What does any of the above have to do with leadership?

Premiership Captain does have whiff of leadership about it does it not?

That's being a good player, not a good leader. Plenty of douchebags have successful careers, doesn't mean they're not pricks.

Are we living in a parallel universe? I can't stand him but please don't tell me that he doesn't inspire his team. You only have to look at them without him. And I have watched enough games where he has turned the tide on his own. Lets have a little perspective.

Anyway, back on Carlton...

I recall in recent years many people lauding Judd for his leadership and I could never get my head around it.

Yes, head leads by example. He sets an amazing example.

But there's so much more to leadership than that, and I think Judd falls down in a lot of those areas.

Heroic and spectacular acts on the field are just that.

Others may get a lift from these acts, but I don't see that as providing great leadership.

That's just playing footy.

Malthouse now discussing Carlton on FC as being the quietest footy club he's even been at, would seem to be testament to that.

That and maybe also their recruiters being shy of selecting another loudmouth troublemaker like Fevola.

Besides heroic, spectacular and setting an amazing example (your words) what would you like him to do as a matter of interest?

Besides heroic, spectacular and setting an amazing example (your words) what would you like him to do as a matter of interest?

There's a lot more to leadership than that, you either get it or you don't.

There's a lot more to leadership than that, you either get it or you don't.

Well De Bono, let's hear it.

General Machsy?

General Machsy?

simple, I would follow Hodge into battle. judd could brush my shoes. thats about it. I think it would be called the 'R' word

Gimme Jnr MaC ahead of judd as leader.

Are we living in a parallel universe? I can't stand him but please don't tell me that he doesn't inspire his team. You only have to look at them without him. And I have watched enough games where he has turned the tide on his own. Lets have a little perspective.

No, I don't think we are. Let's not forget they weren't exactly world killers with him, either. Yes, he can turn the tide of a football game. I call that being an outstanding footballer, not necessarily an outstanding leader.

i'd argue you can't be a premiership captain without being a leader to some extent, i'll give you an example, my boss is a massive Carlton supporter, last year on the bye week the blues were given an optional training the first day, one player turned up, guess who it was, my boss went to training to watch one bloke get out there.

being a duel brownlow medalist means you have some good habbits and standards, this is another example of leadership, he is a role model for the younger players at training and so on, this is how a brownlow medalist carries himself,

captain of two different clubs to me says someone thinks he's a decent leader.

Actually, if he was a good leader he wouldn't have been there on his own. Others would have followed his example.

Actually, if he was a good leader he wouldn't have been there on his own. Others would have followed his example.

imo, there's a lot of figjam spread thick all over judd

How do you know they didn't chase him?

More importantly, who on Carlton's list would you happily trade Boyd for?

Come on! Think!

I'd say GWS looked at the options Carlton offered and would have just laughed.

I'd say GWS looked at the options Carlton offered and would have just laughed.

If Carlton were serious they could have offered enough to get a deal done, Gibbs and their first rounder, Kruizer and their first rounder, noone on their list is good enough to have been immune when a key power forward was on the market.

There's a lot more to leadership than that, you either get it or you don't.

Maybe you should care to enlighten us if what you think a great leader looks like and the attributes that he/she possess.

If Carlton were serious they could have offered enough to get a deal done, Gibbs and their first rounder, Kruizer and their first rounder, noone on their list is good enough to have been immune when a key power forward was on the market.

From all the hype based around young Tommy I don't think that either of those trades would have gotten the deal done.

I just don't rate anyone on Carlton's list. It could be the fact (and most likely is) that I am blind-sided by my hatred of them but there is no one, other than Marc Murphy, who I would really want. With Murphy as well, I'd only like him as the second/third midfielder as he isn't good enough to be a teams number 1 man and he is definitely not as good as Carlton believe he is.

As for offering Kreuzer, they have done better with Mumford.

