NFL

[Gorgoroth 12,717]

I'd rather they go for wins over drafts

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

I'm gutted, we lose Bradford for the year and our next game is MNF against the Seahawks... God damn it!

I should give up on sport, between, Melbourne, the rams and Bolton Wanderers I get nothing but heartache.

CFH Freeman was terrible, hi constantly threw high, will Ponder come back?

If Ponder comes back next week it's just musical chairs. 3 QB's in 3 weeks is not a good look. Ponder can connect with Rudolph our TE but they are short passes. He can hit Simpson for 10 yards but he can't hit Jennings or Patterson on any pass 15+ yards. I thought it was rough to sit him in week 3. I think the Vikes head office believe that after last years 10-6 record we would jump to a 12-4 record and take the division. I never saw that happening and predicted us playing like last years Detroit. They were up in 2011 and last year they were very ordinary. I have no idea who should be our QB for the rest of the year and I don't think the coaches do either.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Seems to be a bit of panic in the leadership Cowboy. Talk about setting Freeman up to fail. Looks like a really tough schedule for your guys ahead as well. Unfortunately being a Bengals fan and with our past struggles I know only too well what you are going through and as we both know ...it sucks. Hopefully with regime change next season the wheel will turn. This a deep draft for QB's so even if Freeman doesn't work out either, you will have the chance to draft someone who has the tools to succeed.

Yep it's a bit of a shambles at the moment. Our defense and AP set up Ponder in a lot of games but this year AP and our defense is not the greatest. Is Menzel eligible for the draft this year? I think he is a little twerp and a JJ Watt tackle would be great to see.

[Strafford 182]

Yep it's a bit of a shambles at the moment. Our defense and AP set up Ponder in a lot of games but this year AP and our defense is not the greatest. Is Menzel eligible for the draft this year? I think he is a little twerp and a JJ Watt tackle would be great to see.

Your guys are a bit stuck now, they can't start Ponder just in case he does well and they are dtermined to move on from him. The problem is Freeman was struggling in an offence he had studied for months, it was nuts to think he could pick up another scheme in less than two weeks. It seems a bit similar to the crazy decisions the Browns and Raiders were making before they made leadership changes.

Do you mean Johnny Manziel? Is so I agree he is a twerp. If he wanted to he actually could stay in school for another two years after this as he is a redshirt sophomore, as is Marcus Mariota from Oregon who I think will be a gun. If they do come out early this class could be awesome. Pretty much a QB to suit any team. Lots of read option guys and traditional drop back passers such as Teddy Bridgewater who will probably go number 1. Very deep draft for cornerbacks as well, which is fortunate for the Bengals as we probably need two, although a miracle could occur and Kirkpatrick with more opportunity could show something.

It has a few quirks the American system. This declaring for the draft early stuff really complicates things and makes any long term planning for NFL recruiters tough, just because you don't know who is going to be available until quitelate in the process. Also the rules around when recruiters can actually contact prospects is really strict and would make it especially tough to assess character isues.

[Macca 16,651]

If Ponder comes back next week it's just musical chairs. 3 QB's in 3 weeks is not a good look. Ponder can connect with Rudolph our TE but they are short passes. He can hit Simpson for 10 yards but he can't hit Jennings or Patterson on any pass 15+ yards. I thought it was rough to sit him in week 3. I think the Vikes head office believe that after last years 10-6 record we would jump to a 12-4 record and take the division. I never saw that happening and predicted us playing like last years Detroit. They were up in 2011 and last year they were very ordinary. I have no idea who should be our QB for the rest of the year and I don't think the coaches do either.

If a clinical view is taken then we could surmise that Ponder has had a line ruled through his name and Cassel was only ever brought in as a back-up. So ... the Vikes take a punt and give Freeman another chance. They may well have known that the whole thing was going to be out of synch but decided to go with it anyway.

Freeman has been named as the starter again by the looks of it. He really needs a number of games to settle in. Only time will tell but Ponder wasn't doing anything startling. Sometimes these organizations make tough decisions now for possible long term benefits. I don't have a problem with these sort of moves.

