I can't believe that a committed Melbourne supporter could make a statement like this.

So you are happy to sit back while other teams take advantage of the draft rules by tanking away to their hearts content - only to accept a beat-up when we decide its our turn to put future development ahead of short term goals?

I gather that you didn't.sit through the Kreuzer Cup

How about the 'Whitfield cup this year between GWS and Gold Coast, were any of the GWS players moved to an unfamiliar position to normal??? Could be another example for our defense if there was.

Because it was a safe bet that game, everyone knew the result before it had started.

The lot of a coach is that they need more notations in the 'W' column than the 'L' column, otherwise they'll be fodder for disgruntled supporters, as well as a target of derision for opposition fans, as well as the media.

On face value it's easy to understand posters such as StuieS12, as all they can see is a side that seems to have gone backwards, but on closer analysis, it was the one or two steps back that was needed to give us any opportunity of having genuine success; as well as a complete culture change of the organisation.

Bailey's team played one-way footy. They'd been doing it for yeas. It stemmed from Daniher's days. There was enough talent that when they were "on" they could rip a team to shreds, especially interstate teams that had a poor history at the G. But it was fool's gold. Any time they were up against a well organised disciplined side, that had any semblance of a defensive mindset the shutters were put up pretty quickly. They couldn't counter the press, because the coach had misread where the game was going and they didn't have the fitness base anyway. When you don't have strong defensive attributes as a team you don't have a backbone. You've got nothing to rely on when things get tough. This was never more evident than in round 22, 2010. We lost to North by only 10 points. We played some exciting footy that day. Jurrah kicked 5 goals, as did Green, Dunn had one of his cameos up forward with 3 and Bruce, Scully, Sylvia and Morton got plenty of it. I reckon if you looked at pure talent we had North covered reasonably easily. We had 9 first round picks playing - I think North had 3, plus some seasoned campaigners. But they were coached differently. And while North had some trouble stopping Melbourne's attack and flair, they had a hard-nosed approach that was lacking with the Dees. That game really exposed Melbourne. They played some of their most exciting footy for the year, but still couldn't get over the line against a side that wasn't playing at home and didn't make finals. North had nothing to play for in round 22 and were nothing more than a work-horse team, but they still got the job done. The 8.5 wins of both 2010 and 2011 covered cracks at Melbourne about as well as paper mache. Yet some supporters still think we were on the right track.

When Neeld and Misson arrived they were pretty shocked at Melbourne's level of fitness. And while it may have been enough when they only had to run one way, it was never going to stand up over 22 rounds and deliver in finals. Not when defending takes more out of you than running ahead of the footy. Pretty quickly Neeld got noses out of joint. Most of the senior players, who loved Dean and even decided to cancel the odd training session under their mate, felt disenfranchised under a no nonsense Neeld. These players thought pretty highly of themselves and had lived a pretty comfortable existence for some time. Most were stripped bare of leadership status and the inevitable followed.

As is sometimes the case when you're learning something new and worthwhile there's a tendency to over-correct. Hell-bent on becoming a defensive team they lost their spread. They lost confidence in each other. They didn't trust teammates to win contests and got sucked into those contests only to be burnt on the outside. Combined with poor fitness levels the whole side looked and was as slow as treacle. And disenchanted senior players felt vindicated in their displeasure at what was going on at the club. That's what happens when you're thinking about your own lot. Some supporters were also wondering what the hell was going on. Things were better under Bailey. But Bailey's way was actually now coming home to roost. It was staring the club in the face, even if supporters didn't realise it.

The players are getting much fitter, stronger, learning to play defensive finals footy, doing drills to spread better, looking to take the game on and when things turn around it will happen relatively quickly. Just as importantly, when they do come good their brand of footy will hold up. I genuinely believe that the club is finally on the right track. I believe we'll see some real inroads as early as next year. And I'll wager that we'll beat a couple of Victorian sides outside of Richmond and Essendon for the first time since 2007, even if finals are a couple of years away.

Hutchy just said on SEN...... the commision is meeting on Monday to decide Melbourne and Adelaides fate.

Hutchy just said on SEN...... the commision is meeting on Monday to decide Melbourne and Adelaides fate.

Well he's wrong - the commission is meeting Monday week - the 19th.

Good on you Ron if you think that the coach will make a difference! Was it his coaching this year which has inspired you? Was it, perhaps, the new gameplan? Or the brilliance of our recruiting which enabled us to, effectively, buy 3 fellows who had been, or were about to be delisted? Or the pinpointing of our major weakness, ie, the midfield and the expert recruiting which has lead to the result that in R1 of 2013 we will have the same midfield as in 2012,except for Viney, but minus Moloney, our best and fairest in 2011.

