MFC Communications Failing?

[Slartibartfast 16,007]

Well I'd agree, and the point was that the club does need to sell some hope, to in turn sell memberships.

I'd rather be a little disappointed myself and know the club has sold an extra thousand memberships.

Are you suggesting that the club should lie to people in the hope they buy memberships?

Surely not.

[Machsy 2,858]

Here's what I'm talking about.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-01-24/surgery-sidelines-garland

In an article advising us that Colin Garland was to have an operation. Here is a quote from Mahoney

Well guess what. I can't recall Misson saying anything during his rehab that said he was doing anything but "flying" but rather than being ready for the beginning of the season it looks like being 3 or 4 games in.

Re you're quote above, I should have said "see if they are spinning rubbish to supporters". My mistake.

I see what you're saying, but did you really expect anything different?

Do you really think you should?

Looks like the timeline has changed by a few weeks.

Meh.

* I also consider the possibility that Neeld or Craig or another coach could have rushed Garland back, but instead Roos has made the call to give the kid Georgiou a better run at it, and let Col take his time.

I don't think the call is always in the hands of those giving the prediction.

[Machsy 2,858]

Are you suggesting that the club should lie to people in the hope they buy memberships?

Surely not.

No.

But it sounds to me you want the club to give the worst-case-scenario return date to avoid disappointment.

Which I also don't agree with.

Because it would hurt membership sales, for one.

Doesn't everybody know not to take these predictions as gospel??

I learnt that as a child!

Edited March 28, 2014 by Machsy

[binman 39,070]

In the end I don't care if I don't know what injury a player has. Is it my business? Where does medical privacy fit in all this?

But I want to be told straight when to expect a player back and playing.

BTW, when did Geelong say Motlop would be back? Let's see if they are spinning rubbish to players. As for your point about "protect supporter morale in the short term" I'd suggest our spin does exactly the opposite.

This is where i sit also. Of course there is spin about injuries - as i have said it is the culture of football. What i am saying is that this culture is not as acceptable as it was. People in this day and age expect to have access to accurate information. I don't want to know the specific about an injury - who cares - i want to know when they are likely to be back playing. Full stop. I get the argument about not deflating fans and the potential impact on membership but surely those who posit that argument could see that there might also be a negative impact on membership if people get jacked off wit the club or begin not to trust it.

And clubs of all stripes try and cash in on this and by providing video content, tweets, emails etc. Why? - because that is now part of the culture. In a way the clubs are offering up a promise of enhanced connection . But if you feed too much crap to people this promise is broken they will become disenchanted in a way that wasn't the case 20 years ago when people were not constantly connected to the web. Also 20 years ago you jsut got the injury report/list in the paper not weekly video of the high performance manager essential dancing on a pin.If people get too disenchanted they will stop buying memberships. Simple.

The other thing that is new is the constant sharing of rumor and innuendo that social media (such as DL) both enables and fuels. Also new is the 1000 and 1 stupid footy gossip reporters such as Parrot who thrive on weeding out the correct information and slyly drip feeding it out. look at the Hogan example. His predication of six weeks out is starting to look conservative. Modern communication means controlling all of that noise by giving accurate information first. Failure to do so mean a club loses its power of communication in a way they simply was not the case 20 years ago when all they had to do was feed the papers and channel 7. This isn't Turkey - we can't ban Twitter.

But if none of that is possible just don't say a player will be back round X when there is no realistic chance of that happening.

[Machsy 2,858]

Can anyone name a club that does give accurate return dates?

[Machsy 2,858]

...

The other thing that is new is the constant sharing of rumor and innuendo that social media (such as DL) both enables and fuels. Also new is

But if none of that is possible just don't say a player will be back round X when there is no realistic chance of that happening.

All relatively valid...

But you're making the assumption it is possible to give an accurate return date.

It is only a prediction.

And very rarely if ever does anyone say "player X will be back by Round Y."

It's simply "about 2-3 weeks."

They talk in approximations for a reason - it's an educated guess.

[sue 8,475]

Binman, while some of what you say in your post above about the how the world has changed with regard to instant information is true, you overlook some things. First the average paid-up supporter does not follow all that stuff as obsessively as people on this forum do. The thing that will get them to drop their membership is us losing, not some vague feeling they are being fed spin about injury return dates. I see no evidence that we spin more than other clubs (but sadly do lose more). We just feel it more because it is our club - a bit like bad umpiring decisions.