It's the Packers next week but at least Josh has one game under his belt. They would have all learnt a lot from Monday's game. I also thought there were more than a few catches 'not taken' - the Giants were in the same boat. Sometimes a receiver needs to turn a tough chance into a reception - we didn't see a lot of that on Monday night.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Your guys are a bit stuck now, they can't start Ponder just in case he does well and they are dtermined to move on from him. The problem is Freeman was struggling in an offence he had studied for months, it was nuts to think he could pick up another scheme in less than two weeks. It seems a bit similar to the crazy decisions the Browns and Raiders were making before they made leadership changes.

Do you mean Johnny Manziel? Is so I agree he is a twerp. If he wanted to he actually could stay in school for another two years after this as he is a redshirt sophomore, as is Marcus Mariota from Oregon who I think will be a gun. If they do come out early this class could be awesome. Pretty much a QB to suit any team. Lots of read option guys and traditional drop back passers such as Teddy Bridgewater who will probably go number 1. Very deep draft for cornerbacks as well, which is fortunate for the Bengals as we probably need two, although a miracle could occur and Kirkpatrick with more opportunity could show something.

It has a few quirks the American system. This declaring for the draft early stuff really complicates things and makes any long term planning for NFL recruiters tough, just because you don't know who is going to be available until quitelate in the process. Also the rules around when recruiters can actually contact prospects is really strict and would make it especially tough to assess character isues.

I'd be happy not to take a QB in the first round next year. Ponder was a pick 12 and as i'm sure you know a first round QB who fails can set your team back years. Yeah I meant Manziel. Looks to be a little [censored] who needs a smack in the mouth. Great talent though.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

If a clinical view is taken then we could surmise that Ponder has had a line ruled through his name and Cassel was only ever brought in as a back-up. So ... the Vikes take a punt and give Freeman another chance. They may well have known that the whole thing was going to be out of synch but decided to go with it anyway.

Freeman has been named as the starter again by the looks of it. He really needs a number of games to settle in. Only time will tell but Ponder wasn't doing anything startling. Sometimes these organizations make tough decisions now for possible long term benefits. I don't have a problem with these sort of moves.

It's the Packers next week but at least Josh has one game under his belt. They would have all learnt a lot from Monday's game. I also thought there were more than a few catches 'not taken' - the Giants were in the same boat. Sometimes a receiver needs to turn a tough chance into a reception - we didn't see a lot of that on Monday night.

Ponder is a good team QB. By that I mean with AP and a our defense we were able to get that wildcard. But Ponder could never take the game on and win it off his own arm. The only deep throw I remember from him was last year against your packers when AP was going for the rushing record. Can your boys keep it together injury wise to go after the NFC North title again?

[Macca 16,651]

Ponder is a good team QB. By that I mean with AP and a our defense we were able to get that wildcard. But Ponder could never take the game on and win it off his own arm. The only deep throw I remember from him was last year against your packers when AP was going for the rushing record. Can your boys keep it together injury wise to go after the NFC North title again?

Yep, agree with your appraisal of Ponder and ...

... at Lambeau, we're taking it one week at a time!

I'll take any sort of win next week. AP is due and he always seems to do well against Green Bay ... and if Josh hits some targets as well? It's got trap game written all over it!

[Strafford 182]

I'd be happy not to take a QB in the first round next year. Ponder was a pick 12 and as i'm sure you know a first round QB who fails can set your team back years. Yeah I meant Manziel. Looks to be a little [censored] who needs a smack in the mouth. Great talent though.

There should be a lot of capable guys throughout this draft. It perhaps doesn't have the star power of the Luck RG3 draft, but the talent runs deep especially if those underclassmen nominate. The trick is for teams not to take them too early due to desperation for a QB. Some of the expectations put on these first round QB's is just crazy, because many of them shouldn't be taken in the first round. If you take them later you can sit them for bit and teach them properly. A lot of these guys aren't thinking for themselves in college games and wouldn't dare sneeze unless their coach told them to let alone make adjustments at the line or make more than one read So many of these QB's are just chewed up and spat out rather than be developed properly. Look at how many of the best QB's in the comp actually sat for a bit before being thrown in. Yet the coaches and front offices still persist in throwing guys to wolves who aren't ready. Does my head in. The most successful QB's at the Bengals have all been 2nd round or later, with a number of duds taken in the first. Rant over...

[titan_uranus 24,755]

Yep, agree with your appraisal of Ponder and ...