Truly, without optimists this site would be dead. We need you mate

This post almost falls into the troll category.

I would also ask the person who has the audacity to use the name of a great Melbourne champion if he/she has been following what has been going on with the team and the major restructuring, outside reading about in the "hate the Dees" media ?

Ben hur effectively says that I've lost the plot, that I fail to see what wonderful developments have occurred under Neeld. As to 1 point you are correct mate. I see NONE! And I hate the tendency of those on this site to bag previous coaches.

I might be wrong but I think that in the r22 match of 2010, NM did play a more experienced side than MFC, but even if I,m wrong, it was a pretty good game. In that season Dees beat Swans by 100 plus with Morton playing a cracking game on Goodes. Ever since I've known that he CAN play. In 2010 we also drew with Cwood and lost to them by a point. Then in 2011 we beat 3 teams including Adelaide by 90 plus, with of course the Russian suffering a serious injury in that match.

In my opinion the awful loss to Geelong caused repercussions which were way over the top. In the 1980s Ess under Sheedy lost by 160, but did they sack him? I might be wrong but I will always think that if Jimmy had been in good health Bailey would not have been sacked summarily. Sure there were problems. I agree that defensively we were poor particularly in midfield. These were glaring issues to be addressed including, it is suggested,, fitness.

In any field of endeavor I do not rate the new coach, CEO, manager or whatever who feels the need to make his mark by getting rid of the most senior people in the organization. Just as Sanderson has done in Adelaide Neeld should have gathered the senior players around him, got the best out of them for a year and then made decisions. Instead in my view he decided to downgrade, humiliate even certain players. Why on earth should Green- a decent character if ever there was one- have been left out of the leadership group.?

I consider the playing list has gone back considerably. Could any of you, honestly, have envisaged we'd go out of our way to recruit 3 mature players who had been or were about to be delisted?

Anyway I hope I'm quite wrong. Membership renewed I will be there urging them on as usual

Goodonyer Deestroy All, I think I can safely say I haven't joined that group...........yet!

And MFCFS (Fantasy Syndrome) is the complete opposite

"The boys are training the house down"

"I think we'll make 12 wins next year and scrape into the 8"

"This (new guy) is going to be a star. 200 gamer for sure. A real Brownlow prospect"

You get the picture......................

We have a heavy dose of both syndromes on Land. A few unfortunates are know to have both syndromes (depending on the day)

Well he's wrong - the commission is meeting Monday week - the 19th.

This is all i care about at the moment...if they meet on the 19th , we will have only 3 days to respond before the draft,which means if there are any penalties, they would most likely be next seasons draft picks. So most likely safe for Wines at 4

I might be wrong but I think that in the r22 match of 2010, NM did play a more experienced side than MFC, but even if I,m wrong, it was a pretty good game. In that season Dees beat Swans by 100 plus with Morton playing a cracking game on Goodes. Ever since I've known that he CAN play. In 2010 we also drew with Cwood and lost to them by a point. Then in 2011 we beat 3 teams including Adelaide by 90 plus, with of course the Russian suffering a serious injury in that match.

As I said, fool's gold.

In that season Dees beat Swans by 100 plus with Morton playing a cracking game on Goodes. Ever since I've known that he CAN play. I

Goodes kicked four goals and was the only reason Sydney didn't lose by over 100 points.

I can't believe people on here are still dreaming of the Swans game in 2010.

Look the Swans had a bad day for whatever reason.

When has our list ever gone even remotely close to reproducing that abberation since???

In the match v Adelaide in May 2011. Wet day yet we won by nearly 100 points.

Where did Adelaide finish this year? Or by a similar margin v Freo later in the year. How did they go this year? How did we go against Swans in R1 last year

You and BenHur say it was necessary for us to plummet whilst those 3 clubs prospered? Why? Why not address the weaknesses whilst maintaining a strength, ie a highly capable attacking capacity. I don't accept you have to get rid of a strength to correct a weakness, you guys apparently do.

In the match v Adelaide in May 2011. Wet day yet we won by nearly 100 points.

Where did Adelaide finish this year? Or by a similar margin v Freo later in the year. How did they go this year? How did we go against Swans in R1 last year

You and BenHur say it was necessary for us to plummet whilst those 3 clubs prospered? Why? Why not address the weaknesses whilst maintaining a strength, ie a highly capable attacking capacity. I don't accept you have to get rid of a strength to correct a weakness, you guys apparently do.

