I agree that the market that theAFL now seeks to immerse itself in has hardly taken the Swans to their bosom. But they ( the west .) never were.. It's oil and water. The west would see the Swannies as top of the town toffs with nothing in common withe the pie and beer blue collar working west A home grown outfit will garner some sort of real following. It will be it's scale that will eventually deliver success or failure.

The AFL has targeted this region for all the right reasons (as it sees it) It's whether the locals will take to it in any meaningful way is the question. Ironically you'd only need a p!ss poor attendance of 10000 to outstrip an NRL sillyball game. And that in a nutshell is a looming problem for the AFL in that for some reason newsouthers love to watch their kids in under agers at the local park but hardly watch a top level game in person. This is still an ongoing problem even at Swannies games... bums on seats!! More went when winning then abandoned them when they slipped. Very fickle crowd north of the Murray.

Sheedy and co are doing a reasonable job of reinventing itself ( gws) in the hope something strikes a chord with the new neighborhood. The reality is until the Giants start combat for real we won't be able to gain any appreciation of the interest it generates.

the introduction of another team to Sydney does seem a drastic and radical decision, given the Swans are still trying to keep maintain their foothold in the Sydney market and continue to struggle to compete for attention against the other codes. I would have thought the emphasis for the AFL to expand the market was to ensure the Swans were embraced by the Western Suburbs of Sydney and build off their history and success rather than manufacture something from nothing.

the introduction of another team to Sydney does seem a drastic and radical decision, given the Swans are still trying to keep maintain their foothold in the Sydney market and continue to struggle to compete for attention against the other codes. I would have thought the emphasis for the AFL to expand the market was to ensure the Swans were embraced by the Western Suburbs of Sydney and build off their history and success rather than manufacture something from nothing.

There is a sane comment. "Clean up the Backyard one already has before trying to increase your Liabilities"

Sydney people do not care for the swans for more than 5 minutes, and if the ceased to be would not break stride. So what chance GWS Giants??

the introduction of another team to Sydney does seem a drastic and radical decision, given the Swans are still trying to keep maintain their foothold in the Sydney market and continue to struggle to compete for attention against the other codes. I would have thought the emphasis for the AFL to expand the market was to ensure the Swans were embraced by the Western Suburbs of Sydney and build off their history and success rather than manufacture something from nothing.

The Swans and the Giants are two vastly different markets

The Swans and the Giants are two vastly different markets

Not really. To say that is just an escape valve if things go wrong.

The AFL is looking for the entertainment Dollar from sydney, both inner and outer suburban. Both Franchaises exist for that reason, which is a main reason why i think it is very dangerous to start GWS when after almost 30 years & a premiership the Swans are still quite an oddity in Sydney.

The Swans and the Giants are two vastly different markets

Yeah,

One is a very difficult rugby based market and

One is an extremely difficult rugby based market

Incorrect, New Ltd owns about half. Murdoch's meddling over the past thee decades is the root cause of all the [censored] off fans and shambles they have now. NRL and Super League merger was a marriage made in hell. I still don't see the logic of pushing into a market which has not even fully accepted the Swans. I think the move is far too premature. Ask any Sydney siders. The cultural barriers are huge. In NSW they are as parochial as us. They will never take up our game with a passion just like we reject rugby. I prefer the AFl consolidates areas of neglected core support first. The GC is a good move. But I'd like to see Tasmania, ACT, Southern NSW and NT considered for more of a national presence first.

Not at all. He owns 50% but runs the management of the whole outfit. You need to look at who actually controls NRL. Its News. Murdoch is going nowhere and if he does it all goes NRL collapses. I'm not surprised you dont see the logic. NSW is not as parochial as Victoria at all. NSW has league, RU, AFL and A league competing for air time. In Victoria neither league nor union get any oxygen.

The cultural barriers are not huge as you think. NRL is seriously damaged brand in the community. They have alienated and offended women on mass. Their players exhibit at regular frequency all the social ills the make families revile and sponsors sick.

I am not sure what there is to consolidate in Tasmania as AFL has won hands down. And ACT from pilot programs with the Kangaroos does not have the demographic. The NT has the highest per capita GOverment funding of any State. It also has the smallest economy. There is no economic upside in the NT has they are all AFL mad.

The AFL supplies games for broadcast on Fox. They'll lose half their subsriptions without AFL. He has no ownership of the league or clubs. And thank God for that. I hope the AFL is wary of keeping the likes of him at arms length. The AFL should also be wary of over reaching themselves as has Murdoch.

Think about it. The AFL would not be able to get the TV rights it does without Foxtel being able to on buy a set number of games from either Ch 9 or the 7/10 group. The TV rights just dont work if Foxtel are not in the picture. I think you worry too much about the AFL without the facts.