... at Lambeau, we're taking it one week at a time!

I'll take any sort of win next week. AP is due and he always seems to do well against Green Bay ... and if Josh hits some targets as well? It's got trap game written all over it!

Word is that Freeman is out concussed and Ponder will start on SNF: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000268404/article/josh-freeman-has-concussion-christian-ponder-at-qb

Freeman's surely the better long-term option, but comparing Freeman to Ponder is a bit like comparing Weeden to Gabbert.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Word is that Freeman is out concussed and Ponder will start on SNF: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000268404/article/josh-freeman-has-concussion-christian-ponder-at-qb

Freeman's surely the better long-term option, but comparing Freeman to Ponder is a bit like comparing Weeden to Gabbert.

Yep ponder is back for this week. Vikings fans probably take 3 guernsey's to the game. One for each QB. Does anyone have favre's number? I might give him a call and see what he is up to.

[Macca 16,651]

TV games ...

Friday

11.30am Carolina at Tampa Bay (OneHD & ESPN)

Monday

4.00am Buffalo at New Orleans (OneHD)

7.05am NY Jets at Cincinnati (Fox1)

7.25am Washington at Denver (OneHD)

11.30am Green Bay at Minnesota (OneHD & ESPN)

Tuesday

11.30am Seattle at St. Louis (ESPN)

... all the other week 8 games

Tips ...

Panthers

49ers

Seattle

... Ponder might put together one of those "Nobody believes in me" games so I'm steering clear of the SNF match-up!

The Jets/Bengals game is worth a look see and Washington might take it up to Denver (RG3 looks to be getting his form back) Of the non TV games, Dallas @ Detroit and the Giants @ Philadelphia hold some interest.

[Gorgoroth 12,717]

Seattle

San Fran

Pittsburgh

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

San Fran

Green Bay

Seattle

Pretty Straight forward games this week. Jets and Bengals could be the pick of the bunch. Or if a flogging is more your style Green Bay at Minnesota should be a massacre. We lost to the browns at home. Imagine what Rodgers will do to us?

Edited October 24, 2013 by cowboy_from_hell

[Strafford 182]

Niners

Packers

Seahawks

Would have taken the Panthers, but Cam worries me, as he could play lights out or sulk

My apologies to Cowboy and Gorgoroth, but if I'm wrong I'm sure you will give it to me. With Ponder in last chance saloon I could certainly see him playing a big one and wouldn't that complicate the Freeman master plan Cowboy?

Edit Just saw your picks Cowboy...ouch.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Strafford

[Gorgoroth 12,717]

Lol I chose Seattle over Rams simply cos when we lose at least I got a tip right. If we win... Who cares about the tip!!!

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Niners

Packers

Seahawks

Would have taken the Panthers, but Cam worries me, as he could play lights out or sulk

My apologies to Cowboy and Gorgoroth, but if I'm wrong I'm sure you will give it to me. With Ponder in last chance saloon I could certainly see him playing a big one and wouldn't that complicate the Freeman master plan Cowboy?

Edit Just saw your picks Cowboy...ouch.

Agree about the panthers. They have put a couple of good games together but I can't trust newton yet.

The freeman signing seems to be more of a gm and coach trying to salvage a season and keep their jobs rather then a master plan. Head office seems to be frustrated that in the off season we added Jennings and Patterson as receivers but ponder didn't show anything. Is Geno going to take it up to your boys? Should be a good game.

[Macca 16,651]

Cam had a big game today ... Geno, Stafford, Tannehill, Freeman and Newton all could end up being very good QB's ... or, a few of those 5 could end up being just short of that or worse. Still haven't seen a lot of Tannehill but he gets talked up a lot. Romo and Ryan could be either/or as well (although 'Matty Ice' hasn't done a lot wrong)

There's nearly always a team that comes out of the blue and ends up with a 10-6 type season (often making the playoffs as well) I wonder if Carolina are that team? They've got a few tough games in the remainder of their schedule but I can see them getting to at least 9 wins ... Panthers schedule The 2nd wild-card in the NFC is up for grabs ... the 49ers and Seattle should, as expected, both progress from the NFC West.