I was at that Adelaide - one of the few - and it was all played in our forward zone. The game was very one dimensional with no defense required for most of it.,

However, when it was, we were not very good at defending.

Brad Green had been under the spotlight and this was the game where he famously came over to the members, pulled at his jumper rather uncharacteristically to "show off". In fact on that day, it was the whole team who tried to "show off". But, with hindsight I can see what Neeld has been trying to get us to do. If the team had played a no soft options and more defensive game that day, they might have won by ....dare I say... something north of even 186.

The next week when we were pressured, we were found wanting...especially the more senior players in the group.

Try and understand this is a revolution going on. That Adelaide were able to regroup this year with a new coach and new ideas, but very few newer players is more an indication of the quality of those older players, than anything else. We had the same chance - but it was the more "mature" players who were found wanting. Unlike the group Sanderson had to work with, we had several players who did not like to be fit and challenged in the way they are now.

I don't expect miracles with the team ion 2013 or even 2014. I won't be surprised if some of the FA and other recruits don't deliver. But, I know they will all be trying - for the team.

I will be surprised if I can't say, "well at least now, I won't die wondering".

In the match v Adelaide in May 2011. Wet day yet we won by nearly 100 points.

Where did Adelaide finish this year? Or by a similar margin v Freo later in the year. How did they go this year? How did we go against Swans in R1 last year

You and BenHur say it was necessary for us to plummet whilst those 3 clubs prospered? Why? Why not address the weaknesses whilst maintaining a strength, ie a highly capable attacking capacity. I don't accept you have to get rid of a strength to correct a weakness, you guys apparently do.

but Stuey what happened every time that same 22 players left the comfort of the MCG?

They Shat themselves & that includes Etihad 5 mins down the road..

But you guys both miss the point! If it was a case of senior players getting sulks as the season progressed I would agree with you. The coach deliberately insulted them before the start of the season. Is Brad Green the sulking type? Rivers, who incidentally did NOT want to leave MFC last month, had finished 3rd in the Bluey from memory--no place in leadership for him. Or Moloney who played a hell of a year in 2011 after initially letting himself down. He'd displayed leadership in 2011 had he not? And won the best and fairest. No leadership group for him. How well did the appointment of Trengove and Grimes work out? Did Trengove prosper or go backwards?

It was a committeeman who first alerted me to what the new coach was doing. He feared for a bad season, I listened to him and tipped MFC to finish 16th amongst our large mob of supporters/tipsters. The rest ridiculed me, then paid up half way through the season. The preseason antics by the coach were simply incompetent examples of man management

In the match v Adelaide in May 2011. Wet day yet we won by nearly 100 points.

Where did Adelaide finish this year? Or by a similar margin v Freo later in the year. How did they go this year? How did we go against Swans in R1 last year

You and BenHur say it was necessary for us to plummet whilst those 3 clubs prospered? Why? Why not address the weaknesses whilst maintaining a strength, ie a highly capable attacking capacity. I don't accept you have to get rid of a strength to correct a weakness, you guys apparently do.

What's your argument here?

That, like Adelaide, a team of young players can get absolutely smashed, yet simultaneously be building towards some very strong form in the not-too-distant future?

How many teams are able to address weaknesses whilst maintaining strengths? Adelaide in 2011 clearly couldn't.

What fantasy land do you live in?

Sorry mate, but you have NFI. None whatsoever.

But you guys both miss the point! If it was a case of senior players getting sulks as the season progressed I would agree with you. The coach deliberately insulted them before the start of the season.

What insults? Are they that thin skinned that they can't take honest feedback?

Great leadership to sulk after some rightfully stinging criticism.

Is Brad Green the sulking type?

According to you he must be. I don't think he is - the game has gone WAY past him.

Rivers, who incidentally did NOT want to leave MFC last month, had finished 3rd in the Bluey from memory--no place in leadership for him.

FFS. Performance =/= leadership.

Or Moloney who played a hell of a year in 2011 after initially letting himself down. He'd displayed leadership in 2011 had he not?

No. Yelling at players is not leadership. Face facts - he is a poor leader.

And won the best and fairest. No leadership group for him.

Once again, performance =/= leadership.

How well did the appointment of Trengove and Grimes work out? Did Trengove prosper or go backwards?

Very well, in terms of leading the team. You really think the old guard would have done better? Really?

Trengove had a tough year. He stagnated. But still his leadership was exemplary in spite of his performance.

It was a committeeman who first alerted me to what the new coach was doing.

Rocking the boat? Good.

We NEEDED change, and the RIGHT kind of change.

How you can't see what is happening is beyond me.

