I think that's the plan, he's enormous and from what I've hear has a bit of a mean streak. I get sick of seeing the players push and shove before the game, that's kids stuff, I would rather see them put their head over the ball and make the opposition a bit hesitant to. It's a bit like Dunn he's a big guy and probably pretty strong; but does anyone reckon he would frighten the opposition?

Miller used to be a hard man but that went out the door with his last suspension.

When hawthorn & Essendon were hard at one another in the '80's,,, they didn't have one or two tough nuts,,, we did. The Hawks & the Bombers each had at least 6 to 7 tough nuts who could play as well, in every side they put to field.

The theory of having a couple of tough nuts is rubbish.We need a team full of players who jump in & have a go to back their brothers.

Get Dermott Brereton over to talk to the club and get Luke Tapscott in ASAP

That tells me that we are still considered a soft and mentally weak team by those who have been inside our club before, and what we all deep down really know about our club, but were hoping wasn't the case anymore.

It tells me that they watched as their young side was bullied and now, after a few more years of development they are the bullies. In 3 years time our team will have "developed" the necessary strength, skills and guile to play the ball the way it needs to be played, with single minded intent. That's what's tough and you only need to watch Geelong to know that. Forget about Carlton, they don't have the spread of talent we have and they know it. They'll be another of our whipping boys in 3 to 4 years time.

While our third quarter comeback showed some steel, some very dubious umpiring decisions went our way which resulted in Melbourne goals. It also took until after quarter time for us apply any real pressure. What really disturbed me yesterday was the way Carlton confidently came out and bullied us from even before the first bounce. It was very interesting to watch Houlihan just pushing Grimes away from Betts like a schoolyard bully and the other players seemed to be unwilling to do anything about it. Whether they were worried about giving Carlton free kicks in front of goal. Houlihan spent much of the first half just blocking Grimes' path to Betts and it was extremely effective. It also seemed to bamboozle whoever was on Houlihan and freed him up do kick his own goals as well. A brilliant tactic and we had absolutely no counter to it. Grimes was obviously frustrated but didn't have the physical strength to do much about it. Warnock had his hands full, as did Rivers. Meanwhile, up the ground, Carlton were harassing us from Kruezer on Jamar right down to Carazzo on Davey. They had a arrogance and physical confidence about them which probably stems from their good form and the fact they they were bigger than us on average. The guys that normally work as our enforcers (Moloney, Sylvia, McDonald), had too much on their plates around the stoppages to worry about what was happening to Grimes at one end and Watts at the other. Why didn't Miller do something? It would have been worth him giving away a couple a cheap frees on the forward line to give Watts some support. I know Watts has to learn to fend for himself, and that yesterday he was pushed away from the contest like a skinny schoolkid, but Miller should have used his strength to counter what was going on. That's what Carlton did. They used smart intimidation to give there goalkickers an avenue to goal. I would hope that the coaching staff would work on this aspect during the next couple of weeks. While we have young inexperienced players learning the game, the older players need to support them. Jonathon Brown would never stand by and let stuff like that happen.

By the way, Watts does need to go back to Casey for a few weeks and develop some confidence, passion and attack on the ball. Also, we really missed Frawley yesterday for all the reasons above.

Very good post btdemon - was going to put up something similar myself.

I guess it is a symtom of a young team who has had limited success over the last couple of weeks and been bashed up by Geelong the previous week, but we were intimidated by the Blues. The most obvious to me was the way Carazzo was at Davey the whole time with constant niggles, coming off when he came off and even bashing him as he went to the boundary line. Interestingly, for someone who is an experienced footballer and who has extensive finals experience, Davey seemed easily put off his game. They tried similar tactics on Trengove, Scully and Gysberts but they seemed to handle it better. Generally though we were seriously out generalled, and yes out coached on the day. I agree we missed Frawley, but what i'm afraid of is that others will look at that and will copy it, and we will get a reputation as patsies. We need some hard bodies in there.

I also agree that Watts needs to return to Casey to get his confidence back. I personally do not believe he is ready for the big time yet. Just the same as NikNak is apparently lacking in confidence at the moment and is likely to be returned to the 2's, JW needs to learn some more skills particularly on the physical side of league football. I do not remember an A grade CHF as constantly muscled off the ball as Jack has been over the last two weeks and on Saturday he lost his footing far too easily. This guy WILL be great but we must be patient while he learns his craft. Meantime, Juice or Dunn IMO are better options.

To be honest, on current form Jack is a passenger (i hate to say it, but it seems he maintains his place because he was a number 1 draft choice - there is no way known he would be playing otherwise, he simply does not justify his position). Let him learn the trade in the 2s and either come back next year when he has had a full pre-season, or come back when he has had a few BOGs at Casey. I saw 80% of his games at Casey this year. and he was no where near BOG on any of them.

