Could be worse...

Could be continuously injured like Gumbleton... Injured his hamstring on the weekend to add to the long list of injuries that he has had....

Btw, he has played 22 games since being drafted in 2006... (The same year as Frawley...)

Where do these people keep coming from?

I thought MFC supporters in general were smarter than this, but demonland unfortunately provides me with evidence to the contrary...

Just to correct the record in relation to Jack Watts' contribution yesterday: his time on the ground was 51% of the game (so it's a bit misleading to say his 6 disposals came in 3 quarters). He is also credited with 5 tackles. This is an area in which we were seriously deficient at the start of the game. He took 4 marks, made a spoil and made no errors. I also read somewhere that he was credited with 12 'pressure acts'. This is important when he has clearly needed to lift his intensity and ability to make an impact in contests. His impact was not especially significant but nor would I rate it poor at all. The only players to lay more tackles for us were Moloney (6) and Tapscott (6). Davey laid 0 after spending 83% of time on the ground, Jones laid 2 after spending 79% of time on the ground. If everyone showed the desire to tackle that Watts did, we would never have been 5 goals down.

The conditions after half time didn't suit Watts and the substitution was sensible, but I really don't think anyone should be more doubtful about his prospects after yesterday.

For those who can't understand why some of us think he will make it as an excellent footballer, I observe the following. He is a very good size and will only get stronger and better able to impose himself. He is very quick and has very good endurance. He is smart and usually takes the right option. He kicks the ball beautifully on both sides of his body. He has good hands. He is a superb shot for goal. A lot of these attributes are hard to acquire, and are rarely found together in one player. He has them naturally, and is getting stronger and more competitive as he goes.

  On 11/04/2011 at 07:11, needafullback said:

Just to correct the record in relation to Jack Watts' contribution yesterday: his time on the ground was 51% of the game (so it's a bit misleading to say his 6 disposals came in 3 quarters). He is also credited with 5 tackles. This is an area in which we were seriously deficient at the start of the game. He took 4 marks, made a spoil and made no errors. I also read somewhere that he was credited with 12 'pressure acts'. This is important when he has clearly needed to lift his intensity and ability to make an impact in contests. His impact was not especially significant but nor would I rate it poor at all. The only players to lay more tackles for us were Moloney (6) and Tapscott (6). Davey laid 0 after spending 83% of time on the ground, Jones laid 2 after spending 79% of time on the ground. If everyone showed the desire to tackle that Watts did, we would never have been 5 goals down.

The conditions after half time didn't suit Watts and the substitution was sensible, but I really don't think anyone should be more doubtful about his prospects after yesterday.

For those who can't understand why some of us think he will make it as an excellent footballer, I observe the following. He is a very good size and will only get stronger and better able to impose himself. He is very quick and has very good endurance. He is smart and usually takes the right option. He kicks the ball beautifully on both sides of his body. He has good hands. He is a superb shot for goal. A lot of these attributes are hard to acquire, and are rarely found together in one player. He has them naturally, and is getting stronger and more competitive as he goes.

I agree. Was sitting in the Southern Stand yesterday, there was one contest early on where he just kept going at it and going at it until we had the ball. Unfortunately we stuffed it up kicking for goal, but I had nothing but praise for his effort there.

He has got the commitment in and around the contest, and is definitely still a work in progress. There are sure signs though, and the best one still is that contested mark that he took against Hawthorn where he was the only one up against 3 Hawks.

I'm keeping the faith.

I don't know what the opposite of rose-coloured glasses are (maybe 'blinkers') but Watts has improved his tank and his workrate immeasurably.

His body is taking time but the effort is there.

  On 11/04/2011 at 07:22, rpfc said:

I don't know what the opposite of rose-coloured glasses are (maybe 'blinkers') but Watts has improved his tank and his workrate immeasurably.

His body is taking time but the effort is there.

Agree, I watched the replay today and noticed on 2 occasions where he was flat out ignored and no score was registered. It just seems MFC were to Jurrah focused yesterday. I would love to see him be the main target up front for the Suns game. Watts can find open space, and when they start to hit him up rather than ignoring him, we WILL see a difference. I was happy with his performance yesterday, but you can just tell that he is about 5-8 games away...

  On 11/04/2011 at 05:56, Clanger King said:

He's the only number 1 pick in the last 10 years to not get a rising star nomination. I couldn't give a stuff about his GPS result. I can about how hard he runs at a contest without looking at the man in front of him... Lachlan Hansen is known for having high GPS results. Is that what we can look forward to? Awesome...

You put too much store in this silly award. Jack's in good company not getting a nomination - Dane Swan, Gary Ablett Jnr, Jono Brown and Chip Frawley all didn't make the nominee list. Three of them are absolute superstars and Chip is getting closer all the time. Some absolute gumbies have been nominated - anyone for Brent Hartigan??? There is nothing wrong with his work rate. If he doesn't make it, it won't be because he doesn't work hard enough.

