him up in the PSD for nothing) to someone who was better than James Frawley.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

That's about as fickle as the Demonland thread on Sam Frost. He went from someone that wasn't worth a trade (we'd pick him up in the PSD for nothing) to someone who was better than James Frawley.

Not quite. Wanting to pick someone up for free in the PSD does not = not worth a trade, and I don't think anybody said he was better than Frawley.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

That's about as fickle as the Demonland thread on Sam Frost. He went from someone that wasn't worth a trade (we'd pick him up in the PSD for nothing) to someone who was better than James Frawley.

Who were those fickle and silly group-thinkers?

Can you show me a quote?

[Slartibartfast 16,050]

Who were those fickle and silly group-thinkers?

Can you show me a quote?

Yes.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37395-welcome-to-the-melbourne-football-club-sam-frost/page-9

And onward.

I'm surprised you couldn't do this yourself, but then again, perhaps not.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Yes.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37395-welcome-to-the-melbourne-football-club-sam-frost/page-9

And onward.

I'm surprised you couldn't do this yourself, but then again, perhaps not.

i didn't think so. No "Frost is better than Frawley". The truth is such a hindrance when asserting superiority over the peoples of Demonland. The grimy little groupthinkers.

[DeeZee 6,889]

i didn't think so. No "Frost is better than Frawley". The truth is such a hindrance when asserting superiority over the peoples of Demonland. The grimy little groupthinkers.

I'm supporting Jabberwocky on this, too many on this site have that pathetic holier than though attitude.

We are all fellow demon supporters, some peoples efforts to sound superior only drags them down to school yard level.

[Whispering_Jack 28,097]

Yes.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37395-welcome-to-the-melbourne-football-club-sam-frost/page-9

And onward.

I'm surprised you couldn't do this yourself, but then again, perhaps not.

I followed the link expecting to see some evidence of "groupthink" about Sam Frost as a player and in particular, to find anything remotely resembling the hysterical about face of many Saintsational posters over McCartin's selection at # 1 instead of Petracca. Instead, I found some vigorous debate centred more on whether or not the deal struck for Frost was a good one for the club. Like some at the time, I thought we had possibly given away too much for the player but the outcome in terms of who we picked at 40 and 53 looks good to me at the moment. Of course, we won't know for some time.

You really need to ditch this groupthink line. It means little in this context, does nothing to add to debate and anyway it's not borne out in the discussion you provided by way of example.

[nutbean 8,837]

I will suggest that Frawley ( who had some good games dotted with some games where he didn't go nearly hard enough) was absolutely maligned by supporters on this site based on his protracted contractual situation. Not to hard to replace and won't be missed. I expect to be shouted down by the "Frawley was a cancer on the club" brigade.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

No nutbean - you are merely suffering a form of 'confirmation bias', through which you seek to construe all comments as either supporting or going against your own personal prejudice on this issue.

I think everyone here viewed Frawley as one of our most important, required players.

But the subtleties and nuances of the debate (eg, his leadership role at the club, the likely compensation etc) seem to have been lost on you, and conveniently you've blended it all together to assert a position that doesn't actually reflect the comments that various posters made in relation to this issue.

[nutbean 8,837]

I think everyone here viewed Frawley as one of our most important, required players.

RE-read the Frawley thread again and tell me if you would still like to maintain this position.

edit - interesting thread - read the first five pages...then go to the middle of the thread...then go to the end of the thread. He apparently was much required at the beginning of the thread - by the middle when he still hadn't signed there was great shift and many suggested that we would be better off without him and by the end he was no loss at all.

There was some support that pick 3 made him going worthwhile but I beleive that many of the negative views of him were coloured because he refused to re-sign and the expectation was that he was going.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

The shift nutbean describes is just a collective adjustment to an unpleasant but increasingly evident reality. I think we got Pick 3 for Frawley as part of a backroom understanding between PJ and GMcL over the provisional pick we were denied, incidentally.

And "groupthink" is actually a technical term from social psychology that has never been used accurately on this forum, as far as I'm aware.

