I too have strong Labor roots, Robbie.

My Great Grandfather was a strong Catholic Labor man and once Mayor of Collingwood, subsequently a Branch President, and friends with Archbishop Mannix and the like. I even had an elderly Great Uncle, who I'd barely met, show me a note he'd been given by Prime Minister Bob Hawke. The excitement in his eyes was palpable. He kept the note close by in his wallet to show anyone who was interested. And anyone who wasn't. Me.

But smarter siblings and relatives quickly recognised Labor for what it is. A group of self-interested unionists who are beholden to branch stacking mates. A party whose premise is supposedly to look after the worker, but all they do is screw business. A party who stands for nothing accept holding onto power. A party whose fallen leader 3 years ago states through misty eyes that he doesn't want his party lurching to the right. But does exactly that when the political mood suits him. A leader who spoke of the greatest moral challenge in his lifetime, only to conveniently kick it back under the door. Labor stands for nothing.

Do I think much of the current Liberals ? No. But we'll see what they've got.

However, I will always support a party whose ideology is to give every individual the chance to be the best they can. Not a socialist party in the pocket of the unions. One party governs for all and the other makes policy on the run.

Edited August 17, 201311 yr by Ben-Hur

I too have strong Labor roots, Robbie.

My Great Grandfather was a strong Catholic Labor man and once Mayor of Collingwood, subsequently a Branch President, and friends with Archbishop Mannix and the like. I even had an elderly Great Uncle, who I'd barely met, show me a note he'd been given by Prime Minister Bob Hawke. The excitement in his eyes was palpable. He kept the note close by in his wallet to show anyone who was interested. And anyone who wasn't. Me.

But smarter siblings and relatives quickly recognised Labor for what it is. A group of self-interested unionists who are beholden to branch stacking mates. A party whose premise is supposedly to look after the worker, but all they do is screw business. A party who stands for nothing accept holding onto power. A party whose fallen leader 3 years ago states through misty eyes that he doesn't want his party lurching to the right. But does exactly that when the political mood suits him. A leader who spoke of the greatest moral challenge in his lifetime, only to conveniently kick it back under the door. Labor stands for nothing.

Do I think much of the current Liberals ? No. But we'll see what they've got.

However, I will always support a party whose ideology is to give every individual the chance to be the best they can. Not a socialist party in the pocket of the unions. One party governs for all and the other makes policy on the run.

The Labor Party ceased to represent the worker many years ago, when the started to recruit lawyers who had never worked a day in their life, to run the party.

The Greens and the others represent the idiots and fringe like biffin who never take money from the government, but thrust their hand out as soon as it's offered (baby bonus) then criticise the government for offering it in the first place; there is a word for that. These are the ones who have no desire to get off their ass and make something of themselves (biffin) they would prefer someone else to do it for them and just hand them the cash so they can sit in the pub and drink their brain cels away with their mates. They all get together at the local and put [censored] on those that do put in and do want to be successful and provide them with a job and a living.

The problem with envy is that it can be all consuming and the Labor party and the greens have that in spades.

I think the rot started with the pop star Whitlam and has continued on since then, they are more interested in celebrity and what's in it for them, not what they can do for someone else, like the voters and people of Australia. Snouts in the trough, look at Beattie, a failure as a premier rewarded with a job in New York at $300k+ a year.

I voted for Gough several times and now I look back I regret it.

You are right, the Labor Party stands for nothing and the supporters are continually fooled by the brand; it no longer represents them.

The Greens are welcome to their idiot fringe, I doubt any party would like to be seen to represent them, they are the takers and the ones who add the least value to society.

Both sides are a joke. I wrote this post on my site last night after a few beers after it hit me that neither man has come out and said "I'm the man".

It is disappointing that these two guys are the only REALISTIC options to lead the country.