Omg... Seriously we are praising a bloke that had 6 possessions and took one contested mark a week ago. It's nearly laughable. It's frustrating that sub par performances are still accepted. Someone else said that it wouldn't be accepted at Collingwood by Mick Malthouse and I also have heard Paul Roos say handing out games isn't good for a youngest development.

What's wrong with him going back to the VFL? Answer me that besides the tripe of getting games into him? Which he does but firstly he needs confidence.. Why can't he learn in the VFL..?

Jared Rivers won the award and was promptly rubbish for 3 seasons. Ain't an indicator.

And honestly, sending him back to the VFL would be poor for two reasons. First - who would you seriously replace him with? Maric and Jetta have been proven to be rubbish, he's better around the ground right now than Petterd and I wouldn't let Newton anywhere near the side still. When we have one of Scully or Jordie fit, it's a different situation, but right now I am quite happy simply letting him play.

  On 11/04/2011 at 07:42, Clanger King said:

Omg... Seriously we are praising a bloke that had 6 possessions and took one contested mark a week ago. It's nearly laughable. It's frustrating that sub par performances are still accepted. Someone else said that it wouldn't be accepted at Collingwood by Mick Malthouse and I also have heard Paul Roos say handing out games isn't good for a youngest development.

What's wrong with him going back to the VFL? Answer me that besides the tripe of getting games into him? Which he does but firstly he needs confidence.. Why can't he learn in the VFL..?

You know what's laughable?

Kicking a guy and announcing he is a failure as an underdeveloped 20 year old KPF.

Nothing wrong with him spending some time in the VFL, as long as it is justified. Same with him getting AFL games.

  On 11/04/2011 at 07:42, Clanger King said:

Omg... Seriously we are praising a bloke that had 6 possessions and took one contested mark a week ago. It's nearly laughable. It's frustrating that sub par performances are still accepted. Someone else said that it wouldn't be accepted at Collingwood by Mick Malthouse and I also have heard Paul Roos say handing out games isn't good for a youngest development.

What's wrong with him going back to the VFL? Answer me that besides the tripe of getting games into him? Which he does but firstly he needs confidence.. Why can't he learn in the VFL..?

Do you understand what is meant by getting games into him??

I haven't said he won't make it. I want him to get confidence playing in the VFL. I think we are only doing him harm by playing him in the 1s where he is under pressure with every game he plays. I want him to dominate the 2s for a month then bring him back and see what he can do once full of confidence? What are you scared of? If he comes back and is still the same? I think so...

So where should Watts be right now after having just 1 FULL pre season under his belt and 21 games???

Should he be averaging 20+ disposals a game, average 4 goals 12+ marks a game?????

Well, yeah, that would be a concern.

If his time in the VFL isn't beneficial to his development, I'd rather leave him in the senior side, even if he is a developing player.

Currently there is no more deserving alternative.

He's not as bad as he is being painted out to be.

Possession count isn't the be all and end all for a developing player.

You might be sick of the term "developing player", but he is a developing player.

Developing player.

Developing player.

  On 11/04/2011 at 07:52, Clanger King said:

I haven't said he won't make it. I want him to get confidence playing in the VFL. I think we are only doing him harm by playing him in the 1s where he is under pressure with every game he plays. I want him to dominate the 2s for a month then bring him back and see what he can do once full of confidence? What are you scared of? If he comes back and is still the same? I think so...

Its good to hear from you clanger king and i appreciate that youve come to my defence and backed me up a little bit and added some good points yourself mate. These blokes on here are picking at the absolute bare bones in trying to find positives on this issue. The guys a number 1 draft pick whos been in the system for 3 years now and weve got blokes on here trying to defend him and talking about his gps statistics and 1 repeat effort in a match etc. My dad who is in his 60s would seriously run harder than jack does and at least show the endeavour were after. For goodness sakes Michael Hurley was in the same draft and have you seen him play?? He already looks ready to take games by the scruff of the neck and his attack on the footy and contesting is just out of this world. People who say Jack watts needs more time need to have a look at a game Michael Hurley played in round 22 2009 against the hawks (the game where lloyd got sewelly) He would have been 18 at the time im assuming and his last quarter where he took contested marks and kicked goals from the boundary was phenomenal. He is someone who still has a long way to go and is still developing etc. But all the good signs you expect from a top 10 draft pick are there. For wattsy they arent.

Gotzy, we're all just bitter that we've used our #1 picks on a dud (watts) and a traitor (scully)

Just kidding.

I tend to sit on the fence with Watts. I'm happy to wait for him to show his true worth, im sure he'll be damn handy eventually. However, i also can sympahize with those who are impatient due to him being a #1 pick in his 3rd year and not showing a great deal.

Moral of the story - complaining about the bloeks performaces online wont change a thing!

yep, Jack Watts is crap and lets trade him to GWS, because he is not performing like a 200 game player. Case closed.

Out - Watts

In - Draft pick

:rolleyes:

  On 11/04/2011 at 07:56, Sturmmann said:

So where should Watts be right now after having just 1 FULL pre season under his belt and 21 games???

Should he be averaging 20+ disposals a game, average 4 goals 12+ marks a game?????

