On 03/12/2013 at 03:29, nutbean said:

Obviously not from leading teams and by this comment has not been exposed to the process nor does he understand how the process works. (cop a blast - seriously !)

Edit - just so you are aware - Good leaders are able to deliver honest criticism without it being perceived as "giving a blast". Before any of the group critiquing takes place - LT takes you through how to criticize without getting too personal, insulting or invasive. This works for some but not all. The moderator from LT then coaches as you are giving criticism and keeps comments within bounds so it is not a "sh*t canning" exercise. It is done respectfully so it does not demoralise. The idea of sitting in front of the group and copping a blast is fantasy.

nut, remember how it should work and how it sometimes works can be two very different things

you and hood are both right and wrong......it all depends

there are no absolutes here......it's a very qualitative nuanced process with infinite variations

we put our trust in roos and hope for a good outcome

  On 03/12/2013 at 04:44, daisycutter said:

nut, remember how it should work and how it sometimes works can be two very different things

you and hood are both right and wrong......it all depends

there are no absolutes here......it's a very qualitative nuanced process with infinite variations

we put our trust in roos and hope for a good outcome

We did have leading teams through our organisation and before we opened up to group critiquing rules were discussed with firm guidelines on how to critique. The moderator made it very clear that "bashing" was not allowed and would be shutdown. The idea was to learn to offer criticism that could be taken onboard and was not just viewed as an attack.

The problem that did occur is a few who were not all that skilled ended up clamming up as they couldn't get a grasp of offer non offensive criticism.

Also the major difference between our experience and the MFC is that it appears the whole playing group will be exposed to the process whereas we used it for our management. Then with us it had a trickle down effect to the balance of the staff.

It was a very positive experience.

  On 03/12/2013 at 04:55, nutbean said:

We did have leading teams through our organisation and before we opened up to group critiquing rules were discussed with firm guidelines on how to critique. The moderator made it very clear that "bashing" was not allowed and would be shutdown. The idea was to learn to offer criticism that could be taken onboard and was not just viewed as an attack.

The problem that did occur is a few who were not all that skilled ended up clamming up as they couldn't get a grasp of offer non offensive criticism.

Also the major difference between our experience and the MFC is that it appears the whole playing group will be exposed to the process whereas we used it for our management. Then with us it had a trickle down effect to the balance of the staff.

It was a very positive experience.

and now you are just repeating yourself

you had a good experience - terrific, i'm pleased for you

but you didn't read what i said

  On 03/12/2013 at 03:46, Machsy said:

Sorry WYL, but once again, imo... You. Don't. Know. What. You. Are. Talking. About.

as you stated. It's your opinion.

I have seen and been involved in LT situations where the whole organization was involved.

It took time but it was a success because every employee regardless of position was involved.

It worked. The organization became a lot more efficient.

  On 03/12/2013 at 05:13, why you little said:

as you stated. It's your opinion.

I have seen and been involved in LT situations where the whole organization was involved.

It took time but it was a success because every employee regardless of position was involved.

It worked. The organization became a lot more efficient.

you're surely not referring to the abc wyl?

  On 03/12/2013 at 04:59, daisycutter said:

and now you are just repeating yourself

you had a good experience - terrific, i'm pleased for you

but you didn't read what i said

read exactly what you said. Hood is not right in one aspect - there is no "Copping" it unless the moderator has failed in his role. There is a chance of shut down but they wouldnt allow player bashing.

It was interesting that Aker hated the process and when they drilled down to why he started off saying that the group all circled and bashed him about his "outwardness" then after further questioning from the journo he said that it wasnt quite bashing but it was stated that he was flamboyant and perhaps put himself before the team and the rest of the group agreed.

  On 03/12/2013 at 06:03, nutbean said:

read exactly what you said. Hood is not right in one aspect - there is no "Copping" it unless the moderator has failed in his role. There is a chance of shut down but they wouldnt allow player bashing.

and therein lies one example of what i hinted at

it's a qualitative, judgement based job. the moderator may or may not see it as someone copping it but the particular individual may

its analogous to how and who discrimination is perceived

remember it's not really voluntary and each participant will embrace it (or not) to different degrees

the job of the moderator requires the judgement of solomon sometimes

to add a bit of d_l philosophy "what breaketh one man may maketh another"

anyway as i said, in this case we have no choice but to put in our faith and hope that it works out well

  On 03/12/2013 at 03:29, nutbean said:

Obviously not from leading teams and by this comment has not been exposed to the process nor does he understand how the process works. (cop a blast - seriously !)

Edit - just so you are aware - Good leaders are able to deliver honest criticism without it being perceived as "giving a blast". Before any of the group critiquing takes place - LT takes you through how to criticize without getting too personal, insulting or invasive. This works for some but not all. The moderator from LT then coaches as you are giving criticism and keeps comments within bounds so it is not a "sh*t canning" exercise. It is done respectfully so it does not demoralise. The idea of sitting in front of the group and copping a blast is fantasy.