We were bullied. I for one am glad it happened.

Carlton planned well for the clash. They know we're coming and they wanted to let the boys know where they stood. Would have come straight from Ratten and his assistants. Unsettle the 'stars' of the Melbourne side. Davey, Grimes, Watts, etc... . It makes a statement, they wanted to make a statement and it was evident when a few of the Carlton players had a go at Betts for consoling Davey after the niggle. They would have known that Davey doesn't like it when intimidated and goes into his shell; gives away silly frees when upset.

Melbourne need to learn from it. Take stock. And when the boys are a bit more developed, stronger and confident, they can return a more committed bunch that can withstand any nonsense that needs to be dealt with, as well as dish it out when required to make their own statement.

We were bullied. I for one am glad it happened.

Carlton planned well for the clash. They know we're coming and they wanted to let the boys know where they stood. Would have come straight from Ratten and his assistants. Unsettle the 'stars' of the Melbourne side. Davey, Grimes, Watts, etc... . It makes a statement, they wanted to make a statement and it was evident when a few of the Carlton players had a go at Betts for consoling Davey after the niggle. They would have known that Davey doesn't like it when intimidated and goes into his shell; gives away silly frees when upset.

Melbourne need to learn from it. Take stock. And when the boys are a bit more developed, stronger and confident, they can return a more committed bunch that can withstand any nonsense that needs to be dealt with, as well as dish it out when required to make their own statement.

I agree with what you say. But why was the team not ready for what we got.

I saw that first Quarter in my head as i was coming through the city to the Ground.

i was amazed how meekly the team rolled over in the first Q.

To come back in the second & 3rd was great, but the damage was done.

i would love to know what was said before the Demons ran down the Race. Maybe the team was prepared, but just not yet ready.

I agree with what you say. But why was the team not ready for what we got.

I saw that first Quarter in my head as i was coming through the city to the Ground.

i was amazed how meekly the team rolled over in the first Q.

To come back in the second & 3rd was great, but the damage was done.

i would love to know what was said before the Demons ran down the Race. Maybe the team was prepared, but just not yet ready.

To me, that is being out coached. This is not the first time this has happened. North did something similar. Make very complimentary remarks about what a remarkable young side we are, then bash us up in the first quarter and put the game beyond reach. In fact, the patterns of those two games were very similar. To me, that is just being out flanked in the coaching box.

It makes a statement, they wanted to make a statement and it was evident when a few of the Carlton players had a go at Betts for consoling Davey after the niggle. They would have known that Davey doesn't like it when intimidated and goes into his shell; gives away silly frees when upset.

On that, how dumb was it of Betts to 'console' Davey? So dumb that it took that unhinged lunatic Mitch Robinson to tell him to pull his head in. I'd have been spewing if the roles at been reversed.

To me, that is being out coached. This is not the first time this has happened. North did something similar. Make very complimentary remarks about what a remarkable young side we are, then bash us up in the first quarter and put the game beyond reach. In fact, the patterns of those two games were very similar. To me, that is just being out flanked in the coaching box.

No its called greater pressure applied by one side on another. It comes down to how the players react and respond to the pressure. A few senior players left alot to be desire.

But Bailey should have a plan B for sides that "bash us up" in the first quarter...really

No its called greater pressure applied by one side on another. It comes down to how the players react and respond to the pressure. A few senior players left alot to be desire.

But Bailey should have a plan B for sides that "bash us up" in the first quarter...really

It did stop when we started winning our share of the footy in the second quarter. Execute plan A and they quickly find little to bully about.

The best way for Davey to get some respite is to put him on the footy, instead of on a wing. When Jamar wins more hit outs than he loses I can't believe they don't put Davey in the square more often and let him have a free run at the contest. You've also got 3 umpires watching so anything like a hold becomes a free kick.

I agree with what you say. But why was the team not ready for what we got.

I saw that first Quarter in my head as i was coming through the city to the Ground.

i was amazed how meekly the team rolled over in the first Q.

To come back in the second & 3rd was great, but the damage was done.

i would love to know what was said before the Demons ran down the Race. Maybe the team was prepared, but just not yet ready.

Tend to agree WYL. It was a combination of giving away silly & unnecessary free kicks and Carlton taking full advantage. The lead was blown out quickly. In effect that can "add" and "erode" confidence quickly. Poor disposal doesn't help either, but that can be put down to pressure being applied by the oppostion courtesy of confidence gained.

From then on, it was catch up and much disappointment.

On that, how dumb was it of Betts to 'console' Davey? So dumb that it took that unhinged lunatic Mitch Robinson to tell him to pull his head in. I'd have been spewing if the roles at been reversed.

Agree. Particularly your description of Robinson.