What do you call a spear without a head?

[Stingray 157]

What do you call a spear without a head? A stick.

That's how i see the D's at present. Solid back line. Tick. Improving mid-field work ethic and effectiveness (although our tackle count yesterday didnt really reflect this). Tick. Dangerous forward line - erm.....what forward line?? Yesterday's stats speak volumes when we had more dipsosals and 12 more inside 50's yet had 10 less score shots on the board. The same theme happened against North. I know this is no surprise to any demons fan - we havent had a forward line for a very long time now - yet i struggle to see what the club has done about it or where we might develop some effectiveness this year or, more importantly, who is going to put their hand up this year and provide us with some weaponry?

Stick's are pretty handy. You can beat plenty of things with a stick (Port Adelaide for example, and GWS I'm sure) but ultimately - like the Spartan's, effective warriors dont use sticks. They use a spear.

[45HG 1,559]

What's a stick without a body?

To steal a line from other Landers, our midfield is third world and has been for years. Slowly it is improving but it's no where near where it needs to be for us to win a flag. Or even challenge for the 8.

[stuie 7,374]

What do you call a spear without a head? A stick.

That's how i see the D's at present. Solid back line. Tick. Improving mid-field work ethic and effectiveness (although our tackle count yesterday didnt really reflect this). Tick. Dangerous forward line - erm.....what forward line?? Yesterday's stats speak volumes when we had more dipsosals and 12 more inside 50's yet had 10 less score shots on the board. The same theme happened against North. I know this is no surprise to any demons fan - we havent had a forward line for a very long time now - yet i struggle to see what the club has done about it or where we might develop some effectiveness this year or, more importantly, who is going to put their hand up this year and provide us with some weaponry?

Stick's are pretty handy. You can beat plenty of things with a stick (Port Adelaide for example, and GWS I'm sure) but ultimately - like the Spartan's, effective warriors dont use sticks. They use a spear.

Have you been asleep for two years? Heard of Clark, Dawes, Hogan, Byrnes, Rodan, Pedersen? All forwards who have been recruited in the last 2 years and the two most important ones (as well as others like Blease) did not play yesterday.

[P-man 13,366]

I kinda feel like I'm pointing out the obvious here but yesterday we were missing our two key talls in Clark and Dawes. You throw those two into the forward line and the conversion rate from going inside our attacking 50 yesterday starts looking alot healthier.

You fail to see what the club has done to address its forward woes? Really? So recruiting fairly big names in Clark and Dawes isn't enough, nor is using a number 3 draft pick on one of the most promising young key forwards to come through the ranks in many a year in Jesse Hogan, nor is what looks to be the handy acquisition of Dean Kent who as a medium forward is already showing he has the ability to impact the scoreboard, nor is the recruitment of mature players in Byrnes, Rodan and Pedersen, all of whom are there to address last year's issue of lack of scoreboard pressure. What more do you suggest the club does?

The forward line is not the greatest issue, not even close. In fact it's fair to say that a forward line with Clark, Hogan, Dawes, Howe, Kent and Barry could eventually become the envy of the competition. The issue has been the midfield for some time, and it will continue to be until the youngsters can develop and one or two more A graders emerge or are acquired externally.

[Hannibal 5,814]

What do you call a spear without a head? A stick.

That's how i see the D's at present. Solid back line. Tick. Improving mid-field work ethic and effectiveness (although our tackle count yesterday didnt really reflect this). Tick. Dangerous forward line - erm.....what forward line?? Yesterday's stats speak volumes when we had more dipsosals and 12 more inside 50's yet had 10 less score shots on the board. The same theme happened against North. I know this is no surprise to any demons fan - we havent had a forward line for a very long time now - yet i struggle to see what the club has done about it or where we might develop some effectiveness this year or, more importantly, who is going to put their hand up this year and provide us with some weaponry?