We can theorise all we like. But B Hall wouldn't be making things up and his description of what he was subjected to didn't sound too hot. You are assuming LT was there, maybe they weren't and it wasn't implemented too well without them. Who knows.

  On 03/12/2013 at 06:03, nutbean said:

read exactly what you said. Hood is not right in one aspect - there is no "Copping" it unless the moderator has failed in his role. There is a chance of shut down but they wouldnt allow player bashing.

It was interesting that Aker hated the process and when they drilled down to why he started off saying that the group all circled and bashed him about his "outwardness" then after further questioning from the journo he said that it wasnt quite bashing but it was stated that he was flamboyant and perhaps put himself before the team and the rest of the group agreed.

Interesting that the two players we know of who have criticised the process i.e. Aker and Hall were both turfed out of their clubs for failing the No D#ckHeads Policy. Maybe this says more about them than the process and they didn't like hearing what was said before they both ended up leaving their Clubs.

  On 03/12/2013 at 07:11, It said:

Interesting that the two players we know of who have criticised the process i.e. Aker and Hall were both turfed out of their clubs for failing the No D#ckHeads Policy. Maybe this says more about them than the process and they didn't like hearing what was said before they both ended up leaving their Clubs.

might very well be an element of truth in that... having said that both players in their day were A graders, who wouldnt have had them on their list ?

  On 03/12/2013 at 07:11, It said:

Interesting that the two players we know of who have criticised the process i.e. Aker and Hall were both turfed out of their clubs for failing the No D#ckHeads Policy. Maybe this says more about them than the process and they didn't like hearing what was said before they both ended up leaving their Clubs.

didn't dane swan used to nod off because he was so interested?

  On 03/12/2013 at 07:11, It said:

Interesting that the two players we know of who have criticised the process i.e. Aker and Hall were both turfed out of their clubs for failing the No D#ckHeads Policy. Maybe this says more about them than the process and they didn't like hearing what was said before they both ended up leaving their Clubs.

Funny that-Aker won Brisbane at least one flag as did Hall win Sydney one,when the AFL let him play in their GF.

  On 03/12/2013 at 06:03, nutbean said:

read exactly what you said. Hood is not right in one aspect - there is no "Copping" it unless the moderator has failed in his role. There is a chance of shut down but they wouldnt allow player bashing.

It was interesting that Aker hated the process and when they drilled down to why he started off saying that the group all circled and bashed him about his "outwardness" then after further questioning from the journo he said that it wasnt quite bashing but it was stated that he was flamboyant and perhaps put himself before the team and the rest of the group agreed.

Whoops "the copping a blast" was my hamfisted, lazy summary of his opinion (not mine). He used words more like worrying about players who are often raw kids being intimidated or daunted by having to face their peers in a one on 35 open and honest discussion. No doubt he was old school, a long career in HR with large companies I think. And yes he was more focused on making players accountable for what they did on the field and at training. On field leadership was his gig.

I have had some exposure to this stuff at live in leadership courses at Melbourne Business School. I can see its value but I never really felt comfortable with it. Open and honest conversations one on one between a manager and employee or amongst a small team can be very productive. Throwing an individual out in front of a larger group, not so sure.

I know when I was first involved back in the 90's with the open and honest discussion forums where you had to sit out front of your peers, many of our older managers who I would equate to your Barry Halls and Akers really lost it at the open forum experience. They gave back what they copped but that was very early days of this concept.

  On 03/12/2013 at 05:41, daisycutter said:

you're surely not referring to the abc wyl?

yes i am. The entire news department and all departments who were in any way connected to the program. (Library,studio,graphics,editors, camera crews, technicians) we were all involved. Late 80's the news in Melbourne was rating around 2.

Within a year we were pulling 20's. The Boss was a hard [censored] but he got respect because everybody knew there place in the chain.

LT i am sure is far more modern in its approach but the bottom line s the same.

Every employee inside the MFC has to pull their weight.

  On 03/12/2013 at 08:50, why you little said:

yes i am. The entire news department and all departments who were in any way connected to the program. (Library,studio,graphics,editors, camera crews, technicians) we were all involved. Late 80's the news in Melbourne was rating around 2.

Within a year we were pulling 20's. The Boss was a hard [censored] but he got respect because everybody knew there place in the chain.

LT i am sure is far more modern in its approach but the bottom line s the same.

Every employee inside the MFC has to pull their weight.

WYL you make an excellent point. LT for the MFC management in previous years may have saved us at least 5 years of angst. Because its methods may have flushed out the dysfunctional management very quickly. Of that I am confident, but I suspect CS would have buried it all quick smart.

  On 03/12/2013 at 09:15, The Hood said:

WYL you make an excellent point. LT for the MFC management in previous years may have saved us at least 5 years of angst. Because its methods may have flushed out the dysfunctional management very quickly. Of that I am confident, but I suspect CS would have buried it all quick smart.

That may have happened.

