Let's face it, in eight years and numerous first round draft picks, MFC has not achieved one gun player. In the same era that saw Carlton get Murphy, Gibbs and Kruezer, and Richmond get Delidio, Cotchin and Martin we have got Dunn, Pettard and Tapscott. Where was the foresight?????

Murphy Gibbs and Kruezer were all #1 picks. Deledio was Pick 1, Cotchin 2 and Martin 3.

How can you compare them to guys picked later in the draft in the second and third rounds?

Name one gun player recruited in the last eight years? The Carlton and Richmond players that I mentioned were all round one draft picks. Our round one draft picks have been Gysberts, Nathan Jones, Jack Watts, Matthew Bate, Cale Morton, Colin Sylvia, Lyndon Dunn, Sam Blease and James Seller. Hardly a consistent quality player amongst them.

Therefore I blame the recruiters!

Where is our Luke Hodge, Martin, Murphy, Penlebury, Cotchin, Ziebell etc, etc ...........????

But how is we could have picked Gibbs, Deledio, Murphy and Kreuzer? Your argument is flawed that we havent picked the same calibre of players with picks 15 lower down the draft order. The fact is our two number one draft picks who would be somehow comparable (despite not having had many years to develop) are $cully and Watts. One is gone, the other still figuring out where he is as a footballer.

And yes, right now we dont have a 'star' player.

We picked Scully because everyone said he was the number one choice, but if you looked at his highlights reel you could see the flaws in his game, if you looked at Martin's you could see just how good he was. We picked Watts but same thing, he was ok and had good skills but didn't exactly dominate and wasn't exactly hard at the ball.

Now I'm not a recruiter but I would have asked myself some questions before I picked both of these players and if the answers weren't in the positive I would have had reservations about both of them.

Scully relies on his superior fitness, but when you get to AFL level all the players (except ours), are super fit so where does that leave Scully a player with ordinary foot skills and a fairly weak handball?

Watts relies on his ability to beat an opponent one on one in a marking contest but in AFL you don't get that luxury there is always the third man up so you have to have good hands or great strength like Cloke or Clark so what does Watts bring to the table?

We have also picked up plenty of other first round picks who are simply not up to it and may jag a few games here and there but will be eternally on the merry go round with the likes of Dunn and Petterd and Bennell, they are mainly NQR players who will look like champions at Casey and inept at AFL level. Then we will argue about who among the later picks should be given a go in the firsts because they've performed well at Casey only to find out that that's where they belong. Fitzgerld etc.

Thank you recruiters you have done well; you've had the keys to the vault and walked out with loose change.

Prendergast never even bothered interviewing Martin. Says it all really. Not even an interview!!!

Neck tatts scared him off.

Not flawed just honest about our list. I have looked at every other team and with lower draft picks than us they ALL have 3 or 4 really great players we have none. How many Melbourne players have been all Australian selections in the last decade easily the least of any AFL team-why? Look at our forward line Bate, Pettard and Dunn have had numerous chances and aren't good enough. Let's be honest we have the most mediocre list in the AFL.

We recruit talent, we do.

We don't fulfil their promise, which is why Craig and Misson are here.

The Hawks were far more physically developed. We need big arses and thighs.

I don't think we have given our recruits the same opportunity than at other clubs.

On sheer probability alone, at least one of our high picks should be / will become a gun.

They can't all be duds!

I see the reasons they still are yet to emerge as a lack of an environment that effectively develops players, and a lack of elite level work rate from the current group.

We have also picked up plenty of other first round picks who are simply not up to it and may jag a few games here and there but will be eternally on the merry go round with the likes of Dunn and Petterd and Bennell, they are mainly NQR players who will look like champions at Casey and inept at AFL level. Then we will argue about who among the later picks should be given a go in the firsts because they've performed well at Casey only to find out that that's where they belong. Fitzgerld etc.

Petterd and Bennell were not first round picks and there is no one on our list called Fitzgerald.

I wish some of the people that bag the coach and coaching staff and also claim the players aren't trying, read this thread because this is where our current predicament came about.

Petterd and Bennell were not first round picks and there is no one on our list called Fitzgerald.

Where did I say they were?

Sorry I meant Fitzpatrick, no need to be a smart arse about it though. Is that all you have to contribute?

Name one gun player recruited in the last eight years? The Carlton and Richmond players that I mentioned were all round one draft picks. Our round one draft picks have been Gysberts, Nathan Jones, Jack Watts, Matthew Bate, Cale Morton, Colin Sylvia, Lyndon Dunn, Sam Blease and James Seller. Hardly a consistent quality player amongst them.

Therefore I blame the recruiters!

Where is our Luke Hodge, Martin, Murphy, Penlebury, Cotchin, Ziebell etc, etc ...........????

Sellar was not OUR draft pick and he was a dud at Adelaide. Its too soon to make a call on Blease or Gysberts although some rumours do circulate. Nate Jiones is a good player, but not a superstar. You missed Lynden Dunn and Brock McClean who were also first rounders. Or back to Luke Molan who barely played.