And where to now for Tampa? Zero wins with the coach under the hammer.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Cam had a big game today ... Geno, Stafford, Tannehill, Freeman and Newton all could end up being very good QB's ... or, a few of those 5 could end up being just short of that or worse. Still haven't seen a lot of Tannehill but he gets talked up a lot. Romo and Ryan could be either/or as well (although 'Matty Ice' hasn't done a lot wrong)

There's nearly always a team that comes out of the blue and ends up with a 10-6 type season (often making the playoffs as well) I wonder if Carolina are that team? They've got a few tough games in the remainder of their schedule but I can see them getting to at least 9 wins ... Panthers schedule The 2nd wild-card in the NFC is up for grabs ... the 49ers and Seattle should, as expected, both progress from the NFC West.

And where to now for Tampa? Zero wins with the coach under the hammer.

They are taking it well in Tampa. A radio station payed for this billboard. Tampa don't have much to look forward to. The Schiano Freeman relationship could spell the end for Schiano. For a while it looked like Tampa had their QB and could build around him. Now they are starting from scratch again. The Panthers are looking ok. If Newton can hold it together maybe a wildcard spot is on the cards. One other thing that needs to be fired in Tampa is that bloody cannon. Commentators nearly packed themselves when it would go off for a first down. Tampa didn't get a TD until the 4th quarter so they had plenty of ammo to get rid of. So at every chance they just fired the thing. A first down isn't worthy of a cannon salute. I do note that the vikings horn can be annoying as well. But it doesn't sound like a bomb has gone off.

[Strafford 182]

Lol I chose Seattle over Rams simply cos when we lose at least I got a tip right. If we win... Who cares about the tip!!!

Good move mate. Something positive no matter what happens I reckon we all would be pretty happy if the teams of our fellow NFL fans get up, with the exceptions of when they play your own team or if that team is a mortal enemy of course. As much as I appreciate the prestige associated with our tipping comp the happiness of our little group of NFL fans is more important.

[Strafford 182]

Agree about the panthers. They have put a couple of good games together but I can't trust newton yet.

The freeman signing seems to be more of a gm and coach trying to salvage a season and keep their jobs rather then a master plan. Head office seems to be frustrated that in the off season we added Jennings and Patterson as receivers but ponder didn't show anything. Is Geno going to take it up to your boys? Should be a good game.

Looks like Cam had his superman suit on. No wonder the Panthers are so undisciplined, their coach was behaving like a pork chop on the sideline and they were winning easily:)

Geno certainly can take it up to us. Under Lewis we are under .500 against rookie QB's. It seems we need plenty of gametape to come up with a plan, non of this adapting to circumstance business:) We also struggle against against guys who have only played a handful of games as well. Thus Hoyer got us and the Bills bloke nearly did as well.

We should win, but if Geno can get the ball out quickly and negate our pass rush our secondary is vulnerable. On the defensive side the Jets are really good and if they can shut AJ down we will struggle. Not because we don't have other guys that can catch the ball, because our completion rates are much better to targets other than AJ, but just because it is what we do. Against the Browns despite it not working we still continually threw to AJ for 7 completions from 16 targets. Bit of tunnel vision for us at times.

Just like Macca I am taking it one week at a time, we have beaten some good teams, but a plus 13 points differential after winning 5 of 7 games doesn't indicate an elite team yet.

Couple of fun facts Andy Dalton is the most accurate QB for throws under 5 yards so far these season and the AFC North doesn't have a running back averaging over 4 yards a carry. Ray Rice is averaging under 3 on over 80 attempts. What has happened to our division?

Edited October 26, 2013 by Strafford

[Macca 16,651]

Good move mate. Something positive no matter what happens I reckon we all would be pretty happy if the teams of our fellow NFL fans get up, with the exceptions of when they play your own team or if that team is a mortal enemy of course. As much as I appreciate the prestige associated with our tipping comp the happiness of our little group of NFL fans is more important.

I've never really disliked any of the other NFL teams (just about all my distaste and hate is taken up by the AFL!) It's rather ironic that the 'Other Sports' threads rarely, if ever, plunge into arguments like you'd think they could.

As much as I'm a Packers fan, I'm a real fan of the sport itself and the NFL lends itself to the fans knowing quite a bit about all the other teams. With some sports it's about your own team and not much else.

