"And he has more potential than NicNat"

Now Im all for patience and reserving judgment on jack for at least a couple years or 30 games, but to say he has more potential than NicNat is ridiculous. NicNat is revolutionising the sport and he hasnt even played 15 games yet! Its no slight on watts whatsoever but we got the first pick wrong. No big deal, because Watts should be a very good player, but we definitely got it wrong.

"Definitely got it wrong"......a sweeping statement, of course NicNat has now had the benefit of nearly two full preseasons didn't have to reloacte over 3000km from home environment to continue to play footy, has a really good ruckman (nearly no 1) to learn his craft from and is away from the daily intrusive over analytical media we have here.....of course Jack Watts has had it really easy.......in comparison.....double sigh.....the reason Jack hasn't played a senior game yet is that he hasn't quite mastered the walking on water bit yet.

Before he gets a game with the demons, he MUST dominate a game with the scorpions. 20 odd possesions is not enough, he must learn how to take a game by the scruff of the neck and impose his dominance. Skill is not enough, he must develop character. Demon character. Right now, he is just another draft pick that needs to prove himself. A couple of BOG's would do the trick. He is still a kid tho.

So it has nothing at all to do with the cautious approach by the footy department given his recovery from an injury sustained during the pre-season which pulled back his preparation and programme, being 18 years of age and all....

That's right.

As part of his punishment for not having the correct attitude was forced to sit out training for weeks on end and feign injury, until his attitude improved and he was allowed to resume via the VFL.

He also has developed his physique so that he closely resembles Jamar, but the club has been using smoke & mirrors to make him look like a skinny teenager until his attitude is where it should be.

"And he has more potential than NicNat"

Now Im all for patience and reserving judgment on jack for at least a couple years or 30 games, but to say he has more potential than NicNat is ridiculous. NicNat is revolutionising the sport and he hasnt even played 15 games yet! Its no slight on watts whatsoever but we got the first pick wrong. No big deal, because Watts should be a very good player, but we definitely got it wrong.

Premature call. You need the AMI.

How on earth would you know that ?

One's playing footy and one isn't.

One is more advanced at this stage physically having played 15 games. The other is developing slowly (3 games) and is young (virtually first season this year).

I'd assess them in 4-5 years time myself. Not when they've just finished sucking lolly pops.

As exciting as Nik Nat is at this early stage, I'd also ignore comments on Watts until he establishes himself at the highest level.

edit:

As for "reserving judgement" and having "patience" for a couple of years and/or 30-odd games - as you have said.....you're additional comments in your post simply don't add up with this; hence ridiculous judgement on your part at this point in time.

Riewoldt spent a large part of his first year injured, then came out and won the rising star and St Kilda best and fairest in the next. I agree that Watts needs time, but Riewoldt is not a good example.

Did Watts not break his thumb and have various other soft tissue injuries ???? sounds similar to me!

Before he gets a game with the demons, he MUST dominate a game with the scorpions. 20 odd possesions is not enough, he must learn how to take a game by the scruff of the neck and impose his dominance. Skill is not enough, he must develop character. Demon character. Right now, he is just another draft pick that needs to prove himself. A couple of BOG's would do the trick. He is still a kid tho.

how often have Scully and Trengove dominated VFL matches?

Or, for that matter, Ablett, Judd or Hodge? Gibbs or Cooney?

We often give big men a pass mark in spite of an average performance because the delivery wasn't up to scratch -- what makes you think he'll get silver service in the VFL..?

That post doesn't add up for me.

Did Watts not break his thumb and have various other soft tissue injuries ???? sounds similar to me!

The point was that Reiwoldt got best and fairest in his second year, hardly a slow start. Nothing to do with Watts development, and I didn't expect him to be playing at b&f level second year in, just correcting a statment on Reiwoldt.

how often have Scully and Trengove dominated VFL matches?

Or, for that matter, Ablett, Judd or Hodge? Gibbs or Cooney?

We often give big men a pass mark in spite of an average performance because the delivery wasn't up to scratch -- what makes you think he'll get silver service in the VFL..?

That post doesn't add up for me.

me either

here's three names that didn't dominate at VFL level: Grimes, Jurrah, Bail

how often have Scully and Trengove dominated VFL matches?

Or, for that matter, Ablett, Judd or Hodge? Gibbs or Cooney?

We often give big men a pass mark in spite of an average performance because the delivery wasn't up to scratch -- what makes you think he'll get silver service in the VFL..?

That post doesn't add up for me.

Why isnt Cheney getting a game, he is In the best players regularily. Scully and Trengove played very well in the practice matches and deserved their spot, so their was no need for VFL. If we allow Watts to keep thinking he is special, he will become soft. We must treat him like everyone else, and that means promotion to the demons is based on ripper performances at Casey. How would Cheney, Johnston, strauss, Jetta and co feel if they are performing well and watts just gets a walk up start. He is just a kid like all our other draftees. He must earn his spot by dominating the two's.

