Does he?

Or is he a thug like Campbell Brown who just like to deviate off the line to hit blokes when they have their eyes on the footy?

I'm not saying he is, just asking a question.

I don't think that sort of "toughness" is especially brave or valuable.

Doesn't hurt though.

Lutz, if you have the tapes of the first 8 games, go and watch them to see what type of a tough player he is.

He goes very hard at the man, and not Brown style, where he attacks the players when they are not looking, but he hits when in the contest.

He also dives hard into packs, protects teammates and is a tough player, along the lines of J. Selwood, not a thug.

As do I.

But who would you prefer?

Tapscott or Dangerfield?

Dangerfield is contracted so its all moot. Better to concentrate on realistic targets.

I didn't go the man.

You brought up players from 20+ years ago.

They hold no relevance.

What I know about you or what you miss is also irrelevant.

Arguing semantics about "tough" and "hard" is meaningless.

I've not "gone off on Tappy", merely presented a realistic trade proposal involving a promising player that seems to have limitations.

It seems to have hit a raw nerve among quite a few.

Some don't like to face reality.

A bit like the difference between hard and soft players maybe?

Of course I don't know what he'll be like next year.

No one does. Ever. In any trade. Relevance, your honour?

Obviously few of those players will be there in 2013, and even fewer the year after that.

Since we'd be trading for Dangerfield in this scenario, again, relevance?

I don't understand what the hell you mean by we "should go hard now in this poor draft year."

We should use the picks?

Or draft aggressively? Do you know what that means?

It means being prepared to do deals like Tapscott for Dangerfield to get better.

And lastly - "Wattsy will be ok"?

Is that the same Watts derided during his first couple of years for being soft?

So you can teach a player to harden up..?

Or you can't? I can't decipher what you're trying to say there.

Oh, you missed the relevance of our last real successful and strong performing team. Thats why i mentioned those players that were goers and all played together in one team of that era.

They and their hard uncompromising ways were Key factors to our success.

If, we want to get back to that type of team & success, then we have to find hard types to go.

Geelong have noone who takes backwards or sideways steps. Saints have. Pies have. Not so much Hawks, but they've been smashed thru injury to Key Talls for 2 years.

And us, bruise less.

Well you're going to have to pay something.

We won't be able to just give up our 30th best player for one of their top 5 and expect them to accept it with a 2nd round pick.

Tapscott is hard and a great kick, but what else?

I think he's limited.

I don't wear the rose-coloured glasses some supporters do.

In the cold light of day I accept we overrated our own at times and need to give up something of roughly equal value.

Tapscott was the high light of the year! I'd i'd prefer him too Dangemouse any day! Forget it!

Oh, you missed the relevance of our last real successful and strong performing team. Thats why i mentioned those players that were goers and all played together in one team of that era.

They and their hard uncompromising ways were Key factors to our success.

If, we want to get back to that type of team & success, then we have to find hard types to go.

Geelong have noone who takes backwards or sideways steps. Saints have. Pies have. Not so much Hawks, but they've been smashed thru injury to Key Talls for 2 years.

And us, bruise less.

#Edit: Tapps, relevence, in a part season has shown plenty tolook forward to more, exciting, even if you can't see it, & him improving.

# Go hard to trade, I wouldn't draft beyond 3rd Rnd this year anyway.

#You may well have criticised Wattsy in his first years, but I didn't, but I was hopefull and patient Re him, & encouraged Him this year.

Hardening up, you have it in you, or you don't, wattsy has his pride and Competativeness driving him to not fail. The alternative is too much, so he goes into things he didn't want to before.

Others don't have the desire to that extent, seemingly. Leopards & spots is seldom wrong.

Dangerfield is contracted so its all moot. Better to concentrate on realistic targets.

Most contracted players are traded whilst still contracted, (last year), or they can walk for nothing.

Dangerfield is contracted so its all moot. Better to concentrate on realistic targets.

Nice evasive manouvres.

I've not "gone off on Tappy", merely presented a realistic trade proposal involving a promising player that seems to have limitations.

The reality is you don't know what those limitations are or if in fact there are any. You don't just trade a player for the sake of it especially if you are not sure what you are trading, a full uninterrupted pre season, a new coach, a change of body shape and we may just have our Chapman; would prefer him to a player that keeps getting knocked out.

Most contracted players are traded whilst still contracted, (last year), or they can walk for nothing.

A graders are rarely traded when they are in contract..

Most contracted players are traded whilst still contracted, (last year), or they can walk for nothing.

Excuse me. Do you mean to say most players traded are traded while contracted?

Nice evasive manouvres.

Unlike Tappy I baulk.

A graders are rarely traded when they are in contract..

Agree.

#Edit: Tapps, relevence, in a part season has shown plenty tolook forward to more, exciting, even if you can't see it, & him improving.

# Go hard to trade, I wouldn't draft beyond 3rd Rnd this year anyway.

#You may well have criticised Wattsy in his first years, but I didn't, but I was hopefull and patient Re him, & encouraged Him this year.

Hardening up, you have it in you, or you don't, wattsy has his pride and Competativeness driving him to not fail. The alternative is too much, so he goes into things he didn't want to before.