I'm of the view that all those modern 21st century marketing gurus that the clubs employ have decided spin is good in attracting those more numerous and less obsessive supporters who don't read this forum every 10 minutes like us. We just need to grin and bear it.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Its simple the Club should not make such prediction. Best they stick to TBC rather than 2 to 3 weeks coverall.

2-3 weeks is as close 2-3 months.

I expect then that the medical treatment is also a medical guess as well.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Honestly Sue, you must think the average supporter is a blind lemming through all this. And I admit some definitely are but not all

If the side isn't winning and the top paid marque players are out, your dullard average supporter is going to ask "Oh when are they are back?"

If they find that the statements passed by the Club to the website or the general media are continuously optimistically wrong or clearly found later to be contradictory then you leave a distrusting supportert

BSing potential customers is not a successful tactic and no amount of 21st century "spin" will unhinge those "lied to" perceptions of people they encourage to have faith and believe in the Club.

[old dee 22,980]

Honestly Sue, you must think the average supporter is a blind lemming through all this. And I admit some definitely are but not all

If the side isn't winning and the top paid marque players are out, your dullard average supporter is going to ask "Oh when are they are back?"

If they find that the statements passed by the Club to the website or the general media are continuously optimistically wrong or clearly found later to be contradictory then you leave a distrusting supportert

BSing potential customers is not a successful tactic and no amount of 21st century "spin" will unhinge those "lied to" perceptions of people they encourage to have faith and believe in the Club.

100% agreement RR

[Machsy 2,858]

So-called "21st century spin" isn't all that different to "19th century spin."

Short memories.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Agree. Its all varying shades of BS. Believe it blindly at your peril

[sue 8,475]

Honestly Sue, you must think the average supporter is a blind lemming through all this. And I admit some definitely are but not all

If the side isn't winning and the top paid marque players are out, your dullard average supporter is going to ask "Oh when are they are back?"

If they find that the statements passed by the Club to the website or the general media are continuously optimistically wrong or clearly found later to be contradictory then you leave a distrusting supportert

BSing potential customers is not a successful tactic and no amount of 21st century "spin" will unhinge those "lied to" perceptions of people they encourage to have faith and believe in the Club.

I really don't think the average supporter follows all this so closely that they will feel lied to when things slip by a few weeks. How many really followed Hogan's, Mitch's etc injuries day by day over the pre-season?

They are closer to the 'blind lemming' than you think. I don't mean that in a disparaging way, they just aren't interested in the details to the extent people here are.

All the clubs spin, it just hurts us more because of our performance over recent years. Since all clubs do it, I'm assuming the 18+ marketing gurus at the clubs know more about this sort of crud than understandably disappointed and frustrated zealous supporters posting here do.

Looks like we won't agree. Complain to the club.

Edited March 28, 2014 by sue

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I really don't think the average supporter follows all this so closely that they will feel lied to when things slip by a few weeks. How many really followed Hogan's, Mitch's etc injuries day by day over the pre-season?

They are closer to the 'blind lemming' than you think. I don't mean that in a disparaging way, they just aren't interested in the details to the extent people here are.

All the clubs spin, it just hurts us more because of our performance over recent years. Since all clubs do it, I'm assuming the 18+ marketing gurus at the clubs know more about this sort of crud than understandably disappointed and frustrated zealous supporters posting here do.

Looks like we won't agree. Complain to the club.

You dont think that supporters wouldnt not follow the progress of 3 marquee players who along with Roos coming is going to save MFC after 7 years in the wilderness.

All the season the footy press have been talking up the big 3 as part of MFC's resurrection. And where are they??

If we continue to get beaten badly then the questions will be asked and the lemmings wont come.

I think your assumptions are a tad more blind that the average supporters you mistakenly judge.

[sue 8,475]

You dont think that supporters wouldnt not follow the progress of 3 marquee players who along with Roos coming is going to save MFC after 7 years in the wilderness.

All the season the footy press have been talking up the big 3 as part of MFC's resurrection. And where are they??

If we continue to get beaten badly then the questions will be asked and the lemmings wont come.

