On 23/11/2012 at 14:34, Demon Abroad said:

When we stop getting beatan up and bullied by the Hawks then that will feel like the tide has turned...our matches versus them have epitomised our last several season....to weak, pushed around, bullied not good enough for anywhere near long enough...many of these clashes were round 1 and felt like they set the tone for the season.

I agree with you in the sense that we need to be more competitive against all sides this year, and I will be hoping we could be in a game for 4 quarters against Hawthorn, unlike our recent efforts. However in my opinion Hawthorn will be one of the top 3 sides in the AFL in 2013, with Brian Lake bolstering one of their most deficient areas, a number of key players entering their prime, Hodge potentially playing a full season and with the full list seriously hurting from last year looking to make amends. I am far more concerned with us beating teams like Port, WB, North, Essendon, Brisbane, Richmond and even Carlton before we even consider seriously challenging Hawthorn.

  On 22/11/2012 at 21:32, Ron Burgundy said:

It's officially over. No more choir boy stuff.

As the AFL world knows, upon securing the senior gig, Mark Neeld stated:

"I simply want to coach the team that is the hardest to play against in the AFL. That means all over the ground we're going to be the hardest to play against. There will be a number of components that come with that."

He was ridiculed for saying this, including by some posters here.

Well, who's laughing now?!

He has taken to the soft players on this list like Tony Montana. And he has replaced them with hard, fiercely competitive players who are determined to succeed.

This bloke is the real deal. He endured a simply ridiculous amount of carp last season, virtually from day one. Strangely, the anti-Neeld voices have gone quiet. Eerily quiet.

We will only field "hard" teams from now on. Of that, have no doubt.

Thank you Mark Neeld. Thanks very much.

Bring on 2013.

Look mate, I like your vibe etc. but I think it's a bit silly to say "it's officially over"..... why exactly? because our coach said it was 12 months ago before we had our worst season in recent memory? Because we've picked up a few players in the offseason? It's officially over when we PLAY the way we all desperately want to, not when it's the usual huff and puff of the preseason.

Get a grip fellas, sick of hearing this sort of stuff every year.

  On 23/11/2012 at 15:24, deejammin said:

I agree with you in the sense that we need to be more competitive against all sides this year, and I will be hoping we could be in a game for 4 quarters against Hawthorn, unlike our recent efforts. However in my opinion Hawthorn will be one of the top 3 sides in the AFL in 2013, with Brian Lake bolstering one of their most deficient areas, a number of key players entering their prime, Hodge potentially playing a full season and with the full list seriously hurting from last year looking to make amends. I am far more concerned with us beating teams like Port, WB, North, Essendon, Brisbane, Richmond and even Carlton before we even consider seriously challenging Hawthorn.

Yeah for sure gotta be able to beat some of North, Richmond, Carlton, Bulldogs especially - we have terrible records against all those sides.

As far as the Hawks go as long as we can stay with them for longer and match them in the desperation and physicallity stakes I will be happy, fair to say we are are fair way off where there list is at still.

The positive is there are very few skinny bodies left. But if we're going to play combative football we're going to have to do it better than last season. As always the proofs in the pudding. Just an aside, our outside mids are nowhere near up to it either.

He's doing a good job moulding a physically stronger list, wether or not he can coach is another thing.

  On 23/11/2012 at 08:04, Clint Bizkit said:

You should write haiku, why you little.

Everything you write is so, whimsical.

haha! I was at work. I didn't have time to write an essay...

  On 23/11/2012 at 15:42, stuie said:

Look mate, I like your vibe etc. but I think it's a bit silly to say "it's officially over"..... why exactly? because our coach said it was 12 months ago before we had our worst season in recent memory? Because we've picked up a few players in the offseason? It's officially over when we PLAY the way we all desperately want to, not when it's the usual huff and puff of the preseason.

Get a grip fellas, sick of hearing this sort of stuff every year.

Most of this wasn't Neeld's doing though - he inherited a dog turd. And, plainly, he has done his utmost to change things.

Devil's advocate - but would you prefer that he did not adopt such a ruthless strategy and simply retained our senior players (eg, Moloney, Green etc) and those players like Morton, Bennell, Gysberts and Petterd in whom we'd invested quite a bit of game time but who, to date, hadn't consistently delivered? Personally, I am much more enthusiastic about the alternative approach which, thankfully, Neeld adopted.

