To switch or not to switch?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Hi all,

Haven't posted for a while but have been keeping a keen eye on the topics here. (Scully one is hilarious).

Anyway, forgive me for starting a new topic on this subject but I wanted to focus on our kick-out strategy

and also our defensive zone, and hopefully get some idea of what you all think on the matter.

Last night I was unable to watch the entire game, but from what I saw,(and even from the first game up in Adelaide) I feel we have some concerning issues with our backline. Hear me out all you anti-constructive criticism posters. Of course it's still NAB cup and I am not fretting just yet but I will say this. I can honestly not remember the last

time I felt confident about moving the ball from defense to attack.

I'm not entirely sure about what strategy Bailey is trying to implement from the kick outs but it is definitely

our biggest weakness and something that I think will determine the outcome of many games this year. Garland is great. Agile, quick, can mark, pretty good one on one but jesus he either has terrible footy smarts when it comes to kicking and he isn't the best kick. Last night there was a passage of play where we were kicking from defense and Jones kicked it to Garland who marked it on Essendon's 50 close to the boundary. I'm not sure what was up-field but he definitely did not even glance forward. He immediately looked to switch, kicked into traffic and missed his target which resulted in an Essendon goal.

I understand this is one example but too many times I noticed that we were ALWAYS looking to switch and it was rarely an effective one. When it was, we were about 60/70% chance of hitting our target which is a major concern. Essendon's defensive pressure didn't help of course. Which leads me to my next point. Where the F*@k was ours?

I certainly wouldn't say their defenders are any more skillful at kicking than ours so I want to know how it was so easy for them to break our forward zone?! It was terrible.

Two areas that we need to fix before we even begin to challenge for and in finals.

I'm sorry if this has come across as a rant more than anything else. I am excited and confident about the year ahead

but this is something that worries me.

It has been like this for too long.

Thinking about Garland, Warnock, J Mac and Bartram kicking from defense makes me

shudder.

Grimes, Strauss, Bail Frawley get a pass.

Davey should kick out.

Bennell ain't a backman.

Edited February 25, 2011 by stevethemanjordan

[4jacks 0]

I think a major issue was the size of the ground. Etihad is tiny, and Essendon's zone was made to look better than it was because they didn't have to 'roll' too much. As such, switching the ball didn't work as well for us as it would have on the wider MCG.

Still, we definitely need a back-up plan out of defence. The switch was ineffective 9/10 times probably. We need a second, third and fourth option for when there is a really effective zone/press in place, or for when we're playing on a smaller ground.

One solution? Get Davey on the half back line instead of the wing.

[drdrake 3,062]

What about the MacDonald half switch in the last quarter Grimes 30m clear on the opposite side of the ground easy pass plays on changes his mind decides not to switch a get tackled holding the ball directly in front 25m out, this was the start of his worst 10 minutes of footy he has ever played

Edited February 25, 2011 by drdrake

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

I think a major issue was the size of the ground. Etihad is tiny, and Essendon's zone was made to look better than it was because they didn't have to 'roll' too much. As such, switching the ball didn't work as well for us as it would have on the wider MCG.

Still, we definitely need a back-up plan out of defence. The switch was ineffective 9/10 times probably. We need a second, third and fourth option for when there is a really effective zone/press in place, or for when we're playing on a smaller ground.

One solution? Get Davey on the half back line instead of the wing.

It's time we did some serious training on an Etihad Stadium dimension ground, our style of play there is deplorable...NAB Cup and Home & away. Other teams play on that ground.

It's time we did too. Opposition teams must smile right now when we are scheduled to play them at the Airport. Enough is Enough.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Welcome back STMJ... Been a while. I never thought I'd say this... but you've been missed. Particularly by the Morton fans.

I might leave your topic to others... Except to say, you're right. Bennell isn't much chop yet going the other way. Though I'd like to see him find a place somewhere, as his pace could be lethal one day. I'm definitely in the "is he or isn't he soft?" bandwagon though.

Garland's kicking is ok. Certainly deserves a pass for mine... though the others? I think you're pretty much right.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Hi all,

Haven't posted for a while but have been keeping a keen eye on the topics here. (Scully one is hilarious).

Anyway, forgive me for starting a new topic on this subject but I wanted to focus on our kick-out strategy

and also our defensive zone, and hopefully get some idea of what you all think on the matter.

Last night I was unable to watch the entire game, but from what I saw,(and even from the first game up in Adelaide) I feel we have some concerning issues with our backline. Hear me out all you anti-constructive criticism posters. Of course it's still NAB cup and I am not fretting just yet but I will say this. I can honestly not remember the last

time I felt confident about moving the ball from defense to attack.

