Near Elite

[Courtney_Fish 183]

I get a bad taste in my mouth everytime I read that someone would like to be our captain. I can't see any good coming from it. And I know that we didn't have a player nominated as elite. What I'm asking here is for people to list who they think would walk in to a premiership quality best 22. The 2 issues are related because I would hate to pick one or more captains that would not be a force in our next premiership attempt. In fact I'd be happy if the current captaincy/leadership setup was more or less maintained till after this season bcs I don't think there is enough to go on after the way we have been playing the last couple of seasons; some of the better players my not improve much in a better team and some our lesser players could shine in a better performing team. I'm also aware that a great captain can lift a team when they are playing badly. As an example, people (including myself) think Dawes has captain like qualities but would Dawes be an immediate selection in a premiership team? You may think 'certainly bcs he played in the Pies premiership team', but the Pies didn't think so.

I think Frawley, Garland & Clark would walk right in to a premiership team. There's a few in the 'maybe' column but it's too hard to tell at this point.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

I reckon you nailed the three.

Garland doesn't want it.

Clark is a problem coz of his injury.

Frawley is the obvious, it may test him, if he declines, then he doesn't want to be with us in 2015.

So I think we could end up going for multiple leaders to see what they can bring to the table.

[Courtney_Fish 183]

Frawley is the obvious, it may test him, if he declines, then he doesn't want to be with us in 2015.

I seem to recall a player staying at a club because he was offered the captaincy but I can't remember who.

I just want to add to my earlier post that obviously being a walk up start in a premiership team does not mean a player would be a good captain - and I'm not aiming that at any particular player.

[puntkick 325]

Coach Roos seems to be saying he's happy with dual captains.

As i've said before do Leading Teams work for nothing to come up with the answer ?

{31/16}/2 ?

[Courtney_Fish 183]

No one gets there nose out of joint if it's given to an old guy but there's nobody appropriate on our list. Cross is the most senior and he is a great example from what everyone says but he was cast out from an ordinary team though this could have been because they are going for a re-build.

[puntkick 325]

Just can't see everyone at the MFC rallying around the cross !

[DeeSpencer 25,522]

We won 2 games, so I don't see the point of making sure our next captain is good enough for a grand final. Right now we need captains who will help us win games. If we get up to the 8 then we might have to think about that

Nathan Jones - would at least be a depth midfielder in every team

Colin Garland - 3rd tall defender capable of playing tall or short, attacking or defender, room for him to walk up in almost every backline in the comp

James Frawley - one of the best full backs in the comp, would be in most teams

Mitch Clark - might compete with Hale for ruck/forward in last years Hawthorn but at best wins that job for the Hawks and for almost every other team and otherwise could play as a forward or defeder

Would be in most premiership teams

Bernie Vince - skilled, pacy, would be hard to keep out in most 22's

Jack Viney - his attack is relentless and whilst he wouldn't be clear best 22 he'd be in and around even the better teams

Chris Dawes - you'd need a team with either 2 gun key forwards or 1 big forward, 1 ruck/forward and a quality 3rd tall to keep him out

Jack Grimes - as a back flanker he racks up the ball, can intercept mark and is a tough physical player

Jeremy Howe - on output alone would be borderline on premiership quality but his talents would be hard to keep out of grand final team

[Courtney_Fish 183]

We won 2 games, so I don't see the point of making sure our next captain is good enough for a grand final. Right now we need captains who will help us win games. If we get up to the 8 then we might have to think about that

I may be hugely optomistic but I wouldn't find it unbelievable to reach the finals this year. A jump of bottom-dweller to finals are not that rare are they?

[caddypgt 30]

I seem to recall a player staying at a club because he was offered the captaincy but I can't remember who.

I just want to add to my earlier post that obviously being a walk up start in a premiership team does not mean a player would be a good captain - and I'm not aiming that at any particular player.

I reckon that would have been Travis Boak; but it wouldn't have been the only factor.

Edited January 13, 2014 by caddypgt

[Beats 190]

The 2013 premiership winning team was:

B: Stratton, Lake, Birchall

HB: Burgoyne, Gibson, Hill

C: Smith, Mitchell, Lewis

HF: Breust, Franklin, Rioli

F: Puopolo, Roughead, Gunston

R: Bailey, Sewell, Hodge

INT: Hale, Shiels, Guerra, Simpkin

+ the following players who had season ending injuries to round out their top 25.

Injured (season): schoenmakers, suckling, whitecross

I would swap the following players:

Howe - Puopolo - Different players but same position. Based on their last season Howe had more shots on goal (44-21) and marks (+3.5 p.g.), while Puopolo had more tackles (+3.1) and more effective disposals (+2.2 p.g). Would take Howe based on the shots on goals difference.

Frawley - Stratton - Similar players, Frawley is better.

Garland - Hill - Different players same position. Pretty similar statwise, however Garland probably plays better defensively on smalls than Hill and is definitely better at overall defence.

Clark - Hale - Similar players, Clark is better.

Grimes - Guerra - Similar roles, Guerra is a better kick but Grimes is a better all round player.