Anyway, I reckon you'll beat the Jets but it could be close. In the 5 Jets games this season where the game has been decided by a TD or less, the Jets have won 4 of them. And Geno looks ok in the pocket - you'll need to pressure him!

[Strafford 182]

I've never really disliked any of the other NFL teams (just about all my distaste and hate is taken up by the AFL!) It's rather ironic that the 'Other Sports' threads rarely, if ever, plunge into arguments like you'd think they could.

As much as I'm a Packers fan, I'm a real fan of the sport itself and the NFL lends itself to the fans knowing quite a bit about all the other teams. With some sports it's about your own team and not much else.

Anyway, I reckon you'll beat the Jets but it could be close. In the 5 Jets games this season where the game has been decided by a TD or less, the Jets have won 4 of them. And Geno looks ok in the pocket - you'll need to pressure him!

Enjoyment of the NFL is something we have in common, but you would think supporting Melbourne would be as well. I have certainly found the NFL thread much more civil than the main board:)

[Macca 16,651]

Enjoyment of the NFL is something we have in common, but you would think supporting Melbourne would be as well. I have certainly found the NFL thread much more civil than the main board:)

The MFC losing for the past number of years just puts people into foul moods. We're all looking for answers and some feel like they know the solution but the truth is we have absolutely zero influence. Just a whole bunch of opinions - sometimes we're right but often we're wrong.

All we can really do is hope for the best. At least with Roos we know we've got a capable coach who should be able to get the best out of the list. I'm hopeful (that's as far as I'm sticking my neck out!)

Back on NFL matters - was chatting to a mate the other day about helmets and how they've become a weapon over the years. I can see the day where no player (offensive and defensive) will be allowed to lead with his helmet - in any situation. Incidental contact might be allowed much like it is in marking contests in the AFL.

The reason I say this is because it needs to be fair for all. For instance, a RB can lead with his helmet when he's not outside of the tackle (and in that situation he can hit an opposition player anywhere) yet a DB needs to always hit below the shoulders when leading with his helmet (the knee has become a target) We all like to see the big hits but with litigation the way it is, change will happen (it's already started of course with the 'Crown of the helmet rule')

[DeeSpencer 24,816]

They are taking it well in Tampa. A radio station payed for this billboard. Tampa don't have much to look forward to. The Schiano Freeman relationship could spell the end for Schiano. For a while it looked like Tampa had their QB and could build around him. Now they are starting from scratch again. The Panthers are looking ok. If Newton can hold it together maybe a wildcard spot is on the cards. One other thing that needs to be fired in Tampa is that bloody cannon. Commentators nearly packed themselves when it would go off for a first down. Tampa didn't get a TD until the 4th quarter so they had plenty of ammo to get rid of. So at every chance they just fired the thing. A first down isn't worthy of a cannon salute. I do note that the vikings horn can be annoying as well. But it doesn't sound like a bomb has gone off.

Schiano is out Neelding the great man himself. Just replace Freeman with Moloney and a few other names and you get Mark Neeld at Melbourne. A power hungry fool is Schiano. And that cannon might just be Tampa's version of Melbourne's bugle.

Anyway my frustrating sports fan life continues with the Bears. We finally get a coach in who has a clue about offense, O line play and protecting and utilising your above average QB in Cutler and our successful defense goes over the hill age wise and then has injury after injury. 3 DT injured, 2 starting line backers injured, gun CB Tillman playing on a dodgy knee and most of the rest of the defense is average as well. Bears are 4-3 and we've been in the games in the losses but the combined win total of our opponents isn't pretty (Minn, Cinn, NYG, Wash).

Anyway it might be a slow decline for the bears this year with Cutler out injured. Wouldn't be surprised that despite being 4-3 now we finish 6-10 or 7-9. Major off season remodeling of the defense coming up. The offense got retooled nicely last year and this year we should re contracted Cutler and have contracts and talent in place on the O line, at TE and receiver. Defense need the past rush and front 7 completely remodeled and fresh talent in to the secondary. Change of plans to get back to good special teams would be nice as well. Losing our special teams coach to KC was a big loss.

Seeing what Rob Ryan has done with the saints and watching Rex get the Jets back and going this year I think it might be time that the Lovie Smith 4-3 Tampa 2/cover 2 is out and we go for a 3-4 defense.