I'm not entirely sure about what strategy Bailey is trying to implement from the kick outs but it is definitely

our biggest weakness and something that I think will determine the outcome of many games this year. Garland is great. Agile, quick, can mark, pretty good one on one but jesus he either has terrible footy smarts when it comes to kicking and he isn't the best kick. Last night there was a passage of play where we were kicking from defense and Jones kicked it to Garland who marked it on Essendon's 50 close to the boundary. I'm not sure what was up-field but he definitely did not even glance forward. He immediately looked to switch, kicked into traffic and missed his target which resulted in an Essendon goal.

I understand this is one example but too many times I noticed that we were ALWAYS looking to switch and it was rarely an effective one. When it was, we were about 60/70% chance of hitting our target which is a major concern. Essendon's defensive pressure didn't help of course. Which leads me to my next point. Where the F*@k was ours?

I certainly wouldn't say their defenders are any more skillful at kicking than ours so I want to know how it was so easy for them to break our forward zone?! It was terrible.

Two areas that we need to fix before we even begin to challenge for and in finals.

I'm sorry if this has come across as a rant more than anything else. I am excited and confident about the year ahead

but this is something that worries me.

It has been like this for too long.

Thinking about Garland, Warnock, J Mac and Bartram kicking from defense makes me

shudder.

Grimes, Strauss, Bail Frawley get a pass.

Davey should kick out.

Bennell ain't a backman.

I watched the warm up last night and we were passing the ball beautifully and marking everything that came our way, and then the real game started. Our kicking skills were deplorable last night, they were dropping short of the intended recipient and when they did actually make it the mark would be dropped, I haven't seen our skill level that bad for a few years.

Nothing went our way last night, the umpiring was against us, everything we tried failled and they pulled some incredible goals out of their behind. When we kicked it wildly, which was often, one of theirs would be there and when they kicked it wildly one of theirs would be there, just one of those nights.

[Yokozuna 1,004]

I have the same worry too. Unfortunately teams these days are obsessed with posession football, and they often try to keep the ball at all costs in the posession of a player who is by himself. This tends to be someone who is either sideways to them or behind them.

The problem is that if you kick backwards, you are helping the opponents forward pressure and placing your teammate under more pressure. It also mens you need to take the ball forward from an even deeper position.

I was always taught that when you switch the play that your teammate needs to be either clear of all opponents or over the other side of the corridor, and once the switch has been made, to move it on as quick as possible.

I think if we want to swith/ move the ball back we need to do it at pace, play on as often as possible and have teammates moving and presenting more strongly up forward.

We seem to switch and then be too stagnant which then puts pressure on our kicking, and as has been seen, our skills are still developing, and gee I hope they improve.

In regards to Garland, he is like Grimes for me, they do some great kicks and then follow up with crap ones. I am not sure how people can rate Bails kicking better than theirs though, I love his run and carry and courage, but kicking is not his stron point.

[Harrisonrules 273]

For all his good points Bartram is the worst. Unless he is running full tilt forward where he has to kick at about 50% success rate, he stops and takes an inordinate amnount of time to decide where to next, then invariable kicks back about 30 metres at most and we are in a worse position. They have zoned up and are pressing forward.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,000]

There is nothing wrong with the tactic. The execution was lacking. If you're going to switch play it has to be done quickly. We were so slow doing it that the bombers' entire defensive zone had reached that side of the field before the ball did.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

I kept a close eye on kickouts at Etihad on Thursday too. Garland isn't a very good kick or decision maker, as is Warnock, and that proved costly (and to add to that, the Essendon cheersquad were doing annoying chanting when we were about to kick it in, I was sitting right near them). Green took one at one stage, IMO opinion Green is the best kick on our team. Davey used to be but his unique kicking style and ball drop can sometimes cause the ball to go far too low and skid along the ground. I remember in our intra club game, Strauss implemented the torpedo, that could certainly be good use, maybe we should just give strauss a place in our team as a designated torpedo man?

[Melb16 458]

Reeally good OP. I pretty much agree with everything you've said.

Sometimes it's like we implement what we do at training, but forget their is opposition and pressure. The players come across as robots rather than thinking through the situation. How many times do you sit there are scream 'NOOO' when they kick backwards to a Warnock ot Bartram! Sometimes they don't even glance forward.