You can read it here: http://www.thepeptalk.com.au/the-worst-election-campaign-in-australian-history/

I agree that both sides are a joke. We've heard ad nauseum about the boats, border protection and the hundreds of millions it will costs us. But we hear little of our farmers, retailers, manufacturers (other than the car industry) et al that have beeing doing it tough for years, that will continue without support. There's not a level playing field for Australian businesses, we don't hold imports, pariculalrly food, to the same standards. And as far as giving retailers a little help with charging GST and duties on personally imported goods, well, it's just too hard for them (And no I'm not impying that it will instantly make our retailers more cometitive, but it will at least level the playing field somewhat).

I agree that both sides are a joke. We've heard ad nauseum about the boats, border protection and the hundreds of millions it will costs us. But we hear little of our farmers, retailers, manufacturers (other than the car industry) et al that have beeing doing it tough for years, that will continue without support. There's not a level playing field for Australian businesses, we don't hold imports, pariculalrly food, to the same standards. And as far as giving retailers a little help with charging GST and duties on personally imported goods, well, it's just too hard for them (And no I'm not impying that it will instantly make our retailers more cometitive, but it will at least level the playing field somewhat).

Great post.

Rather than gifting hundreds of millions to the car industry why don't we support the backbone of this country, our farmers ?

Jeez you're good.

You're defending Swan, who repeatedly said there'd be a surplus, when everyone knew there wouldn't be. Time after time he maintained there would be a surplus when it was patently obvious he couldn't deliver. You seem to conveniently overlook the blatant and embarrassing lies of this party. Typical.

Also, it's not just that there's a deficit, which in itself isn't a major problem, especially if the spending has helped drive the economy, although, as stated, they wasted billions as usual, but it's the continual changing of the deficit amount. How many billions of dollars did it change over a 3 month period ? And how many times did the figure change in that 3 months ? And how concerned were you by the goal posts that were majorly shifting ? Did you not raise your eyebrow ? No, probably not. You're a party drone. Which is why you're not worth bothering with.

But as stated, if you're keen on the carbon dioxide rort, there's a specific thread for it. Go and bump it and knock yourself out.

"there will never ever be a GST...Never ever.." Who said that ? Umm.. Just saying...

"there will never ever be a GST...Never ever.." Who said that ? Umm.. Just saying...

Who had the courage to change his mind and then run with it as a major policy during an election ? Which is very different to saying there won't be one and then immediately changing your mind post election.

Abbott has a Bachelor of Economics a Bachelor of Laws and a Master of Arts as a Rhodes Scholar Queens College Oxford so I dare say that he is far more intelligent than those on here criticizing him.

The fact that they would prefer Rudd, who is a self absorbed twit of the highest order, just confirms the stupidity of some.

That one poster has started his abuse of Abbott with the fact that he said one of his candidates has sex appeal confirms that stupidity, all the big issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Abbott

BTW Rudd has a Bachelor of Arts Asian Studies, very impressive.

As far as I am concerned .. Throughout my life I have found that Academic qualifications have not always automatically meant the person holding them is necessarily a better person than someone without them nor does it always mean they are more intelligent in most general everyday life experiences. I have met many well academically "qualified" people who haven't had a clue about life in general and were in fact quite oblivious to what was going on around them.. I most times prefer the opinions of people who have generally experienced life and not those "sheltered " from reality as I believe Rudd and particularly Abbott have been. They don't live in the "real world"....They just do their best to try and stuff it up for those that do..... and they are doing a good job of that.. (in my opinion)

Who had the courage to change his mind and then run with it as a major policy during an election ? Which is very different to saying there won't be one and then immediately changing your mind post election.

I am not here to start arguing with the likes of you all day and do not intend doing so . I am not a Greeny and at this stage support neither major party but I have read enough of your "political" posts to come to the conclusion that nothing would pursuade you to change your Liberal views and I do not intend trying. You may call it courage when referring to Howard changing his mind on the GST but I see it as typical of a Politician breaking an unrealistic promise as the one relating to the GST proved to be. Howard's courage was on the same level as his cricket bowling ability .....non existent...as the whole country saw...in his "nerdy" attempt to convince people he had some idea of how to play cricket.. He was a proven liar and was defeated by a feeble little ABC journalist.. How shameful.. What a great way for a super egotist to be thrown out of Politics.. I know also from your previous posts that you will want to have the last word with me on this matter but I assure you I am having it now, as I will not be acknowledging any further remarks directed at me from you. The way you generalize by calling people fools etc etc because they disagree with you does not warrant me wasting any more of my time trying to discuss anything with you.. Have a nice future with Tony Abbott..