Others don't have the desire to that extent, seemingly. Leopards & spots is seldom wrong.

I think you need to read more slowly, because you miss a lot.

I've seen Tapscott improve.

I said I don't want to trade him.

But in a Dangerfield trade you'd need to give up someone of his quality.

Do you rate Tapscott above Dangerfield?

I don't.

What exactly does "go hard to trade" mean though?

I didn't criticise Watts and backed him to the hilt.

Like Lucas Cook. Talls take time. Kids take time.

But that's fanciful in regards to Watts and what he has/had in him, as opposed to other players.

You're taking a bit of artistic license there.

A graders are rarely traded when they are in contract..

Of course, but if they want to come home, and a suitable Deal can be arranged for all, then it happens. Sorry for only being Optimisitic? how rude. Thats not a swear word is it?

From Footywire

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-adelaide-crows--patrick-dangerfield

Can't see what the fuss is.

The season wasn't exactly a breakout one was it?

He kicked 23 goals for the season including 6 in one game so in the other 21 he kicked 17, less than one a game; not sure where he gets his super star status. I would love to know the breakdown of his games and the stats at home games as opposed to away games. We all know that Adelaide grow another leg when they play at home but how is he when they travel? I did notice that there were 10 games where he didn't score a goal this year and his possession count wasn't exactly over the top.

Average career disposals 15 average career goals 1.1

From Footywire

http://www.footywire...ick-dangerfield

Can't see what the fuss is.

The season wasn't exactly a breakout one was it?

He kicked 23 goals for the season including 6 in one game so in the other 21 he kicked 17, less than one a game; not sure where he gets his super star status. I would love to know the breakdown of his games and the stats at home games as opposed to away games. We all know that Adelaide grow another leg when they play at home but how is he when they travel? I did notice that there were 10 games where he didn't score a goal this year and his possession count wasn't exactly over the top.

Average career disposals 15 average career goals 1.1

Obviously loved by some on here.

Obviously loved by some on here.

I've seen quite a few, different, ideas floated on here but trading down is a new one.

The reality is you don't know what those limitations are or if in fact there are any. You don't just trade a player for the sake of it especially if you are not sure what you are trading, a full uninterrupted pre season, a new coach, a change of body shape and we may just have our Chapman; would prefer him to a player that keeps getting knocked out.

Hence the word "seems".

But you don't know that about ANY play under the age of about 23.

The thing is you're comparing Dangerfield and Tapscott, and right now, Dangerfield is better (clearly IMO) and it looks likely to stay that way.

Are you referring to Dangerfield being concussed, what, twice this year?

The first time from having his head slammed into the ground by Trengove?

Yeah, soft head. Good argument.

You realise the very same thing happened to Tapscott too?

Nice hyperbole though.

I've seen quite a few, different, ideas floated on here but trading down is a new one.

Is that really how you see it?

MFC pay Craigs salary now. He's employed to bring success to the club by all means necessary.

Who gives a toss about his years at the crows. Thinking that he actually would care in that manner is the epitome of pure fantasy.

It's interesting that you choose a picture of Norm Smith to associate with your username yet you're unwilling to consider that there are still people in footy who are loyal and honourable. Understandably people are a little sensitive after the farcical Scully situation this year but I'm confident Neil Craig should be viewed entirely differently to the growing number of footy people who are driven purely by money and quick fixes. He's a gentleman and viewed with great respect by Adelaide supporters despite the sour end to his time there. Taking Dangerfield away from Adelaide would quickly change this view and his time at Adelaide would be viewed in a very different and a very negative light.

Is that really how you see it?

Yep.

Yep.

Well that's fine.

If your opinion is that Tapscott is better than Dangerfield, then I can't argue against it.

It's your opinion.

I don't share it.

Then again, I'd rather Gary Rohan over either of them.

Well that's fine.

If your opinion is that Tapscott is better than Dangerfield, then I can't argue against it.

It's your opinion.

I don't share it.

Then again, I'd rather Gary Rohan over either of them.

Gary Rohan, not in the least bit interested in him, totally underwhelmed. I really can't see what the fuss is.

Lutz has a point about Tapscott - he's hard and a nice kick but that's about it - not strong defensively, not strong overhead. There's no evidence to suggest he can play midfield and he doesn't have any tricks to play forward. He's a medium back who is a nice kick - a harder version of Josh Hunt. When James Strauss is back he's not in my back 6 and I don't see him anywhere else. Like Darren Glass? Spare me!

Tapscott for Dangerfield? Get outta my way!

and josh hunt has 3 premierships to his name...i'd take a player of josh hunts calibre any day. Not every player can do everything, most have many limitations, it's about playing role and being effective. Tapscott will be an imposer and if coached well his kick will be a lethal asset to the team. Rather then focus on limitations why not focus on what they can do? so sick of people expecting players to be able to do everything!

Of course, but if they want to come home, and a suitable Deal can be arranged for all, then it happens. Sorry for only being Optimisitic? how rude. Thats not a swear word is it?

Look forward to you providing an example of when this has happened.