"Definitely got it wrong"......a sweeping statement, of course NicNat has now had the benefit of nearly two full preseasons didn't have to reloacte over 3000km from home environment to continue to play footy, has a really good ruckman (nearly no 1) to learn his craft from and is away from the daily intrusive over analytical media we have here.....of course Jack Watts has had it really easy.......in comparison.....double sigh.....the reason Jack hasn't played a senior game yet is that he hasn't quite mastered the walking on water bit yet.

"Premature call. You need the AMI.

How on earth would you know that ? "

On that logic no one really knows anything - for all we know daniel bell COULD come back form his injury and win a brownlow..

As I said, its no big deal because he should become a very good player - he might even become elite, but you dont need to have a half a footy brain to realise NicNat is going to be one the most revolutionary athletes australian sport has ever seen. Have any of you guys seen the kid play even for 5 minutes?? Ive never seen anything like it - its awe inspiring.

Watts would have to end up being the most dominant key position player ever to play the game for us to say that we made the right decision in picking him first, because NicNat is almost assured of being the best big man ever to play, injuries permitting. Could you imagine him palming it down to scully, trengove etc for the next 10 years???? Good god..

Hope he proves me wrong, but I dont think its possible. The odds are too high - he'd have to be amazing in every sense of the word to end the debate over whether we got it right. Ah well

Someone that I work with is very close to the Watts family and the real reason Jack has not appeared in the seniors side yet (which I think has already been said here) is that his attitude to his footy. The club is not happy with this and that's why he has to prove himself at VFL level before he can get a call up.

Surprised this post hasn't got more attention.. a couple of you have defensively slagged it but it is not a common occurrence for someone who is a Melbourne supporter to just make this kind of comment up for fun. Can you elaborate please 'dees'?

This is what everyone said about Jared Brennan when he started out.

NicNat is very exciting, but he's no superstar yet.

"And he has more potential than NicNat"

Now Im all for patience and reserving judgment on jack for at least a couple years or 30 games, but to say he has more potential than NicNat is ridiculous. NicNat is revolutionising the sport and he hasnt even played 15 games yet! Its no slight on watts whatsoever but we got the first pick wrong. No big deal, because Watts should be a very good player, but we definitely got it wrong.

Benny the jury is still out and will be for at least 4-5 years as to who will be the better pick. Very harsh to say that we DEFINITELY got it wrong. If we had to take the choice today between Watts and NicNat, I'd be very confident the MFC would still take Watts over NicNat.

Why? Because of the obvious, we're in desperate need of a KPF who can tear a game apart and someone that we can build our forward structure around. In this era of modern football where the ball movement and speed of the game is ever increasing, we need a mobile tall target with the athletic abilities to back up his football abilities. Watts has these in spades. He is ridiculously mobile and quick for a KPF, and I feel that part of his development playing across the wing and HFF in the VFL is designed to adapt to the style in a similar manner to Riewolt, Brown and Hall (when he was at the Swans) as a mobile target who can push up to play on the wings.

In the event that we had of drafted NicNat we would not have seen Jamar display the form we currently are, who is thriving on the opportunity to ruck it ALONE. Further we would have failed to take arguably the best KPF during the last 2 years, when it's clear to blind freddy that's what we so desperately need.

On a side note, was at the Adelaide game with a good mate of mine (who is a Melb based recruiter for the Crows) who said the Crows rated Watts as the best young KPF they had seen in the past 4 years, and that despite NicNat's form they would still take Watts over NicNat without any hesitation/

By way of comparison Nick Riewoldt - 2000 draft debuts in 2001 and achieves his breakout season in 2004.

I dont know what he was doing in 2001, 2002 and 2003 but obviously he hadnt achieved his potential. It will take Jack some time for him to do the same - dont expect it over night. Remember the magic 50 game mark.

Keep in mind his body type. He is 196 cms and 83 kg according to the club web site (he might be a few kgs more I figure becuase it doesnt get updated much) by way of comparison he is roughly the same weight as Nathan Jones and 16cms taller! He is underweight by the average of all AFL players by 5 kg.

If you try and bulk up before your skeleton is itself properly developed (he is probably still growing) you start pulling muscles and buggering your back which is what I understand has caused him some issues.

I dont mind if he runs around on the wing or at Casey on the wing for some time if he develops his skills, his strength, his self belief and not incidentally if that is the best team thing to win some games. Casey might just have some say in how our players are deployed I suspect.

NicNat didn't want to come to Melbourne.

He has been quoted in numerous articles over the past year saying he is very happy to stay in Perth and it would have been very hard to come east...etc.

It's a situation that i'm thankful we have avoided.

Gold Coast or West Coast would have bust the doors down at the end of 2010/2011 to get him out of our guernsey.

And they would have done it to.

And we would have got bugger all in return.

By way of comparison Nick Riewoldt - 2000 draft debuts in 2001 and achieves his breakout season in 2004.

I dont know what he was doing in 2001, 2002 and 2003 but obviously he hadnt achieved his potential. It will take Jack some time for him to do the same - dont expect it over night. Remember the magic 50 game mark.

Played 6 games in his first year due to injuries.

In his second year, 2002, Riewoldt played 22 games, took 178 marks, polled 11 brownlow votes, won the rising star award and won St Kilda Best and Fairest, and kicked 6 goals against the Dees in round 22.