[nutbean 8,837]

The shift nutbean describes is just a collective adjustment to an unpleasant but increasingly evident reality.

Spot on .

Thread successfully hijacked so I will leave it at that. My one zillion posts in the aforementioned thread makes my position clear.

[rpfc 27,662]

RE-read the Frawley thread again

Nah.

[Generation dee 1,336]

RE-read the Frawley thread again and tell me if you would still like to maintain this position.

edit - interesting thread - read the first five pages...then go to the middle of the thread...then go to the end of the thread. He apparently was much required at the beginning of the thread - by the middle when he still hadn't signed there was great shift and many suggested that we would be better off without him and by the end he was no loss at all.

There was some support that pick 3 made him going worthwhile but I beleive that many of the negative views of him were coloured because he refused to re-sign and the expectation was that he was going.

Would be interesting to see the link between those changing views of Frawley, against his output on field as the year progressed.

As it stands, he left to chase his personal dreams of an afl premiership, we were handsomely rewarded and allowed us to take the player titled in this thread, along with Angus brayshaw.

Now that we have seen footage of our compensation, it's fair to say this has turned into a win-win situation for club and player. I suspect this, along with the Dom Tyson trade, prove that in the current climate, there can be multiple winners arising from free agency/ trading and perhaps we all need to relax if we face with the same scenario again in seasons coming.

Unless it's nathan Jones. A club can not afford to lose a player more so than Jones and Melbourne. However I don't see that being an issue.

[nutbean 8,837]

Now that we have seen footage of our compensation, it's fair to say this has turned into a win-win situation for club and player.

I would caution anyone to suggest that any draft pick is a win until there some runs on the board.

I am cautiously optimistic with the current draft picks with caution being the operative word.

Many first round draft picks notoriously do not live up to their footage. This is not just a syndrome that has befallen our club but all clubs - unfortunately our club has had failed draft picks more than most.

Sorry Angus, but pick 3 has been particularly bad with the only true star being Judd. Dusty is very good - Griffin - great and poor.Here is my optimism - we may have the best no 3 at our club since Judd - and that is Tyson.

[Slartibartfast 16,050]

I followed the link expecting to see some evidence of "groupthink" about Sam Frost as a player and in particular, to find anything remotely resembling the hysterical about face of many Saintsational posters over McCartin's selection at # 1 instead of Petracca. Instead, I found some vigorous debate centred more on whether or not the deal struck for Frost was a good one for the club. Like some at the time, I thought we had possibly given away too much for the player but the outcome in terms of who we picked at 40 and 53 looks good to me at the moment. Of course, we won't know for some time.

You really need to ditch this groupthink line. It means little in this context, does nothing to add to debate and anyway it's not borne out in the discussion you provided by way of example.

Thanks for your input.

Can you show me where I used "groupthink" in this thread?

Frost went from someone we wanted to a terrible trade because we paid too much to someone who was really good all pretty much following what happened. The point I was making was that as The Saints are now rationalizing McCartin over Petracca we did pretty much the same with our picks and the Frost thread is a good example.

You really need to stop telling me to drop groupthink particularly if I don't use the word or the concept in a thread. I accept that you don't think groupthink exists here. I do. I can live with our differing opinions.

[Whispering_Jack 28,097]

Thanks for your input.

Can you show me where I used "groupthink" in this thread?

Frost went from someone we wanted to a terrible trade because we paid too much to someone who was really good all pretty much following what happened. The point I was making was that as The Saints are now rationalizing McCartin over Petracca we did pretty much the same with our picks and the Frost thread is a good example.

You really need to stop telling me to drop groupthink particularly if I don't use the word or the concept in a thread. I accept that you don't think groupthink exists here. I do. I can live with our differing opinions.

Thanks for your input as well - as for "groupthink"

(a) you use it often and in an inappropriate context, and

(b) you used it in this thread when you responded to jabber after he asked you for an example of it.