I think your assumptions are a tad more blind that the average supporters you mistakenly judge.

The performance on the field will matter about 1000 times more than any amount of anger supporters feel about being fed spin.

Put it the other way around - do you think that if by some miracle we won a lot of games, those supporters would give a tinker's curse about the spin?

As for me mistakenly judging the supporters - that may well be. But then so are all the spin masters at the clubs.

Edited March 28, 2014 by sue

[Damo 3,016]

Put it the other way around - do you think that if by some miracle we won a lot of games, those supporters would give a tinker's curse about the spin?

I find it interesting that you think there is no link between the two.

[nutbean 8,837]

I asked a couple of professionals in the sports medicine field.

Bottom line is - what you see is a best guess. Highly tuned athletes can have wildly fluctuating and different healing rates.

Again, I point to Chris Judd who is now on his 2nd revision of his return date from surgery. "The injury is not making as quick as progress as hoped".

Remember Junior ? He had a 2 week soft tissue injury that just refused to get better and it was some 8 weeks before he took the field again.

Some here are expecting exactness in a very inexact Science.

Edit - the only spin I think they put on it is they give an estimate based on what is an expected as a normal recovery. In a lot of instances it just doesnt happen that way and rarely does an injury heal quicker than anticipated.

Edited March 28, 2014 by nutbean

[Scoop Junior 3,038]

I asked a couple of professionals in the sports medicine field.

Bottom line is - what you see is a best guess. Highly tuned athletes can have wildly fluctuating and different healing rates.

Again, I point to Chris Judd who is now on his 2nd revision of his return date from surgery. "The injury is not making as quick as progress as hoped".

Remember Junior ? He had a 2 week soft tissue injury that just refused to get better and it was some 8 weeks before he took the field again.

Some here are expecting exactness in a very inexact Science.

Edit - the only spin I think they put on it is they give an estimate based on what is an expected as a normal recovery. In a lot of instances it just doesnt happen that way and rarely does an injury heal quicker than anticipated.

I think it's more a description of the injuries. For example, when Dawes injured himself in the intra-club, it was reported as calf tightness. Well calf tightness doesn't keep you out of action for 2 months. Perhaps it was calf tightness then and he subsequently strained the muscle, but I don't recall that ever being communicated - all I can recall was the initial diagnosis of calf tightness, that he is close to playing and they want to get him right for Round 1. Next thing you hear he is off to the AIS.

Same as the Hogan 'stress reaction' and I wouldn't be surprised if Gawn's injury is more than mere hamstring tightness.

Also, in cases where the prognosis is not clear, then there is nothing wrong with communicating that. If you think Dawes should be two weeks away but it could be more depending on how it settles, say that. We understand that healing rates differ and it's not an exact science, but I think that can be communicated better.

Anyone know anything about McKenzie? Last week Mahoney said he could have played but they were being cautious and he'll return next week. Is he injured or was he just not selected?

[sue 8,475]

I find it interesting that you think there is no link between the two.

Didn't say there was no link. Just that one thing has a much much bigger effect than the other.

IMO, most of us obsessive supporters who lurk about this forum are far more emotionally involved than the average supporter.

I think nutbean has nailed it.

[daisycutter 28,681]

I really don't think the average supporter follows all this so closely that they will feel lied to when things slip by a few weeks. How many really followed Hogan's, Mitch's etc injuries day by day over the pre-season?

They are closer to the 'blind lemming' than you think. I don't mean that in a disparaging way, they just aren't interested in the details to the extent people here are.

All the clubs spin, it just hurts us more because of our performance over recent years. Since all clubs do it, I'm assuming the 18+ marketing gurus at the clubs know more about this sort of crud than understandably disappointed and frustrated zealous supporters posting here do.

Looks like we won't agree. Complain to the club.

sue, just because "all clubs do it" doesn't mean they all do it as frequently and strongly as the mfc seem to be doing lately

nor is it in the same context as being such a disaster of a club which has sacked most of its management for lack of performance and promised a new level of realism in managing the club

saying "all clubs do it" is to much of a cop out

[Machsy 2,858]

I think it's more a description of the injuries. For example, when Dawes injured himself in the intra-club, it was reported as calf tightness. Well calf tightness doesn't keep you out of action for 2 months. Perhaps it was calf tightness then and he subsequently strained the muscle, but I don't recall that ever being communicated - all I can recall was the initial diagnosis of calf tightness, that he is close to playing and they want to get him right for Round 1. Next thing you hear he is off to the AIS.