No. Not at all. This year I would love one game where he either gets 20+ disposals in a game, kicks 4 goals in a single game or takes 12 marks. I don't think that's too much to ask for a number 1 draft pick that could possible have 40 games under his belt by years end. But most of all I just want him to show some intent when the ball is in the air and stop looking at the pack in front of him like under 14s do.. He's 196cm and 92kg he should be able to do that once a game.

Brendan Goddard was drafted at the end of 2002, and was pretty darn average (and heavily criticised) until 2006 when he started to show consistent form.

He has never won a B&F, and got his first AA in 2009 (following the same trajectory, Watts would be AA in 2015). Goddard was not a ready made footballer, or easily pidgeon-holed into a position.

Watts will definitely take a long time to come on. Put your patience hats on. He will be dropped to the VFL, and he will shank set shots that he should get. But he will get there, without doubt.

*prays*

  On 11/04/2011 at 08:15, Clanger King said:

No. Not at all. This year I would love one game where he either gets 20+ disposals in a game, kicks 4 goals in a single game or takes 12 marks. I don't think that's too much to ask for a number 1 draft pick that could possible have 40 games under his belt by years end. But most of all I just want him to show some intent when the ball is in the air and stop looking at the pack in front of him like under 14s do.. He's 196cm and 92kg he should be able to do that once a game.

He is getting there, he had 15 disposals v Hawthorn, 6 marks v Sydney & 5 tackles v Brisbane. But it is only round 3, and if he can become the focal point against the Suns in the fwd 50 then he should show some of what he can do, he was ignored against the lions yesterday. It was all kicks to Jurrah yesterday..

  On 11/04/2011 at 08:18, Geddy Lee said:

Brendan Goddard was drafted at the end of 2002, and was pretty darn average (and heavily criticised) until 2006 when he started to show consistent form.

He has never won a B&F, and got his first AA in 2009 (following the same trajectory, Watts would be AA in 2015). Goddard was not a ready made footballer, or easily pidgeon-holed into a position.

Watts will definitely take a long time to come on. Put your patience hats on. He will be dropped to the VFL, and he will shank set shots that he should get. But he will get there, without doubt.

*prays*

Goddard played in 2003 while doing year 12 (same as Watts first season). Second year he played a number of good games including round 22 when he received three Brownlow votes for best on ground.

All comparable players that I can think of that went on to become very good players received Brownlow votes in their first two years (N Riewoldt - 11 in season 2, J Riewoldt 1 in season 2, Franklin 1 in first season, two in second, M Richardson first season 2 votes, Travis Cloke 1 in second season, James Hird 6 in second season, David Schwarz second year 6 votes)

I know the brownlow is an umpire’s award and not always the way to judge the best player, but it can rarely be argued that a player who receives votes was not in the best half dozen on the day, something that Watts has not been yet.

I'm not saying that Watts will not be a very good player, I’m saying that his development has been slower than any other comparable player that I can think of.

  On 11/04/2011 at 05:11, old55 said:

I don't think that's right, he does make good ground position and is able to get into a 1:1 with some space on his opponent but team-mates don't go to him in this situation because it appears they don't have confidence he'll win the contest - and there's some evidence that's true. They need to be confident he'll win the 1:1 and maybe that will come with further physical development.

I agree with this, like several others I've noticed it too. But I don't understand why it happens, and why it keeps happening.

Do his teammates have no confidence that he'll win a 1:1? Or that he'll at least be competitive enough to get it to the ground and make a contest. Do they consider it a better option to boot it aimlessly forward rather than to try to hit up Jack when he's in the clear?

In 50 years of watching footy I have never seen anybody else get into space but be ignored so many times. If it was happening because an extraordinary lack of peripheral vision on behalf of our mids & half-backs, it would have changed by now. Or does Jack just not run to where his coaches want him to run to? Whatever, there just seems to be no concern about it at a coaching level.

Maybe he's supposed to lead up and leave space behind him for someone else to run into - no, that couldn't be right, because there's never anybody running into that space.

Do his teammates not realise that this happens? Do the coaches not realise how much it happens? Are they all OK about it? They didn't seem happy with Jack on Sunday.

If there isn't a good reason, or if his teammates really have so little confidence in him, maybe he's better to go back to Casey where they might at least look for him. Seriously, I'm beginning to wonder what good it's doing for him in the AFL if as a lead-up forward his leads continue get so consistently ignored.

I honestly reckon this whole debate will be much more sensible at the end of this season. I too can see both the concern of some posters and the need to be patient from others. If his form at the end of the year has changed little compared to how it is now, then I'll start to be a bit concerned. At the end of the day, we picked him and not Hurley or Natanui, so we need to accept that and see how things go.

The times I saw Watts on a good lead, we decided to kick into the middle, this happened 3 times and all three times we missed the target in the middle turned the footy over. It seemed more the style we want to play, Jack was a good option on the flank but we want to get in to the middle og the gound of half back.

This debate will never end until he is kicking 8 a game or been traded.