He's not that bad, he's certainly streets ahead of Jamar and Spencer in this area of his game. He just does't have the tank to keep at it.

I agree that his tank is his biggest hindrance at this point. However, I've said nothing of his ability to ruck. I rate his ruck work. I merely think every time we've stuck him forward this year (with the exception of our win over the Bulldogs), the opposition has run it out easily every time it hits the ground.

Spencer's issue is that he's not a great forward option. He reminds me of a Geelong style ruckman. Rucks, but can't do much else. Though I do rate his endeavour around the ground, but doesn't have that same ability that Gawn may develop to play forward.

yes that is true and will be probaly next year as well. but it is much easier to accumulate some decent mids and slowly strenghten the middle of the ground than to set up a dominating forward line.

i cant see any club giving us a mid thats worth a pick one and a mid at pick one in the draft wont chnge the midfield fortunes next season anyway. so lets take best available and accumulate some mids with our later picks.

An extremely annoying and continual fallacy.

Edited September 4, 201311 yr by AdamFarr

Yet we have 4 KPFs to fit into our team next year, and 2 good mids...

Stuie, I hear what you're saying but surely you can see that with the advent of a new recruiting team, and what will hopefully be an injection of fantastic assistant coaches along with Paul Roos, it will be much easier to identify, nurture and develop young mids from the next few drafts.

Add to that free agency this year and the trade period, things look very different to what they did a few years ago.

Hypothetically speaking, if we were gifted pick 1 this year from the AFL, I would be taking Boyd no questions at all.

None of us know how Clarke's foot will hold up going forward and it will mean Hogan can be a swing man and play both forward and back, just like Reid has been doing for the pies. Hogan's more of a natural backman anyway and played the majority of his under 18 level footy there.

Clarke, Dawes and Boyd forward

Frawley, Garland and Hogan back with McDonald as depth. (Seriously needs to work on his kicking)

That is a serious spine. You've then got Gawn and Fitz as ruckman.

That is a formidable spine and from there we can concentrate on drafting, trading and getting some Free Agents as mids over the next two or three years.

There are no absolute standout all-round gun mids this year. However there is a standout gun forward.

The only way I'd be willing to give pick 1 up is if a club were offering a seasoned A grade mid. But I can't see that happening.

I agree that his tank is his biggest hindrance at this point. However, I've said nothing of his ability to ruck. I rate his ruck work. I merely think every time we've stuck him forward this year (with the exception of our win over the Bulldogs), the opposition has run it out easily every time it hits the ground.

Spencer's issue is that he's not a great forward option. He reminds me of a Geelong style ruckman. Rucks, but can't do much else. Though I do rate his endeavour around the ground, but doesn't have that same ability that Gawn may develop to play forward.

I think you are underselling the Geelong ruckmen. Ottens was very good around the ground and forward, West whilst not as good is versatile as are Vardy and Blitz. Spencer doesn't offer a lot at the moment.

An extremely annoying and continual fallacy.

Well, no. It's not.

I agree if you're talking about us in the past.

How about Sydney though? They have never developed superstars apart from Goodes.

They have hard working, honest, tough and team oriented mids and they've got a [censored] plethora of them. That comes from development, leadership, recruiting well and club culture.

I'm pretty sure Roos and a few of his pals had some sort of influence in that.... And I'm pretty sure Roos and a few of his pals are heading our way.

It's going to be a different ball game from here on in.

Edited September 4, 201311 yr by stevethemanjordan

Take the best available! Clark while good on the park has played 13-15 games in 2 seasons, how many next year? Dawes miissed 9-10 games through injury this year (are we cursed?). From that type of scenario Hogan and Boyd would be our permanent forwards if we get PP1. I like that idea. We have other selections in the PSD and ND to shore up our mids!

Games are won with midfields. Swans, Geelong, Hawks have two large forwards and deep quality midfields. Collingwood have 1.5 large forwards and quality Midfielders...

Trade Boyd to a team with need for a large forward who are willing to give up a quality experienced midfielder.

Ps not sure why this is on the Taylor Adams thread.

Stuie, I hear what you're saying but surely you can see that with the advent of a new recruiting team, and what will hopefully be an injection of fantastic assistant coaches along with Paul Roos, it will be much easier to identify, nurture and develop young mids from the next few drafts.

Add to that free agency this year and the trade period, things look very different to what they did a few years ago.

Hypothetically speaking, if we were gifted pick 1 this year from the AFL, I would be taking Boyd no questions at all.