IMO Neeld can only do so much, and what he has done to date has inspired a truck load of confidence. In fact, I am amazed at what he has achieved in terms of list restructuring in such a short period of time.

That being the case, I'm bloody excited. The signs are there.

Hard players. Ruthless, professional, disciplined approach. This formula will drive success over time.

So what's not to be excited about?! This whole "I will wait to see the results before I get excited" approach is far too convenient IMO.

Players and supporters need to commit to the strategy/approach prior to the actual results being delivered for it to succeed - not merely sit on the fence and applaud it only after it has worked.

That's just a flabby way to approach things.

  On 22/11/2012 at 21:32, Ron Burgundy said:

It's officially over. No more choir boy stuff.

As the AFL world knows, upon securing the senior gig, Mark Neeld stated:

"I simply want to coach the team that is the hardest to play against in the AFL. That means all over the ground we're going to be the hardest to play against. There will be a number of components that come with that."

He was ridiculed for saying this, including by some posters here.

Well, who's laughing now?!

He has taken to the soft players on this list like Tony Montana. And he has replaced them with hard, fiercely competitive players who are determined to succeed.

This bloke is the real deal. He endured a simply ridiculous amount of carp last season, virtually from day one. Strangely, the anti-Neeld voices have gone quiet. Eerily quiet.

We will only field "hard" teams from now on. Of that, have no doubt.

Thank you Mark Neeld. Thanks very much.

Bring on 2013.

I don't agree, officially over, over what?

OK, we are starting to recruit some types likely for contested footy. That in itself is a Looong Way short of officially over.

# Now its up to the players themselves, to prove to us & the coaches, that Melbourne's woeful past of bruise free footy is dead.

  On 24/11/2012 at 03:37, Ron Burgundy said:

Most of this wasn't Neeld's doing though - he inherited a dog turd. And, plainly, he has done his utmost to change things.

Devil's advocate - but would you prefer that he did not adopt such a ruthless strategy and simply retained our senior players (eg, Moloney, Green etc) and those players like Morton, Bennell, Gysberts and Petterd in whom we'd invested quite a bit of game time but who, to date, hadn't consistently delivered? Personally, I am much more enthusiastic about the alternative approach which, thankfully, Neeld adopted.

IMO Neeld can only do so much, and what he has done to date has inspired a truck load of confidence. In fact, I am amazed at what he has achieved in terms of list restructuring in such a short period of time.

That being the case, I'm bloody excited. The signs are there.

Hard players. Ruthless, professional, disciplined approach. This formula will drive success over time.

So what's not to be excited about?! This whole "I will wait to see the results before I get excited" approach is far too convenient IMO.

Players and supporters need to commit to the strategy/approach prior to the actual results being delivered for it to succeed - not merely sit on the fence and applaud it only after it has worked.

That's just a flabby way to approach things.

Super weak argument mate.

There have been NO results yet, so there is nothing "official" other than we won 4 games, had a terrible year, and have turned over a third of the list.

I hear backslappers like you every offseason and I'm not buying it again. Once we start ACTUALLY playing competitive footy it can be "official", until then you're just another guy saying we're "training the house down".

  On 23/11/2012 at 04:18, Colin B. Flaubert said:

That being said, this club ruined Brad Miller. It could do the same to Jack Viney!

Wait, what? How did the MFC ruin Miller? He was given about 2 years too many and did sweet FA at Richmond. A one dimensional forward who couldn't kick goals.

Jesus, talk about rewriting history, Miller was given every opportunity to succeed.

  On 22/11/2012 at 23:03, billy2803 said:

Ron, I am man enough to put my hand up and say that I had concerns of a few things that Neeld done throughout the last 12 months, none more so than making Trengove a co-captain. He even summed it up perfectly during the year when he commented about putting blind faith in players. Well, I refuse to put blind faith in Neeld. I want wins, followed by premierships. Yes, I acknowledge the fact that he had to make changes, and those changes were going to take time. I have patience, it is a prerequisite to barrack for the MFC, but he also has a timeframe where I expect improvement. This is the year (2013) where I expect it, and the following year, and the years after that.

I'm quite sure Neeld himself wouldn't want it any other way. He would want people questioning his decisions, that's not to say that he should be a puppet, but it's the sign of good management if you process the feedback you get. He's still learning, he will make mistakes, but it's what he learns from those mistakes that will decide if he is a good coach or not.