,

The Labor Party ceased to represent the worker many years ago, when the started to recruit lawyers who had never worked a day in their life, to run the party.

The Greens and the others represent the idiots and fringe like biffin who never take money from the government, but thrust their hand out as soon as it's offered (baby bonus) then criticise the government for offering it in the first place; there is a word for that. These are the ones who have no desire to get off their ass and make something of themselves (biffin) they would prefer someone else to do it for them and just hand them the cash so they can sit in the pub and drink their brain cels away with their mates. They all get together at the local and put [censored] on those that do put in and do want to be successful and provide them with a job and a living.

The problem with envy is that it can be all consuming and the Labor party and the greens have that in spades.

I think the rot started with the pop star Whitlam and has continued on since then, they are more interested in celebrity and what's in it for them, not what they can do for someone else, like the voters and people of Australia. Snouts in the trough, look at Beattie, a failure as a premier rewarded with a job in New York at $300k+ a year.

I voted for Gough several times and now I look back I regret it.

You are right, the Labor Party stands for nothing and the supporters are continually fooled by the brand; it no longer represents them.

The Greens are welcome to their [censored] fringe, I doubt any party would like to be seen to represent them, they are the takers and the ones who add the least value to society.

You should get a job on radio 3RWF.

You know nothing of my political stance nor my employment status .

Nobody is envious of you Robbie because you are a nuffy.

You are a sad and bitter thicko who needs help immediately.

I wasn't going to go back to this thread but someone alerted me to the crap you posted about me.

Firstly I was born in to a working class family and raised by my father who was a shop steward in the Tramways board where he worked as a painter. He was a real Labor man who would turn in his grave to see what it's turned in to now and he would be appalled at the imbeciles like you who would support it in its current form.

As far as my conservative background and getting everything handed to me, I actually worked 3 jobs at one time to support my family while I was getting my business up and about and unlike you I never complained about it. I've always paid my way and never received a cent of Government money for my kids or my house which I doubt you could say, I'd bet you've been on the public purse most of your life, in one way or another.

So I've never ridden on anyone's back, unlike you, who seem to have some sort of unhealthy fetish for Alpacas and I doubt I'll beat you to the old people's home but if I did I would respect for them because they are the ones who have paid their taxes and made life easier for the ones that followed.

Now off you go and fiddle with a few more Alpacas, that's if they still give you the time of day and don't fart in your face if you put it in the wrong place.

I'm a bit worried about you Robbie. Why did you bring up alpacas. So here's something to help you out. Forget Biffen and put yourself in this fellow's pants.

I am not here to start arguing with the likes of you all day and do not intend doing so . I am not a Greeny and at this stage support neither major party but I have read enough of your "political" posts to come to the conclusion that nothing would pursuade you to change your Liberal views and I do not intend trying. You may call it courage when referring to Howard changing his mind on the GST but I see it as typical of a Politician breaking an unrealistic promise as the one relating to the GST proved to be. Howard's courage was on the same level as his cricket bowling ability .....non existent...as the whole country saw...in his "nerdy" attempt to convince people he had some idea of how to play cricket.. He was a proven liar and was defeated by a feeble little ABC journalist.. How shameful.. What a great way for a super egotist to be thrown out of Politics.. I know also from your previous posts that you will want to have the last word with me on this matter but I assure you I am having it now, as I will not be acknowledging any further remarks directed at me from you. The way you generalize by calling people fools etc etc because they disagree with you does not warrant me wasting any more of my time trying to discuss anything with you.. Have a nice future with Tony Abbott..

,

But fool, he went to an election with GST as his policy. Went to an election. Got it ? See the difference ?

Chews gum and walks, chews gum and walks, chews...

But fool, he went to an election with GST as his policy. Went to an election. Got it ? See the difference ?

Chews gum and walks, chews gum and walks, chews...

