Ingeniokinetic. I have no doubt what you suggest as being the case isnt far from what happened. None of which actually goes to the thinking ( or lack there of ) and decision making as it panned out.

Its not a case of some of us suggesting wowserism to be the law of the day, far from it. Want a beer or three, yeah why not. As with everything theres a time and a place. Even if attending the G as many subscribe the idea of bay 13 is so full of UXB's that it beggars belief that the lads even contemplated it.

It was dumb..simply that. Showed extreme poor judgement not only for themselves but for the club they represent. Like it or not whilst they accept the paychecks they will ALWAYS be representatives of the MFC and ought to consider that before embarking on such folly.

The club is attempting to instill a better culture and part of that goes to all manner of things, not just the 100 mins on a field.

The club has called for a 'please' explain'..and rightly too.

I'm on the fence with this one. I don't think they've done anything wrong as such, just a dumb look.

It's the sober decision to sit in Bay 13 that I take issue with, and that alone.

It's the sober decision to sit in Bay 13 that I take issue with, and that alone.

it is essentially the crux, id agree. What did they expect...a quiet afternoons partaking of ale and cricket ?? ffs.

You go to 13 for one reason... its party time

It was dumb..simply that.

I agree with that.

Showed extreme poor judgement not only for themselves but for the club they represent.

'Extreme' is too strong for me.

Like it or not whilst they accept the paychecks they will ALWAYS be representatives of the MFC and ought to consider that before embarking on such folly.

in regards to criminal actions yes, or actions that are in breach of a policy like race/gender/sexuality yes, but on this they were on the line and didn't wobble to far over in my opinion, so agree to disagree.

The club is attempting to instill a better culture and part of that goes to all manner of things, not just the 100 mins on a field.

I can sing TISM's 'all homeboys are d1c&heads' by heart and would vote for anyone that wanted to fine people who wear mullets, but that said I think they were within sight of the boundaries even if it not a behaviour I would choose.

The club has called for a 'please' explain'..and rightly too.

This is where I just think we could make sure we don't go OTT.

I also live with a code of conduct that extends to my private life and can be terminated for bringing my organisation into disrepute just from private non criminal actions, (I also have to enforce and arbitrate this with colleagues) so have had some practise with the follies people can get up to, especially after say 8 weeks working in Mogadishu Somalia.

Does this make everyone feel a little bit better?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/collingwood-midfielder-marley-williams-faces-assault-charges-in-western-australia/story-e6frf9jf-1226544226090

Why?

Nothing like a bit of small mindedness.

Its actually sad when any gifted individual (in this an AFL footballer) stuffs up.

It's the offseason and no one wants to hear we're flying....

We are? Where? Arizona then....

It's the sober decision to sit in Bay 13 that I take issue with, and that alone.

Its not the issue.

Its the puerile behavior to throw beer cups, remonstrate with the public/security and building beer cup snakes.

Its does not matter where they sat. They could have chosen to sit in Bay 13 without the associated stupidity.

Why?

Nothing like a bit of small mindedness.

Its actually sad when any gifted individual (in this an AFL footballer) stuffs up.

I thought it'd be obvious; because a Collingwood player has stuffed up worse than our players, and the negative spotlight should by all rights shift onto them.

Not rocket surgery.

Its not the issue.

Its the puerile behavior to throw beer cups, remonstrate with the public/security and building beer cup snakes.

Its does not matter where they sat. They could have chosen to sit in Bay 13 without the associated stupidity.

I completely disagree.

Building a snake with beer cups may be puerile, but hardly an offence of any kind.

Remonstrating with the public/security is speculation, and in any case it seems they handled that element well when confronted, removing themselves from the vicinity.

Throwing beer cups is reportedly the domain of a richmond player alone.

The issue is the decision to place themselves somewhere where an incident of this nature was highly likely.

The decision for location is where this incident went wrong, and a wiser choice would've avoided all of this.

Its not the issue.

Its the puerile behavior to throw beer cups, remonstrate with the public/security and building beer cup snakes.

Its does not matter where they sat. They could have chosen to sit in Bay 13 without the associated stupidity.

Have you ever sat in Bay 13 in recent times yourself?

Because I strongly refute your assertion.