None of us know how Clarke's foot will hold up going forward and it will mean Hogan can be a swing man and play both forward and back, just like Reid has been doing for the pies. Hogan's more of a natural backman anyway and played the majority of his under 18 level footy there.

Clarke, Dawes and Boyd forward

Frawley, Garland and Hogan back with McDonald as depth. (Seriously needs to work on his kicking)

That is a serious spine. You've then got Gawn and Fitz as ruckman.

That is a formidable spine and from there we can concentrate on drafting, trading and getting some Free Agents as mids over the next two or three years.

There are no absolute standout all-round gun mids this year. However there is a standout gun forward.

The only way I'd be willing to give pick 1 up is if a club were offering a seasoned A grade mid. But I can't see that happening.

Yep, the recruiting team did a FANTASTIC job at the last draft, but in all honesty, as much as I like Kent, M.Jones, and Terlich, I really don't see them being the guys that will carry our midfield in the future. We have no stars, none. We don't even have any A grade mids. Must build our midfield or we are just taking another step backwards.

For a sobering look at the low quality of our midfield check out the AFL player rating gizmo (http://www.afl.com.au/afl/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#club/CD_T90/position/midfielder)...

Depressing.

An extremely annoying and continual fallacy.

No its not. A top midfield can function without an all-out star cast. a group of good hard working and hard running DECENT mids can do the job. A forward line needs guns. And the fact of the matter is there are alot more mids in any given draft (just look at any drafts first round) compared to good KPFs.

As an extension there are then more mids on the trade table than gun forwards. With a A grade spine it should be easier to attract good midfielders through trade / free agency as well.

Secondly, this draft doesnt appear to have any mids that appear to be out and out clear number 1 picks. if best available is a mid then sure , but i dont think it is and a rare opportunity to set up a dominant fwd 50 for the next decade is a golden opportunity.

Ps not sure why this is on the Taylor Adams thread.

haha, sorry mate, think that was my fault there.

Yep, the recruiting team did a FANTASTIC job at the last draft, but in all honesty, as much as I like Kent, M.Jones, and Terlich, I really don't see them being the guys that will carry our midfield in the future. We have no stars, none. We don't even have any A grade mids. Must build our midfield or we are just taking another step backwards.

You are looking at the surface Stuie.

The recruitment of Pederson, Gillies, Rodan, Byrnes etc were purely an attempt by Mark Neeld himself to bring in some experience from other clubs. Nothing to do with the recruitment department, identification of talent or development and nurturing of young players. It was about trying to change the culture a bit and clearly had no effect.

Kent, Jones and Terlich were players brought in by the recruiting dep with certain criteria that players had to have met. Again Jones and Terlich are mature age players and that was high on Neeld's priority list.

Our top end young talent was Viney and Toumpas. They were pretty good gets in my eyes.

This year will be completely different. You can't keep basing your judgement on past regimes and coaches.

We've already heard that we are going hard for Adams and Selwood. If we got them both and still had pick two and another few picks for the draft, that's a fair injection of mids.

Edited September 4, 201311 yr by stevethemanjordan

You are looking at the surface Stuie.

The recruitment of Pederson, Gillies, Rodan, Byrnes etc were purely an attempt by Mark Neeld himself to bring in some experience from other clubs. Nothing to do with the recruitment department, identification of talent or development and nurturing of young players. It was about trying to change the culture a bit and clearly had no effect.

Kent, Jones and Terlich were players brought in by the recruiting dep with certain criteria that players had to have met. Again Jones and Terlich are mature age players and that was high on Neeld's priority list.

Our top end young talent was Viney and Toumpas. They were pretty good gets in my eyes.

This year will be completely different. You can't keep basing your judgement on past regimes and coaches.

We've already heard that we are going hard for Adams and Selwood. If we got them both and still had pick two and another few picks for the draft, that's a fair injection of mids.

I was being serious, may not have come across that way given your response. Honestly think we drafted really well last year, and I love Viney and Toumpas, but we have nowhere near enough good quality mids to get anywhere.

What was the news on Adams and Selwood? we're talking seriously to both?

What was the news on Adams and Selwood? we're talking seriously to both?

From my understanding twice to Adams and once to Selwood. Bit of conjecture as to which Selwood though?

Just some stats on Taylor Adams

turns 20 in 14 days

has played 31 games

2013 averages

21.3 disposals

3.2 tackles

4.0 clearances

3.2 inside 50's

- all that in 75% time on ground.