That doesn't mean it was a popular platform... in fact, Howard did use the pledge that he would never ever introduce a GST, ensuring a solid '96 election victory; yet a mere 2 years later, he introduced the "never ever" tax with the result that there was a swing of approx 4.5% or so against the Libs in the '98 elections (where Labor received more of the primary vote).

Edited August 19, 201311 yr by hardtack

Both are pathetic and their big plans for the country seem to amount to nothing beyond "I want to be Prime Minister because I want to be Prime Minister and besides the other guy is way worse."

David Marr probably put it best when he said that the contest is between two false identities. Rudd is a contradictory, odd, bordering on antisocial personality whose colleagues were stunned when he ran for pre-selection in the late 90's because he seemed to be morbidly terrified of talking to anybody. Whereas Abbott's personality is tempered by the nature of politics - the public wont cop any policies from him that have a faint hint of his religion (rightly or wrongly) and his party won't support him on the social justice causes that he believes in.

However, given it isn't a presidential style of government and parties tend to change leaders on a whim - I'd suggest voters should decide their vote upon the basis of the best candidate for their electorate. Not Tony Abbott or Kevin Rudd.

alpaca fetish.jpg

I'm a bit worried about you Robbie. Why did you bring up alpacas. So here's something to help you out. Forget Biffen and put yourself in this fellow's pants.

I've got Biffin on ignore after he sent the following PM to me.

Au Revoir ,

Grand Connard.

Enjoy your ugly wife and your Pensioner tour.

Hope you choke on your pate and die.

BTW-you are a Homo and I thought you were ignoring me.

Go away now-stalker.

He is a mate of your's isn't he? Nice company you keep if he is.

I've got Biffin on ignore after he sent the following PM to me.

Au Revoir ,

Grand Connard.

Enjoy your ugly wife and your Pensioner tour.

Hope you choke on your pate and die.

BTW-you are a Homo and I thought you were ignoring me.

Go away now-stalker.

He is a mate of your's isn't he? Nice company you keep if he is.

Yes, if that's a direct quote RF, then that is completely unnecessary. People need to remember that when all is said and done, this is just a forum!

I've got Biffin on ignore after he sent the following PM to me.

Au Revoir ,

Grand Connard.

Enjoy your ugly wife and your Pensioner tour.

Hope you choke on your pate and die.

BTW-you are a Homo and I thought you were ignoring me.

Go away now-stalker.

He is a mate of your's isn't he? Nice company you keep if he is.

Cant believe a winner like you is posting personal messages in a public forum.

You started sending the rude ones sweetheart.

Cant believe you are wasting your holiday sending hate mail to me, the greens, dole bludgers etc when you are in France.

Get a life -Stop stalking you weirdo.

Give your wife some attention.

Freak.

I have asked you to stop stalking several times.

Edited August 19, 201311 yr by Biffen

Yes, if that's a direct quote RF, then that is completely unnecessary. People need to remember that when all is said and done, this is just a forum!

Let's get this straight-Robbie took things to personal messenger and got rude.

Then when he couldn't handle it he went public-now he is stalking me like a jilted lover.

The guy is a fruitcake

All over Tony Abbotts Seminary Scholarship.

No more politics.

I will publish his strange homo-erotic personal messages tonight when I return from work to put things in context.

...

Fair enough.... politics & religion (sigh)

That doesn't mean it was a popular platform... in fact, Howard did use the pledge that he would never ever introduce a GST, ensuring a solid '96 election victory; yet a mere 2 years later, he introduced the "never ever" tax with the result that there was a swing of approx 4.5% or so against the Libs in the '98 elections (where Labor received more of the primary vote).

Thank you for that brief and accurate portrayal of the truth hardtrack.. As promised I am not going to waste any more time replying to the biased and name calling Ben Hur. and I keep my promises.. not like John Howard and surprise surprise .. I was immediately called a "fool" by Ben Hur... Of course I am a fool for wasting my time with him in the first pace,..I knew from his previous posts that neither reason or common sense was part of his culture .I have learned that arguing about politics or religion with a "dyed in the woo"l Liberal or a person committed to a certain religious belief is a complete waste of time..I don't believe I was arguing ..I was originally stating a point of view until Ben Hur decided to get personal as he always does with anyone on this site he chooses not to agree with..