Until then, I'm on the fence, and will try not to get splinters in my arse. As long as the evidence keeps coming in, like it has over the past 6-8 weeks, I'll be happy to keep an open mind about his coaching ability. The thing that I'm the happiest about is that he has/helped remove players like Petterd, Rivers, Moloney, Green. I think this was 12 months too late (I know I'm likely to cop it for that comment), and have no doubts that Neeld should've made those decisions this time last year.

No issue with that, I have faith in him but not blind faith. What he's done with the squad in the off-season I think is exactly what we needed, we've got rid of a lot of players that have been eternal frustrations for just about everyone on this board and really I can only name Gysberts as the one that could come back and bite us.

Having said that, at this point it's still all just talk. I'm looking forward to seeing them back it up in round 1.

  On 24/11/2012 at 06:22, Jarka said:

Wait, what? How did the MFC ruin Miller? He was given about 2 years too many and did sweet FA at Richmond. A one dimensional forward who couldn't kick goals.

Jesus, talk about rewriting history, Miller was given every opportunity to succeed.

I never thought he was going to be a superstar but I think at the end of his time at the Dees, he had a lot of mongrel taken out of him. At the start of his career, he was willing to fly the flag and throw his weight around albeit with the odd suspension here and there. I believe ND saw him as a bit of a loose cannon and got him to take that aspect out of his game. We then ended up with the player that we had in his last 2-4 years instead of a hard nut who could actually protect his smaller team mates.

He was always going to be a third option forward at best but by the end, he was just an average third option forward for the reasons outlined above.

  On 24/11/2012 at 06:06, stuie said:

Super weak argument mate.

There have been NO results yet, so there is nothing "official" other than we won 4 games, had a terrible year, and have turned over a third of the list.

I hear backslappers like you every offseason and I'm not buying it again. Once we start ACTUALLY playing competitive footy it can be "official", until then you're just another guy saying we're "training the house down".

Condescending opening line.

Followed by a statement of the obvious "there have been NO results yet...".

Experienced followers of football can watch the play AND anticipate what's going to come next (i.e. where the ball should go). In the same way, experienced followers of a football club can see the changes to a teams list, culture, game style AND anticipate whats going to come next.

No one is talking about winning the flag in 2013.

They are simply judging that the 2013 team is an improvement on the 2012 vintage. While you want to make it about you and your contrarian spot light, I'm more interested in estimating how much better we could be...

We needed a man in charge with a hard edge good to see where heading down the right track .hope for Neeld sake we have a dip move up the ladder abit so he keeps his job.the boys need to just show a bit of heart each week to keep me happy not what we saw last year in most games and play 4 god dam qrts of football

  On 24/11/2012 at 06:38, PaulRB said:

Condescending opening line.

Followed by a statement of the obvious "there have been NO results yet...".

Experienced followers of football can watch the play AND anticipate what's going to come next (i.e. where the ball should go). In the same way, experienced followers of a football club can see the changes to a teams list, culture, game style AND anticipate whats going to come next.

No one is talking about winning the flag in 2013.

They are simply judging that the 2013 team is an improvement on the 2012 vintage. While you want to make it about you and your contrarian spot light, I'm more interested in estimating how much better we could be...

Missed my point mate. Every offseason the backslappers come out and talk it up... I'm sick of it. I'm happy with the changes we've made, super happy, I like Neeld, I'm positive about next year at this stage, but to say we are "officially" past bruise free footy when we've been training for a coupla weeks and actual footy is 5 months away is like thinking a unicorn is going to play on the wing for us when we win the grand final next year... If it's an obvious statement to say "there have been no results yet" then how is it wrong? And how can you say it's obvious and then try to contradict it?

I like the good vibes about the team, I like the faith coming back, but pull your heads in a bit backslappers, we haven't even fired a shot yet.

  On 24/11/2012 at 06:48, stuie said:

Missed my point mate. Every offseason the backslappers come out and talk it up... I'm sick of it. I'm happy with the changes we've made, super happy, I like Neeld, I'm positive about next year at this stage, but to say we are "officially" past bruise free footy when we've been training for a coupla weeks and actual footy is 5 months away is like thinking a unicorn is going to play on the wing for us when we win the grand final next year... If it's an obvious statement to say "there have been no results yet" then how is it wrong? And how can you say it's obvious and then try to contradict it?