We had them at MFC under Neeld did we not?

FWIW-the corporate wankshyte [censored] management structure appraisal arsebag industry is not my scene.

I'm more into abuse, ridicule and scorn as a way to motivate any parasites in the workplace.

BBOs sister is a prime example of one of my pet projects-lazy hag.

  On 03/12/2013 at 09:30, Biffen said:

That may have happened.

We had them at MFC under Neeld did we not?

FWIW-the corporate wankshyte [censored] management structure appraisal arsebag industry is not my scene.

I'm more into abuse, ridicule and scorn as a way to motivate any parasites in the workplace.

BBOs sister is a prime example of one of my pet projects-lazy hag.

That is one way of looking at it.

  On 03/12/2013 at 08:50, why you little said:

yes i am. The entire news department and all departments who were in any way connected to the program. (Library,studio,graphics,editors, camera crews, technicians) we were all involved. Late 80's the news in Melbourne was rating around 2.

Within a year we were pulling 20's. The Boss was a hard [censored] but he got respect because everybody knew there place in the chain.

LT i am sure is far more modern in its approach but the bottom line s the same.

Every employee inside the MFC has to pull their weight.

Lets just suggest that any analogies to competence or otherwise of the ABC may or may not be taken with any seriousness.

Bang bang says hello

  On 03/12/2013 at 09:30, Biffen said:

That may have happened.

We had them at MFC under Neeld did we not?

FWIW-the corporate wankshyte [censored] management structure appraisal arsebag industry is not my scene.

I'm more into abuse, ridicule and scorn as a way to motivate any parasites in the workplace.

BBOs sister is a prime example of one of my pet projects-lazy hag.

Correct Biffen - even about my lazy [censored] of a sister.

Organisations nowadays think it is compulsory to employ some sort of consultants to tell them how to run their business.

Clubs / organisations seem to forget that they are the experts on their own organisation. I have observed/ been a part of fads that have cost squillions of dollars in education and local government.

For example do your girls need to know about Covey's 7 good habits ( or whatever they were ) to carry out their duties?

  On 03/12/2013 at 09:52, Bitter but optimistic said:

Correct Biffen - even about my lazy [censored] of a sister.

Organisations nowadays think it is compulsory to employ some sort of consultants to tell them how to run their business.

Clubs / organisations seem to forget that they are the experts on their own organisation. I have observed/ been a part of fads that have cost squillions of dollars in education and local government.

For example do your girls don't need to know about Covey's 7 good habits ( or whatever they were ) to carry out their duties?

She knows what she is told-as well as all that University stuff she tries to bring up at staff meetings.

I'm sure she will tell you all about it-I'm giving her an hour off for Xmas.

You need to be more patient Biffen.My sister is a slow learner but once she gets the gist of something she is quite wholehearted in her application.

  On 03/12/2013 at 09:46, beelzebub said:

Lets just suggest that any analogies to competence or otherwise of the ABC may or may not be taken with any seriousness.

Bang bang says hello

You can take it anyway you like but a rating jump of 20 within a year is no longer seen.

Business is business no matter what the operation.

The MFC was a shell when PJ walked in. We all know this.

Now is the right time for the Admin and the Footy Dept to both restructure in the best way they can.

  On 03/12/2013 at 10:35, why you little said:

You can take it anyway you like but a rating jump of 20 within a year is no longer seen.

Business is business no matter what the operation.

The MFC was a shell when PJ walked in. We all know this.

Now is the right time for the Admin and the Footy Dept to both restructure in the best way they can.

Just saw the end of Keato the true story.

Brilliant left wing elitist history written and produced by the incompetent and biased pot-smoking staff at the ABC.

Kerry O'Brien managed to keep off the Chardonnay long enough to ask the tough questions.

The Arrogance of Keato makes Ben Hur look like a humble Big Issue Salesman.

Good work you ABC bludgers.

$.08 a year well spent.

  On 03/12/2013 at 10:43, Biffen said:

Just saw the end of Keato the true story.

Brilliant left wing elitist history written and produced by the incompetent and biased pot-smoking staff at the ABC.

Kerry O'Brien managed to keep off the Chardonnay long enough to ask the tough questions.

The Arrogance of Keato makes Ben Hur look like a humble Big Issue Salesman.

Good work you ABC bludgers.

$.08 a year well spent.

Thanks Biff. This one was done in Sydney.

"Labor in Power" i worked on for 2 years in Melbourne back in '93.

That was an amazing show to work on.

  On 03/12/2013 at 10:43, Biffen said:

Just saw the end of Keato the true story.

Brilliant left wing elitist history written and produced by the incompetent and biased pot-smoking staff at the ABC.

Kerry O'Brien managed to keep off the Chardonnay long enough to ask the tough questions.

The Arrogance of Keato makes Ben Hur look like a humble Big Issue Salesman.

Good work you ABC bludgers.

$.08 a year well spent.

paul is definitely his own best fan (after TGR that is)