Yes, if that's a direct quote RF, then that is completely unnecessary. People need to remember that when all is said and done, this is just a forum!

That was a direct quote and the reference to my wife was beyond the pale, there was another reference as well. I particularly dislike the term homo and a later one of poof; as you know I have a gay son and these derogatory terms don't belong in modern society. At least we know where he would stand on Gay Marriage.

I've never been frightened of a bit of an argument and it was heated but once you get down to this level it's not on.

Plus I had him on ignore but he was still able to get PM's through, not sure how that works.

That doesn't mean it was a popular platform... in fact, Howard did use the pledge that he would never ever introduce a GST, ensuring a solid '96 election victory; yet a mere 2 years later, he introduced the "never ever" tax with the result that there was a swing of approx 4.5% or so against the Libs in the '98 elections (where Labor received more of the primary vote).

The fact that he pledged he wouldn't made it even more politically dangerous and courageous to take it to an election.

You may consider it a calculated gamble, but plenty of other politicians wouldn't have tried. Especially the ones on your side. And don't pretend it's not your side.

The fact that he pledged he wouldn't made it even more politically dangerous and courageous to take it to an election.

You may consider it a calculated gamble, but plenty of other politicians wouldn't have tried. Especially the ones on your side. And don't pretend it's not your side.

It was a lie to ensure the party retained power, followed by a calculated gamble that almost lost the party power - but it seems you have no truck with a lie when it is initiated from the "right" side - no surprises there.

And what does it matter which "side" I am on... you seem to be the one interested in creating division based on which party someone chooses to follow. Just as you somehow try to justify your right wing leanings by "claiming" to come from an ALP background, my father was a staunch "rusted on" Liberal...big deal - totally meaningless and irrelevant!

It was a lie to ensure the party retained power, followed by a calculated gamble that almost lost the party power - but it seems you have no truck with a lie when it is initiated from the "right" side - no surprises there.

And what does it matter which "side" I am on... you seem to be the one interested in creating division based on which party someone chooses to follow. Just as you somehow try to justify your right wing leanings by "claiming" to come from an ALP background, my father was a staunch "rusted on" Liberal...big deal - totally meaningless and irrelevant!

I don't come from an ALP background. My parents were too intelligent. None of us believe in socialism. I merely referred to old roots in light of Robbie's post. Unsurprisingly, that escaped you.

Howard didn't "lie". He changed his mind and risked his prime ministership. He believed in taxation reform. Sure, he sniffed the breeze, but he was a politician who believed in standing for something. He risked a lot. I'm not surprised you don't get it.

We have a fraud of a prime minister, who makes uncosted policy decisions on the run, believes in nothing accept seeming like he's doing something, has a plethora of his own cabinet ministers walk out once he wins back the leadership, blew a massive surplus with mindless over spending only to be saved by China and a mining boom, is responsible for changing a border policy that worked (only for a thousand lives to be lost at sea) that he's now trying to fix, and who'll go down as either the worst or second worst prime minister in history. And you're worried about Abbott ?

Left wing 101 for dunces.

The Tory, Labor and truth-seeking media commentary on debt is a blinkered insult to people who slaving their guts out through their working lives. The public debt melodrama is but a small part of the big picture. What about the massive - and growing - PRIVATE FOREIGN DEBT. This issue truly crosses party lines. We as a nation live well beyond our means and it is not just government largesse via middle-class welfare of the Howard era, baby pay of the proposed Abbott gig, or the tendency to spend more on services of the centre-left parties. The libs bang on about government debt because they want to protect self-interest. you never hear them talking about the amount of money being borrowed off-shore to prop up the shop here in Australia. And to think Ron Barassi, Brian Dixon and Ray Groom were my footballing idols. The net total $$$ Australia owes to the rest of the world is fast approaching $800 billion, will this get in the news in the next few weeks? I doubt it.

: http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/