Stick's are pretty handy. You can beat plenty of things with a stick (Port Adelaide for example, and GWS I'm sure) but ultimately - like the Spartan's, effective warriors dont use sticks. They use a spear.

Good first post.

You look at the Saints and they had dangerous small forwards in Milne, Millera, and Dennis-Lane. Thankfully Saad didn't play. We missed Kent today, which says something, as he's never played a game. The lack of goal kicking half-forwards is a massive worry.

[Whispering_Jack 30,674]

We missed Kent today, which says something, as he's never played a game. The lack of goal kicking half-forwards is a massive worry.

Let's not forget also that apart from Clark and Dawes being missing, Sam Blease kicked five goals against the Saints when we last played against them.

[stuie 7,374]

Good first post.

You look at the Saints and they had dangerous small forwards in Milne, Millera, and Dennis-Lane. Thankfully Saad didn't play. We missed Kent today, which says something, as he's never played a game. The lack of goal kicking half-forwards is a massive worry.

Gee Ben do you think we also missed Clark and Dawes? Maybe even more than Kent? Possibly maybe even missed Blease? Nah nah, you're right as always, our 2 leading goalkickers and our new senior key forward were no big loss, it was Kent we were relying on....

[P-man 13,366]

Good first post.

You look at the Saints and they had dangerous small forwards in Milne, Millera, and Dennis-Lane. Thankfully Saad didn't play. We missed Kent today, which says something, as he's never played a game. The lack of goal kicking half-forwards is a massive worry.

Ben, you provide interesting input here but you are also the first to throw around the label of "footy stupid". Indeed few seem to meet the bar that you set. Yet when someone says we've done nothing to address the forward line or questions where effectiveness might develop, which flies in the face of the facts, you call it a good post?

[stuie 7,374]

Ben, you provide interesting input here but you are also the first to throw around the label of "footy stupid". Indeed few seem to meet the bar that you set. Yet when someone says we've done nothing to address the forward line or questions where effectiveness might develop, which flies in the face of the facts, you call it a good post?

It's because he's smarter than everyone else. He "gets it", we just don't.

[wisedog 352]

It's been fantastic to see a coach who's been proactive about addressing the holes in our list.

Under Daniher, we had the opposite problem. Great forward line, but our defence was a shambles. We were crying out for quality key defenders but it was never addressed with any real intent. Maybe he was spooked after the Heffernan/Moorcroft failures.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Let's not forget also that apart from Clark and Dawes being missing, Sam Blease kicked five goals against the Saints when we last played against them.

I want to see Blease up the ground more where he can break open the play. His skills will be wasted as a small forward, imo.

We're crying out for classy small goal kickers, so Blease will play forward. In time I hope he's sprinting down a wing.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[Hannibal 5,814]

Gee Ben do you think we also missed Clark and Dawes? Maybe even more than Kent? Possibly maybe even missed Blease? Nah nah, you're right as always, our 2 leading goalkickers and our new senior key forward were no big loss, it was Kent we were relying on....

Of course we did. No need to point out the bleeding obvious. Our dearth of quality smalls though is a genuine issue.

I'd put you on ignore, but I'd miss the laughs.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[Stingray 157]

Funny you should ask if I've been away for 2 years as that is exactly correct! Which is why I've signed up here to catch up on where the d's are at with some genuine insight. It's also why my question was a genuine one. I totally agree Clark is a good player - I just feel for him as it seems he'll have to lift the weight alone again. One man a forward line is not. For despite all hi excuses about his poor year last year I'm afraid Dawes best days are well and truly done. But have taken some confidence that you all seem to believe otherwise. Hope I'm wrong!

Be great to hear of any other young players that can genuinely stand up and be dangerous this year? Sellar's performance against port was definitely encouraging, anyone else?

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Welcome aboard Stingray.

Whilst we clearly had a VFL standard forward line last year, I think we should have a reasonable forward line this year. Clark's form will be key though - I just hope his injury interrupted pre season won't cruel his performance too much this year.