And as for Gibbs.... weak as water with some good skills. The kids they have already offer more than him

From all the hype based around young Tommy I don't think that either of those trades would have gotten the deal done.

I just don't rate anyone on Carlton's list. It could be the fact (and most likely is) that I am blind-sided by my hatred of them but there is no one, other than Marc Murphy, who I would really want. With Murphy as well, I'd only like him as the second/third midfielder as he isn't good enough to be a teams number 1 man and he is definitely not as good as Carlton believe he is.

As for offering Kreuzer, they have done better with Mumford.

And as for Gibbs.... weak as water with some good skills. The kids they have already offer more than him

I'd have offered Murphy for trade for boyd certainly, Mick needed to understand that it was a one step back two step forward type situation

I'd have offered Murphy for trade for boyd certainly, Mick needed to understand that it was a one step back two step forward type situation

Surely he would be the one with the most currency but thats a big call Sassy. It would rip the heart out of a lot of players and supporters seeing there so called 'star' and captain being thrown on the trade table.

How do you think we would react if Roos came out and said Nathan Jones will be traded at the end of this season for a key position player with lots of "potential"

Surely he would be the one with the most currency but thats a big call Sassy. It would rip the heart out of a lot of players and supporters seeing there so called 'star' and captain being thrown on the trade table.

How do you think we would react if Roos came out and said Nathan Jones will be traded at the end of this season for a key position player with lots of "potential"

I understand your point but different situation, they have no key forward targets going forwards, totally lacking in key position players, we have a pretty strong spine so our recruiting has been much better in that sense and we don't need to take drastic steps to give our side structure,

Carlton won't win a premiership without at least 1 key forward

Might have been better off keeping Kennedy?

I understand your point but different situation, they have no key forward targets going forwards, totally lacking in key position players, we have a pretty strong spine so our recruiting has been much better in that sense and we don't need to take drastic steps to give our side structure,

Carlton won't win a premiership without at least 1 key forward

Good points, but I just worry about some of our supporters over-rating our spine.

The blues have Henderson and Jamison as two decent defenders and there Jekyl and Hide forward in Waite. You could say its better or worse than ours based on either of the two following approaches:

Glass half empty = We still rarely have forwards on the park, have a CHB who can barely kick the pill and a full back who will more than likely leave after this season.

Glass half full = Premiership playing CHF and an exceptional up and coming forward touted as the best of his age. A CHB who is continually improving and playing above his age and an All Australian fullback who's signing later this year is the start of things to come at the dees.

But anyway, back onto the main point.... god I hate Carlton.

I'd say GWS looked at the options Carlton offered and would have just laughed.

Exactly what I was alluding to...

Exactly what I was alluding to...

Carlton should have had the courage to offer a deal that wouldn't have been laughed at, not going anywhere without a key forward imo

I understand your point but different situation, they have no key forward targets going forwards, totally lacking in key position players, we have a pretty strong spine so our recruiting has been much better in that sense and we don't need to take drastic steps to give our side structure,

Carlton won't win a premiership without at least 1 key forward

They need a proper rebuild. At least a renovation.

But don't forget that a player must agree to a trade also.

Consider that a player of Murphy's calibre can essentially name his destination within reason, and I doubt he has a longing to uproot and move to the west of Sydney.

They need a proper rebuild. At least a renovation.

But don't forget that a player must agree to a trade also.

Consider that a player of Murphy's calibre can essentially name his destination within reason, and I doubt he has a longing to uproot and move to the west of Sydney.

That's a good point, they probably have 10 players that would have any appeal at all to GWS, maybe a huge some of money would have convinced them

I reckon Carlton would have offered something like Yarren and Robinson or Robinson and Mclean which would have been scoffed at.

One thing contributing to the issues at Carlton is an expensive recruit who isn't performing It’s black and white: Daisy’s no Blue

Franklin and Thomas may end up the poster boys for the pitfalls of Free Agency.

Building a list continues to prove to be an art form that can't be mastered with $.