I watched a bit of the Sydney v Collingwood match and the Swans were doing what we did, but they then had a next option once they switched so it worked. I think we almost just do it for the sake of it and try an deal with the problem (everyone is matched up and we are further back than were we started) once it arises.

Maybe it was just workrate, inexperience, or rustiness, but it has indeed been happening for a long time.

Our kickouts still looked horrible, and our zone for their kickouts was weak. We seem not to be able to get out of the 50, yet we almost let them get to the wing! It baffles me.

[Schneider 220]

2009 I'd often prefer the opposition to just score the goal, I was convinced we couldn't get the ball out of the 50 anyway. Thought we improved in this arean in 2010 but Essendon game was a worry.

I agree, think Davey is the best option for kick-out.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Welcome back STMJ... Been a while. I never thought I'd say this... but you've been missed. Particularly by the Morton fans.

I might leave your topic to others... Except to say, you're right. Bennell isn't much chop yet going the other way. Though I'd like to see him find a place somewhere, as his pace could be lethal one day. I'm definitely in the "is he or isn't he soft?" bandwagon though.

Garland's kicking is ok. Certainly deserves a pass for mine... though the others? I think you're pretty much right.

Cheers Dappa. Would like to hear your opinion too however!

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Nice to get some other opinions.

For me, I battle to understand whether it's

a- Not enough elite kickers in our side (backline especially) Drafting problem?

b- A player not being able to make the right decision under pressure, resulting in a rushed kick which misses

the target.

c- Bailey nailing "switch at all costs" into the backline which means they won't even look elsewhere to see

whether or not there is a better option. A kick to 'our' advantage. kickout strategy problem?

e- A combination of a couple or all of the above?

What I feel is imperative in any case is to have a player with a sound kick and a great decision maker under

pressure. This is definitely not Garland. He doesn't have a good enough strike rate when kicking out of the backline and when defenders press up and put pressure on him and the team, he seems to crumble and miss a short target or bomb long aimlessly.

To me, Grimes has a better footy brain and is a smarter user of the footy. Sometimes he just gets his execution wrong. So for me he is one option to persist with. (I know him and Garland are used, but Garland is given more time kicking out).

Strauss is another candidate. He was drafted for his kicking ability. It's nab cup. Why the bleep aren't we giving him a shot at kicking out?! If there is nothing long to go to, he can go short. And I feel so much more comfortable with him kicking that short one out of the square compared to Garland.

So Grimes and Strauss get the nod over Garland (and any other backman) for me, but the one who I believe should be doing the kicking out 70-80 % of the time is Aaron Davey. Yes, I know he has been training with the forwards this year but let's just look at the pro's of him kicking out...

* Strike rate? From the square, when he has a bit of time, he would hit targets more often and at greater pace. I

see that he gets cutesy sometimes when he has little space to work with and tries to hit ridiculous targets from

the smallest of spaces. But give him some space and he won't let you down.

* Tag anyone? If he is being tagged heavily, (and I'm sure he will be at times this year) it will take away the

concentration of the tagger. He will either be trying to zone to fill holes, or be fixated on Davey's every move.

Either way, Davey has a bit of time and space after the kickout to make position up field and get back into the

play.

* If Davey or Grimes/Strauss kick out it means we have another tall, strong marking defender (Garland) to kick to if

we opt to go for that long kickout.

I really don't see how the negatives outweigh the positives on this one? The only reasonable explanation is that

Bailey wants to play Davey forward which will be useless to the team when the ball is locked in our backline. If he is further up the field when the kickout occurs, her will be tagged and pretty ineffective anyway. He is not an extractor of the ball. He is a give to player with an unbelievably creative and effective kick when given space.

Kicking out gives him that space and saves the whole team that 'tug of war' game we seem to have when we kickout.

I won't even get started on our defensive zone when the opposition kickout... Oyoyoy...

Edited February 27, 2011 by stevethemanjordan

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,662]

I hardly dare reply to your topic, "Steve the Man", since I am mercilessly ridiculed on this forum for trying to initiate discussion on our kick-ins, and defence of same.

I agree with your sentiments that we failed in this aspect of play last Thursday.

I agree that Etihad makes it difficult for us due to lack of space, but we MUST try to devise tactics to overcome this.

I'm less critical of Colin Garland's kicking. I think he can kick it a long way, so there should be leads 60m. out as an option for him.

I think it's a lack of movement from our players when the kick-in is being taken , that leads to the lack of options. Players take a breather when a point is scored instead of running for space.

More importantly, the ball must be kicked in as soon as possible, before the opposition has fully arranged its zone.