I thought it'd be obvious; because a Collingwood player has stuffed up worse than our players, and the negative spotlight should by all rights shift onto them.

Not rocket surgery.

Its rocket science Einstein.

Enjoy your sniggering over someone else's problems.

A few basics.....The Collingwood misbehavior did not happen at one of the biggest sporting days in the calendar and media cameras..... penny dropping.

C C C Culture! Old Culture. Our old Culture.

This is our old senior playing group. From Brock to Riv to Petterd. Add Frawls & dunn.. I'm not unhappy they went out to let the hair down & get [censored], but not get into trouble with the public with push & shove & ,,, throwing plastic cups???? Whats that?

Our boys, Frawls & Howey & any others that were there I hope will see the fine adjustments they need to make to stop this poor example from happening again.

We had a cleanout for good reason, & the reason would be for success. The clubs & the players.

Chippa, its time to have a fresh look in your mirror. Xroads are in front of you.

Building a snake with beer cups may be puerile, but hardly an offence of any kind.

Remonstrating with the public/security is speculation, and in any case it seems they handled that element well when confronted, removing themselves from the vicinity.

Throwing beer cups is reportedly the domain of a richmond player alone.

The issue is the decision to place themselves somewhere where an incident of this nature was highly likely.

The decision for location is where this incident went wrong, and a wiser choice would've avoided all of this.

The beer cup snake was nearly a row long and it dripped remnant beer over other patrons. That's the problem. If they had constructed the beer snake in another seating section of the ground would that have been alright? I think not.

Jeremy Howe was evicted. The others then left quietly. It should never have got to that if better judgement had been used when seated there.\

Have you ever sat in Bay 13 in recent times yourself?

Because I strongly refute your assertion.

Yes. And there are hundreds of spectators who have sat in the same area each time that dont need to make beer snakes and throw cups at other spectators and actually enjoy the whole game there.

Go figure.

Because I strongly refute your assertion.

Wow.!! I am impressed. Whoa

Its rocket science Einstein.

I know

Enjoy your sniggering over someone else's problems.

No sniggering. Just thankful to have the negative spotlight stolen somewhat.

A few basics.....The Collingwood misbehavior did not happen at one of the biggest sporting days in the calendar and media cameras..... penny dropping.

Just to make this clear... are you now saying that the choice of location WAS a major factor in this incident..?

"Penny dropping"..?

For some, maybe.

Just to make this clear... are you now saying that the choice of location WAS a major factor in this incident..?

"Penny dropping"..?

For some, maybe.

No.

Clearly it has not dropped in your case. Keep trying.

The beer cup snake was nearly a row long and it dripped remnant beer over other patrons. That's the problem. If they had constructed the beer snake in another seating section of the ground would that have been alright? I think not.

In case you're not aware, this is the norm in Bay 13 and you'd be an idiot not to expect this sort of behaviour around you, let alone sit there without being one to revel in it and happily participate.

I very much doubt this is what the other patrons were concerned with.

But you can speculate if you like...

Jeremy Howe was evicted. The others then left quietly. It should never have got to that if better judgement had been used when seated there.

According to some reports, yes.

It is well-documented that the security guards have itchy eviction-trigger fingers around Bay 13.

Yes. And there are hundreds of spectators who have sat in the same area each time that dont need to make beer snakes and throw cups at other spectators and actually enjoy the whole game there.

Go figure.

In Bay 13? You sure?

I'm not sure why anyone would want to sit in an area with such a widely-knonw reputation for such antics, and not expect to experience them.

Wow.!! I am impressed. Whoa

As am I with your arguments, Rhino x

No.

Clearly it has not dropped in your case. Keep trying.

I don't think I'll bother, Rhino.

We clearly aren't intellectual equals...

I just hope Chip, Dunn and Howe don't go back to the club .01% worse than what they left because they are already on Neeldys sh*t list after their boxing day antics!

These blokes are professional footballers!!! If they want to sink [censored] and get kicked out of the cricket, go stack shelves at Coles! Yes it sucks that they are only 23 years old but they are quite happy to take 6 figure contracts during the year, sacrifices need to be made ( eg not getting [censored] in public).

They could have had a BBQ at home, wrote themselves off and we would have never heard about this..more importantly for them the club would not have heard about this.