He feared for a bad season, I listened to him and tipped MFC to finish 16th amongst our large mob of supporters/tipsters. The rest ridiculed me, then paid up half way through the season.

So, your mates don't have crystal balls and you were given a tip that drastic change was being made.

What the hell does this prove?

The preseason antics by the coach were simply incompetent examples of man management

I beg to differ - his man management was exceptional.

He has spent a season revolutionising the culture and sorting the wheat from the chaff.

You may have different KPIs to Neeld, but you need to accept that the old KPIs brought consummate and perpetual failure to the club.

But you guys both miss the point! If it was a case of senior players getting sulks as the season progressed I would agree with you. The coach deliberately insulted them before the start of the season. Is Brad Green the sulking type? Rivers, who incidentally did NOT want to leave MFC last month, had finished 3rd in the Bluey from memory--no place in leadership for him. Or Moloney who played a hell of a year in 2011 after initially letting himself down. He'd displayed leadership in 2011 had he not? And won the best and fairest. No leadership group for him. How well did the appointment of Trengove and Grimes work out? Did Trengove prosper or go backwards?

It was a committeeman who first alerted me to what the new coach was doing. He feared for a bad season, I listened to him and tipped MFC to finish 16th amongst our large mob of supporters/tipsters. The rest ridiculed me, then paid up half way through the season. The preseason antics by the coach were simply incompetent examples of man management

Well your committeeman contact was on the money wasn't he ?

I dare say he could probably make a similar assessment about next year too - albeit we win a few more games.

This is a "REVOLUTION" going on.

Sometimes clubs and even businesses need a clean out, to change the culture . Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Sadly some individuals also suffer. But, also some individuals - if they have the character and brains - go on to better things.

I am sure we all wish Rivers the best. I hope he gets his wish to play finals and GF football. Likewise I am very please that Brad Green will get the chance to learn coaching. Even if people had a "quiet word" with him he was allowed to go out in style - as he should have. J Mac and Bruce obviously taught people something.

I also hope Bate gets picked up. Being a marginal player he was always going to struggle with us. As for Moloney, perhaps he has matured as a person (remember his indescretions) and can regain his confidence up in Brisbane.

You might be right and saying the mature replacements will not be any better - but you forget...they have all come from different club cultures - mostly winning ones. Hopefully they will be able to "mentor" our young guys as well as being able to contribute as players.

A gamble?

Sure is.

But what's the alternative?

I was there in 1964.

I don't want to think my club never won another, because we stuck with what was, rather than what could be.

Enjoy the ride!!!

I'm curious.....what's a committeeman?

Is it a board member? part of the coaching staff? footy dept? admin staff? executive officer? phantom?

Well I appreciate this response as opposed to the insulting rant by Jose! I also saw the 1964 premiership. So I withdraw from this topic, I want nothing more than a club going somewhere with capable management, and I sincerely hope I'm quite wrong. I find it a little hard to agree that Rodan is a product from a successful club--a castoff from a club worse than ours is my impression--but again I wish him well and if he can lift us, then terrific!

the 'can Neeld coach' and/or ' has Neeld taken the right approach' debates have been done to death. The answer is we cant really tell until 2013 is done and dusted, or at least 1/2 way done.

However, its clear to me we played the way we did last year inorder to do two things

1. get the players playing with a primarily defensive mindset
   
2. identify the players who would follow instruction from those who want to do things their way
   

In short, it was a year we had to have inorder for Neeld to build a team to take forward. Its hurt as a supporter becasue we expected to see more wins after and up and down 2010. For Neeld to come in and let things continue as the had been would have been taking the safe option.

Hats off to Neeld for standing his ground and putting the line in the sand.

Mark Neeld the man, he is the LAW!

Well I appreciate this response as opposed to the insulting rant by Jose! I also saw the 1964 premiership. So I withdraw from this topic, I want nothing more than a club going somewhere with capable management, and I sincerely hope I'm quite wrong. I find it a little hard to agree that Rodan is a product from a successful club--a castoff from a club worse than ours is my impression--but again I wish him well and if he can lift us, then terrific!

"Insulting rant"... or just shooting down of every weak and ignorant argument you tried to make?

I see you have no reply though.

FYI already reports of Rodan showing good leadership at training...

I must say now days I almost always agree with Jose, Ben Hur and a few others. I may as well stop posting?

I must say now days I almost always agree with Jose, Ben Hur and a few others. I may as well stop posting?

I find it a little hard to agree that Rodan is a product from a successful club--a castoff from a club worse than ours is my impression

Careful not to insult him.