Jones - Simpkin - Similar players, Jones is better.

Mcdonald - Schoenmakers - Similar players, Mcdonald is better. Would come in as depth with the considerable KPD talent.

To make this team:

B: Lake, Frawley, Birchall

HB: Suckling, Gibson, Garland

C: Smith, Mitchell, Lewis

HF: Whitecross, Franklin, Rioli

F: Breust, Roughead, Clark

R: Bailey, Sewell, Hodge

INT: Gunston, Jones, Grimes, Burgoyne

EMG: McDonald, Shiels, Howe

By my count 7 demons players would make Hawthorns best 25, albeit only 3 starting on the field, with 2 on the bench and 2 as emergencies. Cases can be made for Vince/ Viney to replace Shiels and one of our ruckmen to replace Bailey, but I see the players on even levels so stuck with the Hawthorn pair.

In regards to the captain not being a best 22 player, I'd be happy with any of the 5 I believe would have made the Hawthorn best 22 as captain next year.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Beats

[Sir Why You Little 36,998]

The 2013 premiership winning team was:

B: Stratton, Lake, Birchall

HB: Burgoyne, Gibson, Hill

C: Smith, Mitchell, Lewis

HF: Breust, Franklin, Rioli

F: Puopolo, Roughead, Gunston

R: Bailey, Sewell, Hodge

INT: Hale, Shiels, Guerra, Simpkin

+ the following players who had season ending injuries to round out their top 25.

Injured (season): schoenmakers, suckling, whitecross

I would swap the following players:

Howe - Puopolo - Different players but same position. Based on their last season Howe had more shots on goal (44-21) and marks (+3.5 p.g.), while Puopolo had more tackles (+3.1) and more effective disposals (+2.2 p.g). Would take Howe based on the shots on goals difference.

Frawley - Stratton - Similar players, Frawley is better.

Garland - Hill - Different players same position. Pretty similar statwise, however Garland probably plays better defensively on smalls than Hill and is definitely better at overall defence.

Clark - Hale - Similar players, Clark is better.

Grimes - Guerra - Similar roles, Guerra is a better kick but Grimes is a better all round player.

Jones - Simpkin - Similar players, Jones is better.

Mcdonald - Schoenmakers - Similar players, Mcdonald is better. Would come in as depth with the considerable KPD talent.

To make this team:

B: Lake, Frawley, Birchall

HB: Suckling, Gibson, Garland

C: Smith, Mitchell, Lewis

HF: Whitecross, Franklin, Rioli

F: Breust, Roughead, Clark

R: Bailey, Sewell, Hodge

INT: Gunston, Jones, Grimes, Burgoyne

EMG: McDonald, Shiels, Howe

By my count 7 demons players would make Hawthorns best 25, albeit only 3 starting on the field, with 2 on the bench and 2 as emergencies. Cases can be made for Vince/ Viney to replace Shiels and one of our ruckmen to replace Bailey, but I see the players on even levels so stuck with the Hawthorn pair.

In regards to the captain not being a best 22 player, I'd be happy with any of the 5 I believe would have made the Hawthorn best 22 as captain next year.

You are going to change 7 Whorethorn players for 7 MFC 2013 players to make a better team.

Haha that is amusing really

[CBDees 3,167]

Methinks that another merger proposal is being suggested by Beats (post #10). This will have Don Scott riding into the fray on his polo pony!

[angrydee 842]

Methinks that another merger proposal is being suggested by Beats (post #10). This will have Don Scott riding into the fray on his polo pony!

He just didn't like the dorks.

The shoe would be on the other foot - he'd probably like the Hawthorn hemons (or hemen)

[Undeeterred 3,123]

You are going to change 7 Whorethorn players for 7 MFC 2013 players to make a better team.

Haha that is amusing really

You're forgetting that we're substituting our top 6 with their bottom 6, effectively. Nobody is saying our best is better than their best, but it seems reasonable to say that a few of our top players are at least better than their 20-25. I don't see that as particularly unreasonable.

[Beats 190]

You're forgetting that we're substituting our top 6 with their bottom 6, effectively. Nobody is saying our best is better than their best, but it seems reasonable to say that a few of our top players are at least better than their 20-25. I don't see that as particularly unreasonable.

Pretty much this, we might be bad but our top 6 are still better than the bottom 6 at pretty much any team.

The OP asked which of our players are premiership quality, I responded (with reasoning) saying that 5 of our players would make their best 22, 7 would make their best 25. I didn't suggest a merger, I listed the players I think would be swapped in and how they would fit in to the last premiership team.

[pantaloons 2,019]

How hard is it for people to accept that in a bad team there might be players that could be a part of a better team? In the NFL last season, the Chiefs went 2-14 and yet had 6 Pro Bowlers. There's a lot more to having a premiership team than just having good players. Lets not forget that we've had two of the worst coaches in VFL/AFL history since Daniher left. When you upgrade to the best coach in the AFL, you don't just hope for improvement, it is expected.

[Gorgoroth 12,926]

Can't swap Puopolo for Howe, puopolo plays a defensive game that Howe doesn't.