I don't think I'll bother, Rhino.

We clearly aren't intellectual equals...

Good idea.

But I did try to lift your standards Jose. Its far tougher than I thought. But keep working on it.

I just hope Chip, Dunn and Howe don't go back to the club .01% worse than what they left because they are already on Neeldys sh*t list after their boxing day antics!

These blokes are professional footballers!!! If they want to sink [censored] and get kicked out of the cricket, go stack shelves at Coles! Yes it sucks that they are only 23 years old but they are quite happy to take 6 figure contracts during the year, sacrifices need to be made ( eg not getting [censored] in public).

They could have had a BBQ at home, wrote themselves off and we would have never heard about this..more importantly for them the club would not have heard about this.

In the context of this thread - yes, they could have.

But when you are elite athletes such as these guys there is a difference between getting totally rat faced and a few beers.

The effect of such abuse on your body can quickly destroy any good work (such as Darwin) you have done.

I takes at least 72 hours for alcohol to totally leave your body.

So, if you make a real mess of yourself, training will be affected.

I know from my fairly high level days as a marathon runner and am not a wowser.

But, when you are being paid a six figure sum there is a responsibility.

That Mitchell & Webb Show.

Rocket scientist: "What do you do?"

Brain Surgeon: "I'm a brain surgeon."

Rocket scientist: "It's not rocket science."

Well, I liked it, anyway.

In relation to my post about the effects of heavy drinking Dave Misson is quouted in this Herald-Sun piece ...which of course has to drag out the tanking issue as well...

Perception and association are easy for lazy journalists.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/melbourne-demons-players-in-hot-water-over-boozy-mcg-eviction/story-e6frf9jf-1226544258408

{Melbourne players were banned from drinking alcohol on their nine-day pre-season camp at Robertson Barracks in Darwin this month.

Dees fitness boss David Misson said the players had been given strict training programs to complete over the break.

"The sessions that they're going to be asked to do are going to be solid," Misson told the Melbourne website.

"The days in between the training sessions are their own, so it gives them a chance to relax with family.

"But the sessions are pretty structured, and they're going to have to send through feedback from those sessions, as well as reach some targets when they come back.

"We're going to know who's done it and who hasn't."}

I just hope Chip, Dunn and Howe don't go back to the club .01% worse than what they left because they are already on Neeldys sh*t list after their boxing day antics!

These blokes are professional footballers!!! If they want to sink [censored] and get kicked out of the cricket, go stack shelves at Coles! Yes it sucks that they are only 23 years old but they are quite happy to take 6 figure contracts during the year, sacrifices need to be made ( eg not getting [censored] in public).

They could have had a BBQ at home, wrote themselves off and we would have never heard about this..more importantly for them the club would not have heard about this.

Goes to show how stupid some of these blokes really are. Shame is that Howe & Frawley are talented footballers. Players that we need to improve to go to the next level. If they behave in public like that then what do they do when they aren't in the public eye? Yes for most 23 year olds it's not an issue, but when you are talking about elite sportsmen, diet, mental preparation etc it really makes me wonder what these guys get up to off the field. Most of the supporters of the club want an elite culture, great strides have been made. However it looks like for some members of the group the penny hasn't dropped. This sort of behaviour for a footballer might have been ok 20 years ago, but not now. From my perspective it just looks unprofessional, stupid, careless I could go on. It's certainly not representing an elite culture.

Having sat in Bay 13 for the first time 2 years ago as a 27 year old, and having sat in the MCC many times before that, I was surprised by how jumpy the security guards are with a bit of harmless fun, i.e. the "beer trains" and how itchy their "trigger fingers" are for kicking someone out.

At times they are expecting trouble and quick to anticipate it, whether real or imagined.

I've witnessed blokes get hauled out for very little indeed.

I don't necessarily believe the players are innocent, and the decision to place themselves in bay 13 deserves scrutiny, but this discussion needs some balance.

Australia thinks of itself as this super relaxed, chilled out society.

The reality is, however, we are a reactionary, intolerant, hyper sensitive, over regulated, anti intellectual place that is as far from a chilled out society as any place I've been in my life.

I'm not condoning what Frawley, Dunn and Howe may or may not have done, but I expect the security guards who evicted them are most likely brainless twits.

Nanny state?