Yeah,

One is a very difficult rugby based market and

One is an extremely difficult rugby based market

HaHaHa! If only i had written that 3 minutes ago.

Not really. To say that is just an escape valve if things go wrong.

The AFL is looking for the entertainment Dollar from sydney, both inner and outer suburban. Both Franchaises exist for that reason, which is a main reason why i think it is very dangerous to start GWS when after almost 30 years & a premiership the Swans are still quite an oddity in Sydney.

what you say is essentially right. The AFL is looking to attract those two areas. But how youd go about it is quite different.

travelling out along the Great Western Highway leads to strange lands. It is not the same ilk as those who have likely embraced , if only superficially ( and isnt that Sydney to a t...or S ..lol ) the Swans.

were talking beamers v holdens.

if you dont beleive me...ask Sydneysiders. true dinks

Let's all be thankful we have Rhino to show us the way

Let's all be thankful we have Rhino to show us the way

Sorry RR. Thats got to be post of the year

what you say is essentially right. The AFL is looking to attract those two areas. But how youd go about it is quite different.

travelling out along the Great Western Highway leads to strange lands. It is not the same ilk as those who have likely embraced , if only superficially ( and isnt that Sydney to a t...or S ..lol ) the Swans.

were talking beamers v holdens.

if you dont beleive me...ask Sydneysiders. true dinks

Still Dollars in wallets whoever and where ever you live. TV advertising is the same in inner sydney as it is out in the west. Out west there is already 3 Rugby League sides that contest for those dollars so i find it hard to see the AFL's vision.

GWS would have to win 10 flags in a decade for anyone to care out there, and even then most people will not "really" care.

How many people really care that the storm have won 3 flags (2 that have now vanished) in melbourne? And if the storm disappeared from existence would anybody be outraged for more than 4 minutes? i wouldn't care, and nor will inner or outer sydney care if AFL lives or dies.

(i do know the Great Western Highway you speak of, not well-but i have been out there, and yes it is most eerie!!

I'm surprised how many experts in the NSW sports market on this site refer to the NRL as Rugby. If you don't know what game is being played, you probably shouldn't comment on its impact on AFL.

There is huge potential in Western Sydney for AFL. AusKick numbers are already getting big, and there are a lot of ex-southerners in Sydney who will jump on the new team.

Let's all be thankful we have Rhino to show us the way

You should be. B)

i find it hard to see the AFL's vision.

I agree.

Let's all be thankful we have Rhino to show us the way

Bahahaha!!!

I'm surprised how many experts in the NSW sports market on this site refer to the NRL as Rugby. If you don't know what game is being played, you probably shouldn't comment on its impact on AFL.

There is huge potenrtial in Western Sydney for AFL. AusKick numbers are allready getting big, and there are a lot of ex-southerners in Sydney who wil jump on the new team.

Dont tell them that. Some of them have even been to Sydney...No truly they have. B)

If AFL is going to expand and survive they need to be a truly national sport. GW Sydney is last demographic frontier with the GC. Its not without its risks. However, if the AFL dont commit to LT expansion then it will calcify and wither. It cant grow much further in the Southern Australian States and NT. It already dominates the landscape by a large margin.

Dont tell them that. Some of them have even been to Sydney...No truly they have. B)

If AFL is going to expand and survive they need to be a truly national sport. GW Sydney is last demographic frontier with the GC. Its not without its risks. However, if the AFL dont commit to LT expansion then it will calcify and wither. It cant grow much further in the Southern Australian States and NT. It already dominates the landscape by a large margin.

Ahhh some sense

There is huge potenrtial in Western Sydney for AFL. AusKick numbers are allready getting big, and there are a lot of ex-southerners in Sydney who wil jump on the new team.

Yes but for how long?

Ex southerners are not the answer, they already support an AFL side. Sure they may buy a membership next year for GWS but you could not count on that long term.

Humour of GWS...(This guy cracks me up btw-he is proud of his origins)

enjoy.

I'm surprised how many experts in the NSW sports market on this site refer to the NRL as Rugby. If you don't know what game is being played, you probably shouldn't comment on its impact on AFL.

Don't be a smartarz Thomo.

I used the term 'rugby' to cover both league and union.

Its presumptuous of you to assume what we know and don't know

and lets not get into a "what is rugby" argument (or for that matter "what is football" argument)

Nice try, but no cigar

Yes but for how long?

Ex southerners are not the answer, they already support an AFL side. Sure they may buy a membership next year for GWS but you could not count on that long term.

I have lived in Sydney for six years, there is a market there. Initially ex-southerners will jump on board, followed by migrant children, and parents who don't want their kids to pay league against islanders who weigh 30kg's more than them. It's already growing

This expansion is needed to ensure the long term health of the AFL. Cash doesn't just come from those turning up at the gate or tuning in every week. The AFL are selling a truly national brand with national exposure to potential sponsors. The AFL grand final is normally the highest watched TV show each year. More column inches are devoted to AFL than any other topic in newspapers around the country. Cricket has traditionally been the only truly national sport, but this is now dwindling, with Soccer and AFL now becoming the most exposed.

