No, Flower was a superstar. I consider elite players to include Lyon and Stynes. I really don't know why elite now equals superstar status. For me elite is really A grade, or perhaps A+. Each to their own I suppose.

This is what the dictionary says. Is a pretty fine line though when you start discounting players of Flowers ilk.

su·per·star

 

noun

1.

a person, as a performer or athlete, who enjoys wide recognition, is esteemed for exceptional talent, and is eagerly sought after for his or her services.

2.

any very prominent or successful person or thing

e·lite

 

noun

1.

the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.

2.

persons of the highest class: Only the elite were there.

3.

a group of persons exercising the major share of authority or influence within a larger group

Edited February 9, 201213 yr by McQueen

This is what the dictionary says. Is a pretty fine line though when you start discounting players of Flowers ilk.

su·per·star

 

noun

1.

a person, as a performer or athlete, who enjoys wide recognition, is esteemed for exceptional talent, and is eagerly sought after for his or her services.

2.

any very prominent or successful person or thing

e·lite

 

noun

1.

the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.

2.

persons of the highest class: Only the elite were there.

3.

a group of persons exercising the major share of authority or influence within a larger group

Great. Thanks.

Ultimately though I tend to prefer my own definition when it comes to footy, as an on-line dictionary probably doesn't have the same feel for my sport. If you look up "crumb" or "banana" I think they'd send you down to Safeway. A speccie would probably have you at an optometrist.

Our game is a little bit different. I don't know about you, but "superstar" has always been the pinnacle. But if it's good enough for you don't let me get in your way.

Cheers.

Like Watts, TJ , and Silvia, Liam has shown that when he's ON he is elite. However, the swings to date from best to worst is too wide and therefore he's not ON consistently enough to be elite, yet.

I'd say Jack Watts is similarly not ON enough. Pleople are disposed to believe that Jack Watts will develop the consistency, the engine and drive to be ON more often, and if he does develop these things then with his obvious talent he should be elite.

Liam didn't come throught the classical development and draft system yet in his career to date has displayed he has the talent to be elite. The doubt you are voicing is that he won't develop the consistency, the engine and drive to display his evident talent consistently.

I disagree. Liam has had to give up more (his culture and family) and work harder (i.e. learn english) to get to where he is than most of the MFC list, and this to me indicates a resolve that will allow his talent to flourish.

Liam will be a star in the sublime mold of the great Robbie Flower.

nice post

regarding the first comment, I actually dont think JW has shown the glimpses of truely great play that Sylvia or Jurrah have. Sylvia has torn entire games apart (and then gone missing for weeks on end), Jurrah has been the match winner by kicking bags when no one else has, but Watts has never really had one of those games (or even a break out game as a former #1 pick). His best game to date IMO was probably against richmond last year where he did some good things and kicked some nice goals (one gifted from a free kick that wasnt there). That game was a good game, but i wouldnt say ithe dominated it off his own boot like Jurrah and Sylvia have.

it is funny then that so many of us do put Jurrah in the enigmatic basket and yet proclaim Jack Watts in the "lock for future gun" catogory. I guess that all of the emotional investment into Watts being a number 1 pick might have somthing to do with it!!

I think Pendlebury is a fantastic player and would love to have him but the only reason he would leave Collingwood is for the cash on offer at GWS (or a major fallout with Buckley) which we can never offer. I hope it does to them what the Scully thing did for us. Maybe Eddie can break the news on his brekky program, lol.

Let's develop our own and maybe top up with a GC or GWS kid who wants to come home.

Maybe a falling out with Buckley, combined with rumours that a number of Collingwood players had a strong bond with Neeld. Neeld did great things with Collingwoods midfield, and particularly imo Pendelbury.

This is all stuff of dreams of course, throw in a great year from the MFC.....

Not necessarily.

I'm just more perceptive than you are when it comes to judging a player's ability.

So you rank Frawley alongside Ablett, Pendlebury, Hodge, Swan, Franklin, Goddard, Steve J, J Selwood etc as a clear A-grader.

Way too accommodating. And re judging a player's ability, talk to me when you make the top 20 in Supercoach! B)

Interesting you say that RR, as from memory, when JT was playing junior in SA, he was being touted as the next Roo wasn't he?

I have to be honest, I've never really looked at them to compare, but now you mention it, there's some merit in the call.

Can't recall that but doesn't surprise. I think as he fills out he'll become a Ricciuto-esque midfield beast. Sort of has that same hunched over the ball driving kicking action, too.

So you rank Frawley alongside Ablett, Pendlebury, Hodge, Swan, Franklin, Goddard, Steve J, J Selwood etc as a clear A-grader.

Way too accommodating. And re judging a player's ability, talk to me when you make the top 20 in Supercoach! B)

Can't recall that but doesn't surprise. I think as he fills out he'll become a Ricciuto-esque midfield beast. Sort of has that same hunched over the ball driving kicking action, too.

Surely you only rank players against like for likes, eg

Frawley against Scarlett, Reid, Glass ect?

You can't judge it like that, it has to be on a 'bell curve' that would have a few at the elite status

98th percentile on a linear progression, or two standard deviations on a bell curve, the result is roughly the same.

98th percentile on a linear progression, or two standard deviations on a bell curve, the result is roughly the same.

problem is mfc has had a lop-sided upside down bell curve for a few years

Surely you only rank players against like for likes, eg

Frawley against Scarlett, Reid, Glass ect?

No, I just rank about 12 - 15 players (20 is stretching it) as the elite or A-grade players of the comp. Players with at least 4 seasons producing that level of footy who as of round 24/finals 2011 were still producing it with consistency.

As it stands now we don't have a player in that grouping. Good thing is we appear to have three or four with genuine prospects.

So you rank Frawley alongside Ablett, Pendlebury, Hodge, Swan, Franklin, Goddard, Steve J, J Selwood etc as a clear A-grader.

As I said, it's all subjective.

That includes your definition of "A grader".

Way too accommodating. And re judging a player's ability, talk to me when you make the top 20 in Supercoach! B)

Yep, well that just about says it all, if you equate ability to supercoach points.

I take it, then, that you don't rate Scarlett?

Fortunately I don't have the time to waste on supercoach beyond a passing interest.

Good luck with it.

As I said, it's all subjective.

That includes your definition of "A grader".

Yep, well that just about says it all, if you equate ability to supercoach points.

I take it, then, that you don't rate Scarlett?

Fortunately I don't have the time to waste on supercoach beyond a passing interest.

Good luck with it.

"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time."

- Bertrand Russell.

Edited February 11, 201213 yr by Range Rover

Trengove IMO will be a future AA captain not just Elite