Just some stats on Taylor Adams

turns 20 in 14 days

has played 31 games

2013 averages

21.3 disposals

3.2 tackles

4.0 clearances

3.2 inside 50's

- all that in 75% time on ground.

Doing it in a poor team meaning he could do at least that with us, lack of support would not hinder him.

Just some stats on Taylor Adams

turns 20 in 14 days

has played 31 games

2013 averages

21.3 disposals

3.2 tackles

4.0 clearances

3.2 inside 50's

- all that in 75% time on ground.

Get Adams, Scharenberg, Selwood, and Cross and we all of a sudden have a seriously tough midfield.

Adams and the Berg are must gets for us this offseason.

Just some stats on Taylor Adams

turns 20 in 14 days

has played 31 games

2013 averages

21.3 disposals

3.2 tackles

4.0 clearances

3.2 inside 50's

- all that in 75% time on ground.

Would love if MFC could do the deal to get him. Just what we need. But I wanted also Ollie Wines instead of J Toumpas

Get Adams, Scharenberg, Selwood, and Cross and we all of a sudden have a seriously tough midfield.

Adams and the Berg are must gets for us this offseason.

Would be a great offseason if we managed that.

Games are won with midfields. Swans, Geelong, Hawks have two large forwards and deep quality midfields. Collingwood have 1.5 large forwards and quality Midfielders...

Trade Boyd to a team with need for a large forward who are willing to give up a quality experienced midfielder.

Ps not sure why this is on the Taylor Adams thread.

Don't agree, well big games anyway. Why do you think Geelong is still persisting with an injured Hawkins? Take Cloke out of Collingwood and see how many games they win, lucky for them he is very durable.

You need a balanced team and I think our forward combination is nowhere near as good as others here see it, particularly as the key component can't get on the ground.

It's very, very hard to get a quality forward and if we get the chance we take it.

Don't agree, well big games anyway. Why do you think Geelong is still persisting with an injured Hawkins? Take Cloke out of Collingwood and see how many games they win, lucky for them he is very durable.

You need a balanced team and I think our forward combination is nowhere near as good as others here see it, particularly as the key component can't get on the ground.

It's very, very hard to get a quality forward and if we get the chance we take it.

It would also allow us to shift Clark into the ruck (should he get back on the field) which bolsters our midfield anyway. If he doesn't get back on the field then we'll need another forward anyway. Initially I was totally opposed to getting Boyd if we do get a PP1 but reading this thread has changed my mind, especially if we can trade in a mid or two anyway.

I think you are underselling the Geelong ruckmen. Ottens was very good around the ground and forward, West whilst not as good is versatile as are Vardy and Blitz. Spencer doesn't offer a lot at the moment.

Ottens was fantastic. No one has been able to offer what Geelong have needed since.

Well, no. It's not.

I agree if you're talking about us in the past.

How about Sydney though? They have never developed superstars apart from Goodes.

They have hard working, honest, tough and team oriented mids and they've got a [censored] plethora of them. That comes from development, leadership, recruiting well and club culture.

I'm pretty sure Roos and a few of his pals had some sort of influence in that.... And I'm pretty sure Roos and a few of his pals are heading our way.

It's going to be a different ball game from here on in.

In my 26 years on this fine planet, we've never had a superstar at the MFC. I agree, Roos' track record would suggest it's possible we may start to develop some.

No its not. A top midfield can function without an all-out star cast. a group of good hard working and hard running DECENT mids can do the job. A forward line needs guns. And the fact of the matter is there are alot more mids in any given draft (just look at any drafts first round) compared to good KPFs.

As an extension there are then more mids on the trade table than gun forwards. With a A grade spine it should be easier to attract good midfielders through trade / free agency as well.

Secondly, this draft doesnt appear to have any mids that appear to be out and out clear number 1 picks. if best available is a mid then sure , but i dont think it is and a rare opportunity to set up a dominant fwd 50 for the next decade is a golden opportunity.

Let me be clear. I agree that we should be taking Boyd if we have access to him. I've said that all along. But, we won't have an A grade spine without controlling the ball (the midfield), so it's a catch-22. Anyway, I think we agree on the rarity of good KPFs.

Hope i don't get shot down for this, but thoughts on a potential trade of

Mfc trade pick 3 to GWS for Taylor Adams and pick 10?

Hope i don't get shot down for this, but thoughts on a potential trade of

Mfc trade pick 3 to GWS for Taylor Adams and pick 10?

It's been mentioned a few times by others and is clearly worthy of consideration.