When sponsors want to invest big money they look for the number one avenue, in Australia it's AFL, that's where the money comes from. They either sponsor clubs direct, through the AFL or buy space in the media, that's why the television rights are almost double for AFL compared to the NRL. It's not that twice as many people watch AFL, it’s that it is the number one watched sport so it attracts a premium and adds cost twice as much. That's why AFL need to move into Western Sydney and Southern Queensland, to ensure they are the number one brand in Australia.

Don't be a smartarz Thomo.

I used the term 'rugby' to cover both league and union.

Its presumptuous of you to assume what we know and don't know

and lets not get into a "what is rugby" argument (or for that matter "what is football" argument)

Nice try, but no cigar

Not being smart, you are wrong. It's two different sports, and to refer to them both as Rugby shows that you do not know much about sport in Sydney.

In Sydney and all over the world, Rugby union is known as Rugby, Rugby League is never known as Rugby, it is Rugby League, League, or just Football in NSW. If you called it Rugby in NSW you would look like a fool. It is the equivalent of going to Ireland and calling Gaelic football Australian Rules football.

I have lived in Sydney for six years, there is a market there. Initially ex-southerners will jump on board, followed by migrant children, and parents who don't want their kids to pay league against islanders who weigh 30kg's more than them. It's already growing

This expansion is needed to ensure the long term health of the AFL. Cash doesn't just come from those turning up at the gate or tuning in every week. The AFL are selling a truly national brand with national exposure to potential sponsors. The AFL grand final is normally the highest watched TV show each year. More column inches are devoted to AFL than any other topic in newspapers around the country. Cricket has traditionally been the only truly national sport, but this is now dwindling, with Soccer and AFL now becoming the most exposed.

When sponsors want to invest big money they look for the number one avenue, in Australia it's AFL, that's where the money comes from. They either sponsor clubs direct, through the AFL or buy space in the media, that's why the television rights are almost double for AFL compared to the NRL. It's not that twice as many people watch AFL, it’s that it is the number one watched sport so it attracts a premium and adds cost twice as much. That's why AFL need to move into Western Sydney and Southern Queensland, to ensure they are the number one brand in Australia.

i agree with you on the TV issue, but to me that already exists. What worries me far more is the amount of money the AFL will need to continually pump into GWS for decades, while established clubs struggle to keep up. Is that expansion?? I am not sure..But it is going to happen so i will suck it and see i suppose.

Sometimes i wonder about continual expansion as a means of survival, it doesn't always work. Port Adelaide as an example. But for the sake of the game i do hope it works, so that money is not wasted.

Not being smart, you are wrong. It's two different sports, and to refer to them both as Rugby shows that you do not know much about sport in Sydney.

In Sydney and all over the world, Rugby union is known as Rugby, Rugby League is never known as Rugby, it is Rugby League, League, or just Football in NSW. If you called it Rugby in NSW you would look like a fool. It is the equivalent of going to Ireland and calling Gaelic football Australian Rules football.

Geez. I know all that.

We are on a victorian forum and as I said I used the term to encompass both codes for brevity, instead e.g. of saying "rugby league and rugby union".

If it was a sydney forum I probably wouldn't have put it that way

your point on correct terminology is valid but not your point on being ignorant of sport in sydney. Clumsy maybe.

And BTW I'm not saying the AFL shouldn't tackle the market. Just that it is a very difficult market with high risk and long odds of success. Of course in the end it depends on how you measure "success". The AFL have the funds to bankroll it for decades. To me ultimate success will be when Sydney bred players represent at least 10% of all AFL players and AFL gets decent media coverage in Sydney.

Geez. I know all that.

We are on a victorian forum and as I said I used the term to encompass both codes for brevity, instead e.g. of saying "rugby league and rugby union".

If it was a sydney forum I probably wouldn't have put it that way

your point on correct terminology is valid but not your point on being ignorant of sport in sydney. Clumsy maybe.

And BTW I'm not saying the AFL shouldn't tackle the market. Just that it is a very difficult market with high risk and long odds of success. Of course in the end it depends on how you measure "success". The AFL have the funds to bankroll it for decades. To me ultimate success will be when Sydney bred players represent at least 10% of all AFL players and AFL gets decent media coverage in Sydney.

I don't think success will be measured on the actually performance/profitability of the new Clubs, I think it will be if AFL is the clear number one sport in the country, measured by total revenue, in the coming decades, the AFL will consider it a success. If GWS are losing $10 million per year, but are helping to get $1 billion dollars for the TV rights, I'd say they will be considered a success by those in charge.