If Buddy goes, Spangher could work in nicely with Roughy & Gunston etc for a fraction of the price.

He plays well in defence too as seen in the reserve GF.

Lake & Gunston merchandise might take up the slack in the Hawkshop!?

btw hasn't our redheaded delisting bulked up this year, might get backline Ashley & Martin's spot when he retires but don't think he'll be the designated kicker in the forward line too soon after Tassie shot!

Comedy crowd sign of the day had to be original NO MERGER sign. Wonder if it was one of us or them?

Still they haven't got as many flags/cups as us yet have they?

If Buddy goes, Spangher could work in nicely with Roughy & Gunston etc for a fraction of the price.

He plays well in defence too as seen in the reserve GF.

Lake & Gunston merchandise might take up the slack in the Hawkshop!?

btw hasn't our redheaded delisting bulked up this year, might get backline Ashley & Martin's spot when he retires but don't think he'll be the designated kicker in the forward line too soon after Tassie shot!

Comedy crowd sign of the day had to be original NO MERGER sign. Wonder if it was one of us or them?

Still they haven't got as many flags/cups as us yet have they?

I reckon the Hawks might feel it more when Hale finishes up than when Buddy goes - he's so important to their setup and gives them a lot in the ruck and up forward. He's very flexible.

Cheney wasn't delisted.

We traded him for the pick that got us Tom McDonald.

I hear that Mumford is annoyed at the Tippett coin, and will be at the hawks if buddy goes. This covers buddy and later Hale.

Cheney wasn't delisted.

We traded him for the pick that got us Tom McDonald.

Apologies for loose talk.I actually like him.He's serving the Hawks 5 year apprentiership.Hoping like hell we can soon develop our players as they do

Apologies for loose talk.I actually like him.He's serving the Hawks 5 year apprentiership.Hoping like hell we can soon develop our players as they do

Don't think it's a big call to say that Cheney won't be at the Hawks for too much longer, certainly not for 5 years. Cam Bruce did zip while he was there. For the most part, our delistings or 'trades to get rid of' have not hurt us (Scott Thompson to Adel was not of our choosing). Whether that is because they were no good or we unfortunately 'Melbournised' them is another issue. However, you are correct in implying that we have been poor at player development, Puntkick.

Apologies for loose talk.I actually like him.He's serving the Hawks 5 year apprentiership.Hoping like hell we can soon develop our players as they do

Cheney? The only apprenticeship he's been serving is the one he's about to embark on for his post footy career as a Nurse. Decent hard nut footballer but not defensive enough to hold a spot as a true defender, lacks height to play tall and small and skills weren't up to it at Melbourne and isn't at Hawthorn either.

Same as Spangher he's never going to be a regular best 22. If Franklin leaves he might see game time but they might use Hale as a forward more, develop Grimley, trade for a ruckman (ie Mumford or Billy Longer) or just play Gunston as a slightly small full forward and kick it to him and watch him get a 50 plus goal season.

These type of players are the ones you have on your list when you are close to a flag and you need depth to be able to step in just in case you get a late injury crises. When you are in the situation like we are you hold one or two extra players over as kids who might not make it instead. Either way the likes of Spangher have GWS and Gold Coast freeing up 88 extra AFL list spots and taking 40 top quality kids between them away from the other 16 teams.

It confirms my ill informed but persistent expression that it aint the players but the coaching that has been the most significant issue for many years at our club

Spot on. Coaching, leadership & culture are so much more important than who got what pick right when.

Lots of people seem to blame all our woes on poor recruiting and the AFL. Then when discussing the Hawks & the Cats success they apparently just 'got lucky'.

I accept some poor recruiting as a factor but find it really baffling that people appear to place this above poor development & coaching and a lack of leadership & winning culture. And even more so when other clubs success is then passed off as luck or AFL assisted.

Some interesting (to me anyway) observations about Hawthorn's list:

The Imports

They have filled gaps probably better than any club. They have players wanting to go to the club which helps. But they have lured Gunston, Burgoyne, Lake, Gibson and Hale. All have been tremendous pick ups and held down critical positions.

Body shape

They have a lot that are in the same vein. Tall but not particularly big:

Shiels 183cm/84kgs, Suckling 187/86, Smith 188/82, Ellis 187/80. Gunston 193/84, Lewis 186/88, Savage 182/82, Bruest 184/84

These guys are strong and contest as well as anyone yet they aren't massively big. In fact I'd say they look skinny. We can seem to get the right combination of strength. speed and endurance.

Speed

Smith, Rioli, Bruest, Buddy give them great run. We are so far behind them in speed it ain't funny.

Kicking skills

Goes without saying but they are extraordinary with their accuracy - altho it helps greatly they run and spread incredibly well.

System

Their press and pressure were outstanding. They seem to have changed it slightly but everyone does their job and their captain is brilliant at organising everyone around him. In the last quarter he went back and even though Lake was having a blinder, Hodge marshalled the troops back there as well as anyone ever has.

The culture of the club is amazing, here is a club that played in 8 GFs straight yet found themselves on the poor end of a merger proposal, The way they have re-engineered the club is actually pretty incredible.

We have a long way to go.

BTW FWIW was speaking to a Swans premiership player yesterday about Roos and he said he was really good but he wont hang around if its not working - hence the 2y contract with a third year option.....

To be optimistic the Hawks list is awesome but the Dockers went very close to knocking them over despite attrocious kicking and first time jitters. That may not be an excuse but it shows the value of a simple, defensive, disciplined game plan that players can buy into and execute. Secondly you need at least 2or 3 A grade inside mids backed up by 2 or 3 outsiders to put pressure on the opposition. This is where we don't measure up. However I would say we match the Dockers in key forwards and backline so that leaves us looking for 2 to 3 elite mids to bridge the difference, in theory. How hard can that be?

Well the problem is we have been searching for a dominant midfield for as long as I can remember. Is 20 years close to the mark?

- You don't need a great Ruckman to win a GF .

They do have the arguably the best 2nd rucks in the game in Hale & Roughy. Whilst there 1st ruck may be a statute, there ruck division & strategy is elite.

They do have the arguably the best 2nd rucks in the game in Hale & Roughy. Whilst there 1st ruck may be a statute, there ruck division & strategy is elite.

Still does not alter the fact that they do not have a great ruckman