I remember before the Scully draft I read an interview of Dustin Martin where he said he was going tio go out and smash it. I thought at the time he was pretty full of himself but that a player with that kind of confidence would suit the demons purely because in the last ten years we've had no mongrel other than Pickett and Phil Read. But they didnt even talk to him.

Worse was someone here saying that in the Moloney trade we nearly got Bartel instead and that we nearly got Sewell in a trade but chose to keep Ryan Ferguson!!

I dont think its just recruiting - none of our younger players do well at other teams either - Armstrong, Cheney, Buckley, etc. Our trading has been pretty bad as well - John Meeson comes to mind.

Worse was someone here saying that in the Moloney trade we nearly got Bartel instead and that we nearly got Sewell in a trade but chose to keep Ryan Ferguson!!

I know these to be fallacies: Moloney was the one we could convince out of him and Kelly. And we didn't choose to keep Ferguson - he declined the trade as he felt he would have more chance at MFC.

The first one I got of SEN - the sources of all factual footy stuff! The second I got off you and got it wrong. My bad,

The first one I got of SEN - the sources of all factual footy stuff! The second I got off you and got it wrong. My bad,

At the time there were rumours that Bartel was one of a few cats that wanted out of Geelong, because there was lots of talent but they were going nowhere, and were cursed with a bad culture and no flags for 40+ years.

He stayed. The rest you can fill in.

Recruiting is one thing (wish we picked up Dylan grimes as an aside) but trading and development stinks. Why are Brad Miller, Kyle Cheney, Simon Buckley all getting games when they were not with us? I'm not saying we should have kept them all, but it says something about how we can't get the best out of what we do have.

Trading too has been poor / non existent. Why couldn't we have gone for some players that would have helped our young guys?

Recruiting is one thing (wish we picked up Dylan grimes as an aside) but trading and development stinks. Why are Brad Miller, Kyle Cheney, Simon Buckley all getting games when they were not with us? I'm not saying we should have kept them all, but it says something about how we can't get the best out of what we do have.

Trading too has been poor / non existent. Why couldn't we have gone for some players that would have helped our young guys?

This is it.

And it's only this year that the club has finally poured the requisite amount of money and resources into this are.

We'd be fools to expect it to action drastic change in such a short time.

Scully is better than Martin. I still believe that. Scully can play inside and out. Martin, whilst a gun inside midfielder that kicks goals. he doesnt spread hard enough from the contest. he has flaws too. Scully will turn out to be better

Why are Brad Miller, Kyle Cheney, Simon Buckley all getting games when they were not with us? I'm not saying we should have kept them all, but it says something about how we can't get the best out of what we do have.

None of these have set the world on fire. Buckley I see often still banging a few Demonesque clangers LOL. But Brad is actually kicking a few in what I assume will be his last season.

Scully is better than Martin. I still believe that. Scully can play inside and out. Martin, whilst a gun inside midfielder that kicks goals. he doesnt spread hard enough from the contest. he has flaws too. Scully will turn out to be better

He was at U/18 level.

I don't think that physically Scully can be effectively developed like Martin can and has been, and his skills definitely are not better.

Scully will always struggle to physically impose himself on a contested situation.

He'll be the master of the loose ball, of being the link man.

And has injury clouds.

He was at U/18 level.

I don't think that physically Scully can be effectively developed like Martin can and has been, and his skills definitely are not better.

Scully will always struggle to physically impose himself on a contested situation.

He'll be the master of the loose ball, of being the link man.

Correct. Think of the types who influence big finals when the match is on a knife edge ... it's your Lenny Hayes, Luke Hodge, Bartel types. Guys who can storm through packs with their powerful hips and kick team lifting goals. That's not going to be Scully. It's going to be Martin.

Scully is better than Martin. I still believe that. Scully can play inside and out. Martin, whilst a gun inside midfielder that kicks goals. he doesnt spread hard enough from the contest. he has flaws too. Scully will turn out to be better

I've watched Scully closely this year. He's vanilla.

We picked Scully because everyone said he was the number one choice, but if you looked at his highlights reel you could see the flaws in his game, if you looked at Martin's you could see just how good he was. We picked Watts but same thing, he was ok and had good skills but didn't exactly dominate and wasn't exactly hard at the ball.

Now I'm not a recruiter but I would have asked myself some questions before I picked both of these players and if the answers weren't in the positive I would have had reservations about both of them.

Scully relies on his superior fitness, but when you get to AFL level all the players (except ours), are super fit so where does that leave Scully a player with ordinary foot skills and a fairly weak handball?

Watts relies on his ability to beat an opponent one on one in a marking contest but in AFL you don't get that luxury there is always the third man up so you have to have good hands or great strength like Cloke or Clark so what does Watts bring to the table?

We have also picked up plenty of other first round picks who are simply not up to it and may jag a few games here and there but will be eternally on the merry go round with the likes of Dunn and Petterd and Bennell, they are mainly NQR players who will look like champions at Casey and inept at AFL level. Then we will argue about who among the later picks should be given a go in the firsts because they've performed well at Casey only to find out that that's where they belong. Fitzgerld etc.

Thank you recruiters you have done well; you've had the keys to the vault and walked out with loose change.

I only have one point to disagree with, how could you put Bennell in the same sentence as Dunn?