I like the good vibes about the team, I like the faith coming back, but pull your heads in a bit backslappers, we haven't even fired a shot yet.

Mate, maybe you don't realise it but your language is unnecessarily inflammatory, a "backslapper" WTF, a "backslapper" is someone who associates themselves with success, we're not successful, so your use of the term is wrong.

You are "sick of it", so what? Just because you can't see how the changes to the list will allow us to leave the bruise free era behind, it does not mean that others who see the game differently to you are wrong, they just have a different perspective, and I for one think Ron judgement is on the money.

There is no skill in picking the winner once the race is won.

  On 24/11/2012 at 07:03, PaulRB said:

Mate, maybe you don't realise it but your language is unnecessarily inflammatory, a "backslapper" WTF, a "backslapper" is someone who associates themselves with success, we're not successful, so your use of the term is wrong.

You are "sick of it", so what? Just because you can't see how the changes to the list will allow us to leave the bruise free era behind, it does not mean that others who see the game differently to you are wrong, they just have a different perspective, and I for one think Ron judgement is on the money.

There is no skill in picking the winner once the race is won.

No. Actually you are wrong:

backslapper (plural backslappers)

1. One who makes a show of liking another person with profuse or excessive displays of camaraderie, such as vigorous hand clasping, back-slapping, hearty words of greeting, etc.
   

Usage notes

Often used at least mildly pejoratively.

So, I'll explain again.... I agree, the changes should allow us to leave the "bruise free" era behind, but we have not played a game yet, and in fact, some of those players you speak of haven't even trained with us yet. Hence, my use of the term "get a grip".

When we make the top eight in a few years and do it like Geelong then we can do all the backslapping we want carn dees

I cannot honestly remember a list so profoundly hardened up in one trade period as ours has been in 2012. I cant wait for 2013!

  On 24/11/2012 at 06:22, Jarka said:

Wait, what? How did the MFC ruin Miller? He was given about 2 years too many and did sweet FA at Richmond. A one dimensional forward who couldn't kick goals.

Jesus, talk about rewriting history, Miller was given every opportunity to succeed.

One player used, to try to put vertabrae into a jellfish.

It just doesn't work having 3 or 4, doing what the whole team should be, courageous daredevils.

I don't think most supporters realise still, how "Outside" we've been for a long time. more then 10 Years.

  On 24/11/2012 at 07:45, Norm Smith said:

I cannot honestly remember a list so profoundly hardened up in one trade period as ours has been in 2012. I cant wait for 2013!

Lets hope so,

  On 24/11/2012 at 07:09, stuie said:

No. Actually you are wrong:

backslapper (plural backslappers)

1. One who makes a show of liking another person with profuse or excessive displays of camaraderie, such as vigorous hand clasping, back-slapping, hearty words of greeting, etc.
   

Usage notes

Often used at least mildly pejoratively.

So, I'll explain again.... I agree, the changes should allow us to leave the "bruise free" era behind, but we have not played a game yet, and in fact, some of those players you speak of haven't even trained with us yet. Hence, my use of the term "get a grip".

In that case you've both used it out of context

  On 24/11/2012 at 06:06, stuie said:

Super weak argument mate.

There have been NO results yet, so there is nothing "official" other than we won 4 games, had a terrible year, and have turned over a third of the list.

I hear backslappers like you every offseason and I'm not buying it again. Once we start ACTUALLY playing competitive footy it can be "official", until then you're just another guy saying we're "training the house down".

Shut up stuie

go to another place with your sad MFC story

  On 24/11/2012 at 13:03, BIG JIM said:

Shut up stuie

go to another place with your sad MFC story

Get some reality mate. It's the bloody offseason. Every offseason "we're flying", and "training the house down", and we've "rebuilt through the draft".... I'm SICK of the [censored]. I'm happy with what we've done this offseason, really happy, but to make claims about how far we've come when the season is 5 months away is just plain stupid.

I don't want to be the offseason champs anymore, I don't want this to be the happiest time of year for a demon supporter, I want to be competitive. So you can be as satisfied as you like with these cliches and taglines about being "officially past bruise free footy", but I want to win actual games of footy.

Get a grip FFS.

  On 24/11/2012 at 14:43, stuie said:

I'm happy with what we've done this offseason, really happy.

Is this the same Stuie who railed against almost every delisting, trade and gentle nudge into retirement as though you were losing a member of your own family?