Happy to differ with you on this because he debate you produced in your evidence was sober and even if there was some rationalisation it bore no resemblance to the wrist slashing and emotional 180 degree turns noticed on the Saints' thread. You picked a poor example to use.

Incidentally, I think the Saints did well in the draft and their fans should be happy with the outcome.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Frost went from someone we wanted to a terrible trade because we paid too much to someone who was really good all pretty much following what happened.

According to who? Just the vibe?

[nutbean 8,837]

According to who? Just the vibe?

actually according to the thread.....

Edited December 4, 2014 by nutbean

[ThreeOneSix 953]

Frawley was a solid and reliable defender.

But he was a limited footballer, a poor kick and an average decision maker.

The Dunn Show managed to surpass Frawley in the space of a year, I'd take Dunn before Frawley.

To lose Frawley and pick up Brayshaw is a magnificant result.

MFC has been fortunate, luck fell our way when GWS taken Scully off our hands as well.

[Slartibartfast 16,050]

(b) you used it in this thread when you responded to jabber after he asked you for an example of it.

.

I never used the word in this thread. Jabber used the word "group-thinkers", I didn't.

[mordja 187]

Any chance the bickering between the usual suspects could find its way to another thread and someone might post on topic?

[nutbean 8,837]

Thanks for your input as well - as for "groupthink"

(a) you use it often and in an inappropriate context, and

(b) you used it in this thread when you responded to jabber after he asked you for an example of it.

Happy to differ with you on this because he debate you produced in your evidence was sober and even if there was some rationalisation it bore no resemblance to the wrist slashing and emotional 180 degree turns noticed on the Saints' thread. You picked a poor example to use.

Incidentally, I think the Saints did well in the draft and their fans should be happy with the outcome.

This is one the definitions on groupthink....

Rather than critically evaluating information, the group members begin to form quick opinions that match the group consensus. Groupthink seems to occur most often when a respected or persuasive leader is present, inspiring members to agree with his or her opinion.

It may be a stretch ( no pun intended) but the group members are posters on here and the "respected or persuasive leader" and "group concensus" in my opinion is the media ( the likes of Cardona and Paige and other journo's ) who quite accurately predict the top 10 of each draft each season and tell us how wonderful they are all, only to be proven incorrect in actuality . Going back to the Judd/Hodge/Ball draft there has not been a draft since where there hasn't been a bust in the top 3 draft picks.

So here is the critical information that has not been evaluated. Given the data from all those drafts - there is at least a 33% chance that one of McCartin, Petracca or Brayshaw will be a bust. The amount of people lauding our wonderful performance in the draft and how we got it right based on write ups in the papers fail to factor in the one in three chance that one of our top two picks has a fair chance of being decidedly average. Absolutely we should be excited but to use expressions like "we nailed it" when the boys drafted have an AFL resume of zero astounds me.

If you dont think it matches the description of groupthink then fine but I will then go with "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it". If history does repeat itself and we are the recipients stay tuned for posters in about 2 years flaying Taylor and Viney for passing up on Lever or Laverde or some other champion that got through to pick 44 when one of Petracca and Brayshaw turn out to be meh.

Edit - See post 772 - Frawley is a solid and reliable defender. Swapping Frawley for Brayshaw is a magnificent result. Is it really ? He hasn't played one game yet and could turn out to be Xavier Ellis taken at 3..... Then how magnificent is it ?

[jabberwocky 2,301]

actually according to the thread.....

The whole thread says this...?

"That's about as fickle as the Demonland thread on Sam Frost. He went from someone that wasn't worth a trade (we'd pick him up in the PSD for nothing) to someone who was better than James Frawley."

Or is that just what BB has summarised as the thinking of the group?

BB's point was to equate the silly people on the saints forum to Demonlanders in general, perhaps even including himself.

Perhaps we could just agree that all footy forum users as a group are fickle.

Edited December 5, 2014 by jabberwocky

[nutbean 8,837]

Perahps we could just agree that all footy forum users as a group are fickle.

Not all but your pretty well on the money with this statement !