A forward line consisting of Dawes, Byrnes, Clark, Howe, Davey, Sellar/Pedersen is not all that bad, particularly with the likes of Sylvia, Blease and Kent playing in the forward half too. The delivery into it is obviously important though, so I still see our main issue being the midfield and the quality of the forward 50 entries will likely determine how sharp the head of the spear will be.

As an aside, I had expected far more from Pedersen (early days I know), but his form to date has underwhelmed me. In fact, I think Sellar is in front of him, and that's not a great sign given that we offloaded Gysberts to get him and given that Sellar was probably more of a backline option for us going into this pre season.

[stuie 7,374]

Funny you should ask if I've been away for 2 years as that is exactly correct! Which is why I've signed up here to catch up on where the d's are at with some genuine insight. It's also why my question was a genuine one. I totally agree Clark is a good player - I just feel for him as it seems he'll have to lift the weight alone again. One man a forward line is not. For despite all hi excuses about his poor year last year I'm afraid Dawes best days are well and truly done. But have taken some confidence that you all seem to believe otherwise. Hope I'm wrong!

Be great to hear of any other young players that can genuinely stand up and be dangerous this year? Sellar's performance against port was definitely encouraging, anyone else?

Howe, Blease, Byrnes, Rodan, Sylvia, Pedersen, Sellar and more will all get decent cracks in the forward line this year IMO.

Dawes is still only young (25?) so I don't think he's done, but you're right, it's hard to see him dominating, but that's not his role, his role is to be a target and throw his weight around to take some of that pressure off Mitch to have to do everything.

I want to see Blease up the ground more where he can break open the play. His skills will be wasted as a small forward, imo.

We're crying out for classy small goal kickers, so Blease will play forward. In time I hope he's sprinting down a wing.

Yeah he's being wasted kicking all those goals... lol

[Hannibal 5,814]

...Yeah he's being wasted kicking all those goals... lol

Yeah, he is.

Remind me where we finished on the ladder ? Remind me how many goals those games won for us ? Remind me if we won the game where he kicked 5 ?

Remind me where games of footy are won ? The midfield. That's where he'll be most value, Stu.

Keep following me Stu and you may learn something. Big ask, I know.

[stuie 7,374]

Yeah, he is.

Remind me where we finished on the ladder ? Remind me how many goals those games won for us ? Remind me if we won the game where he kicked 5 ?

Remind me where games of footy are won ? The midfield. That's where he'll be most value, Stu.

Keep following me Stu and you may learn something. Big ask, I know.

Remind me what our average score was last year....?

Neeld went after Dawes, Byrnes, Rodan, Hogan... do you think maybe he knows we need goal kickers?

[P-man 13,366]

Funny you should ask if I've been away for 2 years as that is exactly correct! Which is why I've signed up here to catch up on where the d's are at with some genuine insight. It's also why my question was a genuine one. I totally agree Clark is a good player - I just feel for him as it seems he'll have to lift the weight alone again. One man a forward line is not. For despite all hi excuses about his poor year last year I'm afraid Dawes best days are well and truly done. But have taken some confidence that you all seem to believe otherwise. Hope I'm wrong!

Be great to hear of any other young players that can genuinely stand up and be dangerous this year? Sellar's performance against port was definitely encouraging, anyone else?

For someone whose been under a rock for 2 years you seem to know alot about the burden on Clark and the 2012 form of Dawes..

Rest assured, our forward line will be alot better this year for the very thing you point out - the entire burden will no longer be on Clark with the injection of Dawes, Pedersen and the surprising form of Sellar. Big bodies who can at the very least bring the ball to ground for the likes of Howe, Byrnes, Kent, Rodan, Davey and Blease to have an opportunity to capitalise. Blease I see as more of an outside runner but he will still be a weapon in front of goal. Dom Barry was drafted to fill that small forward hole long term.

I also think Howe could take his game to a new level beyond highlight reel specialist this year. That's my hope.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Remind me what our average score was last year....?