Same as the Hogan 'stress reaction' and I wouldn't be surprised if Gawn's injury is more than mere hamstring tightness.

Also, in cases where the prognosis is not clear, then there is nothing wrong with communicating that. If you think Dawes should be two weeks away but it could be more depending on how it settles, say that. We understand that healing rates differ and it's not an exact science, but I think that can be communicated better.

Anyone know anything about McKenzie? Last week Mahoney said he could have played but they were being cautious and he'll return next week. Is he injured or was he just not selected?

Foot or toe injury for McKenzie, from memory.

I think Misson mentioned it in his video this week, funnily enough the first injury report video I've bothered watching in about 18 months.

Are our expectations out of whack here?

Do we really expect an update article on the MFC website to announce Dawes' calf tightness has been revised to a calf strain?

I certainly don't. And I think it would cause just as much supporter angst.

"Why weren't we told it was a strain to begin with?!!"

"What is our useless medical dept doing to our players?!!"

The website would be full of depressing junk articles about injury setbacks and revisions. I've no interest in that.

Why isn't enough to know that our players are injured and that they'll be back in the team when named?

Honestly - why do we need to know?

[Scoop Junior 3,038]

Foot or toe injury for McKenzie, from memory.

I think Misson mentioned it in his video this week, funnily enough the first injury report video I've bothered watching in about 18 months.

Are our expectations out of whack here?

Do we really expect an update article on the MFC website to announce Dawes' calf tightness has been revised to a calf strain?

I certainly don't. And I think it would cause just as much supporter angst.

"Why weren't we told it was a strain to begin with?!!"

"What is our useless medical dept doing to our players?!!"

The website would be full of depressing junk articles about injury setbacks and revisions. I've no interest in that.

Why isn't enough to know that our players are injured and that they'll be back in the team when named?

Honestly - why do we need to know?

It comes down to personal choice.

I would rather be informed straight away and can then reset and readjust my expectations accordingly, than to just mysteriously see player X fail to make the team and have no understanding why.

All it is doing is delaying the inevitable. We are going to find out about the injuries in due course as the player won't be playing - therefore in my opinion it is better to be open and honest straight away than to try to hide something that will come out anyway.

[Machsy 2,858]

Well, judging by the video just put up on the website not long ago, someone at the club is reading demonland and taking notes...

Jamar gives a rundown on his injury status in quite a bit of depth.

Didn't realise Burgan was so tall either... Unless he's standing on a box.

[binman 39,070]

It's about trust. What did people think when they heard about Gawn being injured? I don't know about others but my first thought was that he has a bigger problem than the club is letting on and that 1-2 could easily mean 5-6. That's probably not the case but who would know? If the idea of not being transparent is not to upset fans and impact on membership, well the opposite effect occurs for me. It worries me when someone gets a hammy because i wonder if that's code for something more chronic or difficult to treat.

The examples Scoop Junior are spot on, particularly the one about Hogan. I mean what really happened to him? Early reports were that he was injured in the Geelong NAB game, in a marking contest no less. Scans were going to reveal the damage. Then conflicting reports emerged about hot spots and stress fractures and symptomatic reactions - all of which suggested it was pre existing, potentially much more serious problem. Remember that a DL poster said in the training session prior to the Cats game he had some back issues and was getting quite a lot of treatment from the trainers and physio's.

Still there is zero clarity about what his injury specifically is. How could any of that been good for the club? This a player who dees fans have been desperate to see play for 17 months and no one has a clue about what is happening. Perhaps the club don't either. Well say that!

They lost control of the story when Damien Barret broke it on the footy show. Tell me what would have been wrong with being transparent from the get go and saying he had problems with his back and they were not sure how long it would take to fix. Yes that would have caused angst but again so does not being open as the next time a player cops an injury (eg with Gawn) fans will just assume the worse because that has been the experience thus far.

[Machsy 2,858]

In Hogan's case, I don't think the club can run around worrying about what various media outlets are mis-reporting.

Did the club itself ever say the injury came in the Geelong match?

I think that was just Barrett (highly credible source...)