But who other than the players who train and play with them day in, day out could possibly know more about whether these guys are good motivators, communicators, organisers or how inspirational they are?

If these aren't the guys who feel they are being lead by example, then who could know better?

I don't understand how anybody on this forum, or anybody at all outside of the players within the Club, could possibly have any real perspective on which players are really leading day in, day out??

True, but this discussion is purely based on the perceptions of a supporter, otherwise there is no point having the discussion.

(I definitely do not presume to know more than the football department)

And once again, just because the other players elected him as one the best leaders at the club does not make him a good leader.

We have great potential for leadership amongst our very young players, but our older or middle-tier players are mostly found wanting in this regard.

Its a moot point anyway - I won't concede.

And even if Schwab himself were to come on this thread and throw his support behind Green as a leader, I'd just say "well of course YOU'd say that."

This is a stalemate.

A player's leadership qualities is something I would just never speculate on, after all, I have absolutely zero evidence one way or the other with which to form an opinion.

Too often good play, good form and courage is mistaken for leadership, sure, on-field leadership is an element, but Keyser accurately identifies many of the qualities that make a leader but since we as supporters aren't present in circumstances when these behaviours are exhibited, what would we know?

I know the playing group spend a good deal of time learning about not only how to be leaders but also how to identify and promote leadership within the group so I take their judgements entirely to the exclusion of all others when considering who the leaders in our group are. There is also a mechanism which sees players removed from the leadership group as decided by the playing group if their standards slip. It really is a terrific system they have in place.

KS has moved into off field leadership aswell, but my concern is with onfield leadership.

And that is something I can judge.

I don't like pointers, do what you are telling others to do.

I don't like frontrunners. If you stay at the back of a pack (on the defensive side) it tells me that you are committed to running back if we don't get the ball, and being apart of the offense (as the ball is invariably taken out the back of a pack by a team so that they can then move forward).

I see alot of pointing and yelling from Green, Bruce, Moloney, Jamar, and Davey when things are not going our way, but not a great deal of action on what they are yelling to their younger teammates.

I also don't like the way Bruce handballs to less experienced players under more pressure to deliver a kick he should take the responsibility for.

If you think that your left over 30m with little pressure is less a chance of helping your team than Jones or Trengove with 4 players near them, then it is time to hang up the boots, Cameron.

I also don't like the way Bruce handballs to less experienced players under more pressure to deliver a kick he should take the responsibility for.

If you think that your left over 30m with little pressure is less a chance of helping your team than Jones or Trengove with 4 players near them, then it is time to hang up the boots, Cameron.

It's not only less experienced players that get sold down the river by Bruce. It's anyone who's there. Too often he runs into trouble and instead of doing something himself he shirks the problem by handpassing to someone who's not in the right spot, or flat footed. That, and his tendency to stuff his ball drop up which results in terrible kicking, is what is making Bruce less and less of a good player.

MASSIVE BUMP

The recriminations that we went through after the West Coast loss at home last year that everyone has forgotten.

We have a long way to go, and I hope we don't have a game where we get outscored 5 goals 10 behinds to 1 goal 5 behinds in the second half at our home ground by the eventual wooden spooners.

Just a reminder that 2010 was not the smooth sailing after the Hawks game that many think it was...

Wet Coke are our bogey side, have been as long as I can remember =(

MASSIVE BUMP

The recriminations that we went through after the West Coast loss at home last year that everyone has forgotten.

We have a long way to go, and I hope we don't have a game where we get outscored 5 goals 10 behinds to 1 goal 5 behinds in the second half at our home ground by the eventual wooden spooners.

Just a reminder that 2010 was not the smooth sailing after the Hawks game that many think it was...

RPFC, I hope you are not going to make a habit of digging up dead threads, very passe

I'll excuse this one resurrection as it is Easter after all

RPFC, I hope you are not going to make a habit of digging up dead threads, very passe

I'll excuse this one resurrection as it is Easter after all

God bless you, my friend.

RPFC, I hope you are not going to make a habit of digging up dead threads, very passe

I'll excuse this one resurrection as it is Easter after all

If you don't remember the past...

RPFC, I hope you are not going to make a habit of digging up dead threads, very passe

I'll excuse this one resurrection as it is Easter after all

And that's a clever line...

Well done.

Wet Coke are our bogey side, have been as long as I can remember =(

The Hawks are our only bogy side. We've played many a good game against West Coast, right from the start of their AFL inception.

If you don't remember the past...

all the past way back to 1965 I am definitely trying NOT to remember