If Wines was at Melbourne he'd probably be 10 kg lighter, soft and unable to get a kick.

If Wines was at Melbourne he'd probably be 10 kg lighter, soft and unable to get a kick.

Right, Dees new motto

"CLUB KRYPTONITE"

Toumpas would be considered a gun at a club like Hawthorn or Geelong.

And if wines was with us, he wouldn't look nearly as good.

Nobody can envisage that and that's because of the anguish and frustration shown for the performance of the MFC. We all get caught up in everything that's gone wrong with our club from admin to coaching to recruiting.

I'd argue that Toumpas was yet again another youngster managed poorly by Neeld and co and should not have been played so often and early last year. Especially when you consider his limited pre-season.

I'm not making excuses because I was the first one who jumped on players like Morton and Gysberts. Players who I think were genuinely the wrong picks. Sure our environment didn't help either of them, but I believe Toumpas is a very good player, and given time will show that and overcome the conditioning. He is driven, like Viney and like Jones.

Toumpas did a lot of gut running to space on the weekend and ignored. By the time it was turned he like everyone else had to chase a lot of tail. Lets also remember Toumpas has been playing forward all pre season which is no really his position. In in SA days he was playing as a pure on baller. I hope this week Roos starts him on a wing and runs through the middle every now and then.

Toumpas did a lot of gut running to space on the weekend and ignored. By the time it was turned he like everyone else had to chase a lot of tail. Lets also remember Toumpas has been playing forward all pre season which is no really his position. In in SA days he was playing as a pure on baller. I hope this week Roos starts him on a wing and runs through the middle every now and then.

Does he have the pace to do it?

Does he have the pace to do it?

pace isn't the issue, it's if he has developed the tank to play that role, he's a smart footballer so he will find space, for now his average as a half forward is fine

Does he have the pace to do it?

I don't think Toumpas is as slow as everyone seems to believe. He ain't quick, but he isn't Trengove slow.

Regardless, you don't need to be quick to be a good on-baller. There are plenty of players exemplifying this throughout the leage, Mitchell and Sewell to name a couple.

I don't think Toumpas is as slow as everyone seems to believe. He ain't quick, but he isn't Trengove slow.

Regardless, you don't need to be quick to be a good on-baller. There are plenty of players exemplifying this throughout the leage, Mitchell and Sewell to name a couple.

If he is to be an outside mid he needs accelleration and good pace.

Rubbush WYL. Steele Sidebottom, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna are all star outside mids who aren't quick at all just good football smarts. Something Toumpas already has.

If he is to be an outside mid he needs accelleration and good pace.

I disagree, he needs to find space and be damaging in it to be an outside mid, his kicking will make him damaging it's just about finding space enough to get 30+ touches per game, atm he averages 17 as a forward and has proven a capable goal kicker, if he does that through being quick or through being intelligent is totally irrelevant

Rubbush WYL. Steele Sidebottom, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna are all star outside mids who aren't quick at all just good football smarts. Something Toumpas already has.

We shall see. It depends how damaging you want your outside player to be

Rubbush WYL. Steele Sidebottom, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna are all star outside mids who aren't quick at all just good football smarts. Something Toumpas already has.

We shall see. It depends how damaging you want your outside player to be

You don't think over the course of the journey that Sidebottom, Nicky Dal and Montagna haven't been damaging ? wow !

I don't think Toumpas is as slow as everyone seems to believe. He ain't quick, but he isn't Trengove slow.

Regardless, you don't need to be quick to be a good on-baller. There are plenty of players exemplifying this throughout the leage, Mitchell and Sewell to name a couple.

Phrase of the week. Think it might stick throughout the rest of the season too.

You don't think over the course of the journey that Sidebottom, Nicky Dal and Montagna haven't been damaging ? wow !

Dal Santo is over rated. He can play but is often beaten

Dal Santo is over rated. He can play but is often beaten

LOL, of course he is. You would know wouldn't you, LOL!

Dal Santo is over rated. He can play but is often beaten

We are talking about the 260 game, 3 times all Australian Nick Dal Santo ?

We are talking about the 260 game, 3 times all Australian Nick Dal Santo ?

who has often been fairly quiet in big games

LMAO is this a joke WYL? I cant take you serious now with your views on Toumpas after how you just rated DAL Santo..! You would take him in an absolute heartbeat.

You said outside players need good pace and acceleration and I pointed to the fact those players aren't quick or anything like that. You now say they have to be damaging? admit it WYL your judgement on a decent footballer is mediocrity at best.

LMAO is this a joke WYL? I cant take you serious now with your views on Toumpas after how you just rated DAL Santo..! You would take him in an absolute heartbeat.

You said outside players need good pace and acceleration and I pointed to the fact those players aren't quick or anything like that. You now say they have to be damaging? admit it WYL your judgement on a decent footballer is mediocrity at best.

of course an outside mid has to be damaging. You said they do not require pace.

I believe to be an elite outside mid they DO need accelleration with pace.

Let's be clear on this.

Wheres Sidebottoms acceleration? or Dal Santo? Lachie Whitfield is a up and coming outside mid but I never see him accelerate from the stoppages?

Being outside elite doesn't necessary mean he have to be quick. If you have football smarts and willing to gut run that makes up for lack of pace. Dal Santo is a perfect example. Sam Mitchell who has the special mix of inside and outside has the smarts and run to play that outside role aswell.

Toumpas did a lot of gut running to space on the weekend and ignored. By the time it was turned he like everyone else had to chase a lot of tail. Lets also remember Toumpas has been playing forward all pre season which is no really his position. In in SA days he was playing as a pure on baller. I hope this week Roos starts him on a wing and runs through the middle every now and then.

We have too many gut running to space, how about running to tackle and stick the tackle, running to get the ball and not fumbling it. I'm not just talking Toumpas here and yes we do need players running to space but it seems to be the excuse for a few players at the moment on this site.

Dal Santo is over rated. He can play but is often beaten

I like to see Toumpas coming of the half back line in due time. Playing as half forward does not suit him giving his lack of marking and contested marking power. Use the lethal kick of the half back line. And please every one shut up about pace. Yes he is lacking pace but not every footballer needs to have Usain Bolt pace. Give him break he is only 19 and one of the hardest working players at the club, ask any of the players how hard Jimmy works. He will be A grade player I'm sure of it.

Wheres Sidebottoms acceleration? or Dal Santo? Lachie Whitfield is a up and coming outside mid but I never see him accelerate from the stoppages?

Being outside elite doesn't necessary mean he have to be quick. If you have football smarts and willing to gut run that makes up for lack of pace. Dal Santo is a perfect example. Sam Mitchell who has the special mix of inside and outside has the smarts and run to play that outside role aswell.

Todays game requires constant running. To make space you need accelleration to create it. To be the first there.

Good God it's why our players haven't done it for years. They are always hurried with possesions.

Allen Jakovich had little pace but he had great accelleration in the first 5-6 steps. He created space to work in.

Todays game requires constant running. To make space you need accelleration to create it. To be the first there.

Good God it's why our players haven't done it for years. They are always hurried with possesions.

Allen Jakovich had little pace but he had great accelleration in the first 5-6 steps. He created space to work in.

Or you need smarts, or simply to run harder, it's certainly not a case of if you aren't quick you simply won't make it as an elite mid.