Neeld went after Dawes, Byrnes, Rodan, Hogan... do you think maybe he knows we need goal kickers?

Is this a trick question ?

We needed a small forward, so Byrnes helps and we needed tall timber to create contests and kick goals. Neeld has seen how having two big forwards helps a teams structure. It's a no brainer.

But I see Blease in the Lewis Jetta role. He'll still be able to kick goals, but he's more value cutting teams apart in the midfield.

[stuie 7,374]

Is this a trick question ?

We needed a small forward, so Byrnes helps and we needed tall timber to create contests and kick goals. Neeld has seen how having two big forwards helps a teams structure. It's a no brainer.

But I see Blease in the Lewis Jetta role. He'll still be able to kick goals, but he's more value cutting teams apart in the midfield.

I think we're just disagreeing cos we don't like each other... haha

[Hannibal 5,814]

I think we're just disagreeing cos we don't like each other... haha

I'm not so petty.

I'm disagreeing, because I disagree. I look forward to seeing Blease up on a wing and you prefer him roaming the forward-line.

[Webber 10,538]

Yeah, he is. Remind me where we finished on the ladder ? Remind me how many goals those games won for us ? Remind me if we won the game where he kicked 5 ? Remind me where games of footy are won ? The midfield. That's where he'll be most value, Stu. Keep following me Stu and you may learn something. Big ask, I know.

Firstly, you and Stuie should just get a room. I'm pretty sure that most on here find your slagging matches simply tiring, and what's worse..........boring. Try giving it a rest.

Secondly, the idea that we have a chronic lack of forward firepower based on yesterday is too obviously ignoring who wasn't there to be serious. Clark and Blease were our most effective forwards last year, whether you like Blease up front or not. Dawes was brought to the club to be a forward, and that's our 3 best or most nominal forwards not playing.

What do you imagine would happen to ANY team's firepower if you take away their best 3 forwards?

Was the OP serious, because I don't understand the logic of the criticism.

[P-man 13,366]

The sexual tension between you two is palpable..

Agree with Benjamin re Blease's role. He becomes much more of an asset through the midfield with his speed and disposal. Still needs to add a bit of bulk.

Blease will be a long term quality player. Hell, even David King rates him, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't rate any of our other players aside from Mitch.

[DeeSpencer 26,082]

We need a small forward to replace Davey. Byrnes and Blease are more natural half forward flankers same as Kent. The problem is dangerous small forwards don't grow on trees. Saad is a nice type but Milera and Dennis Lane don't scare decent defenders. I hope we get one in the draft at some point.

However our current forward line (at full strength) can be very effective if we get some proper delivery which means attacking ball movement from half back and through the midfield and creating turnovers.

In some way its the forward lines fault for not getting enough forward pressure on to get repeat entries. In others if our half backs and midfielders cover the outlets its makes it easier for our forwards to get pressure on.

We're a systemically bad team. Bringing in a few more forwards will help, just as bolstering the competition for defenders will help, but we are still a long way from just having an isolated problem.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Firstly, you and Stuie should just get a room. I'm pretty sure that most on here find your slagging matches simply tiring, and what's worse..........boring. Try giving it a rest.

Secondly, the idea that we have a chronic lack of forward firepower based on yesterday is too obviously ignoring who wasn't there to be serious. Clark and Blease were our most effective forwards last year, whether you like Blease up front or not. Dawes was brought to the club to be a forward, and that's our 3 best or most nominal forwards not playing.

What do you imagine would happen to ANY team's firepower if you take away their best 3 forwards?

Was the OP serious, because I don't understand the logic of the criticism.

Firstly, I spend too much time responding to those that snipe at me when my posts aren't directed at them. I'm doing it again now.

Secondly, I'm not basing my opinion on our lack of quality smalls based on yesterday's game. Myself and others have commented on it ad nauseum for a long time now. Byrnes was needed, but he's not enough.