I don't expect Watts to do this in his second year, but Riewoldt developed a lot quicker than people remember.

Why isnt Cheney getting a game, he is In the best players regularily. Scully and Trengove played very well in the practice matches and deserved their spot, so their was no need for VFL. If we allow Watts to keep thinking he is special, he will become soft. We must treat him like everyone else, and that means promotion to the demons is based on ripper performances at Casey. How would Cheney, Johnston, strauss, Jetta and co feel if they are performing well and watts just gets a walk up start. He is just a kid like all our other draftees. He must earn his spot by dominating the two's.

I don't care if he dominates.

If he displays the right attitude and goes after the hard ball and does what's asked of him, then give him a game.

Only then.

Dominating games is irrelevant to him earning a spot.

When comparing Watts with Riewoldt, which is perfectly reasonable as they are both #1 pick, CHFs with similar body types, I would suggest lining up Nick's 2nd year Rising Star and 3rd year B&F efforts with whatever we see Jack do in his 3rd & 4th years.

Nick wasn't a 17 year old schoolboy in his first year, the comparison should be adjusted by one year for accuracy in measuring progression.

I don't care if he dominates.

If he displays the right attitude and goes after the hard ball and does what's asked of him, then give him a game.

Only then.

Dominating games is irrelevant to him earning a spot.

Why is he more speacial than the rest?

Is he a god?

Don't believe the hype, he is just like everyone else. No more special than the other boys. Get that into your heads!

When comparing Watts with Riewoldt, which is perfectly reasonable as they are both #1 pick, CHFs with similar body types, I would suggest lining up Nick's 2nd year Rising Star and 3rd year B&F efforts with whatever we see Jack do in his 3rd & 4th years.

Nick wasn't a 17 year old schoolboy in his first year, the comparison should be adjusted by one year for accuracy in measuring progression.

B&F in his second year.

Just clearing up some incorrect memories about his development, doesn't have anything to do with Watts.

Benny the jury is still out and will be for at least 4-5 years as to who will be the better pick. Very harsh to say that we DEFINITELY got it wrong. If we had to take the choice today between Watts and NicNat, I'd be very confident the MFC would still take Watts over NicNat.

Why? Because of the obvious, we're in desperate need of a KPF who can tear a game apart and someone that we can build our forward structure around. In this era of modern football where the ball movement and speed of the game is ever increasing, we need a mobile tall target with the athletic abilities to back up his football abilities. Watts has these in spades. He is ridiculously mobile and quick for a KPF, and I feel that part of his development playing across the wing and HFF in the VFL is designed to adapt to the style in a similar manner to Riewolt, Brown and Hall (when he was at the Swans) as a mobile target who can push up to play on the wings.

In the event that we had of drafted NicNat we would not have seen Jamar display the form we currently are, who is thriving on the opportunity to ruck it ALONE. Further we would have failed to take arguably the best KPF during the last 2 years, when it's clear to blind freddy that's what we so desperately need.

On a side note, was at the Adelaide game with a good mate of mine (who is a Melb based recruiter for the Crows) who said the Crows rated Watts as the best young KPF they had seen in the past 4 years, and that despite NicNat's form they would still take Watts over NicNat without any hesitation/

Nice post. I disagree that the MFC would still take watts over nicnat, but you make a lot of valid points about our needs and not seeing the best of jamar.

And for all you sooks who whinge about making comparisons and judgment calls too early ie recent poster who says "STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS CRAP" - comparing players and making judgment calls is the right of any supporter and I must admit I have personally enjoyed some vigorous watts/naitinui debates over a few beers with mates in the past few months. Its good fun to speculate, and even more fun to make sweeping unqualified statements. Half the fun is getting proven wrong, so calm down and either join in or keep quiet.

Why is he more speacial than the rest?

Is he a god?

Don't believe the hype, he is just like everyone else. No more special than the other boys. Get that into your heads!

I don't think you understand - who else has been required to "dominate" to get a game at senior level.

I'd say no one, but certainly not anyone competing for the spot he'd play in the team.

I'm not saying he can put out sub-standard performances and get in, nobody can do that.

But I'm sure Strauss, Bail, Maric, Bennell, Jetta, Scully, Trengove and Grimes have not consistently dominated at VFL before they were given games.

You seem to have raised the bar for Watts to reach.

I want him playing at least 4 or 5 VFL games before he steps up again, but I don't see a need for him to "dominate".

As long as he shows the desire and the willingness to do the hard things in footy, puts his head over the pill and shows some reasonable form, then I'm happy for him to be promoted.

I don't expect Watts to do this in his second year, but Riewoldt developed a lot quicker than people remember.

Just to correct, Watts is effectively in his first year, he's basically in the same age group as Scully etc.. The second year you speak of ... well, that would be 2011. If you want to compare Jack to Riewoldt based on age, then you would be looking across the 2011-2012 seasons.

My take on it, FWIW, is that we took Jack because out of he and NN, Jack was the one more likely to become a future Melbourne captain. We have had a chronic lack of leadership in the past few years, on-field and off, and my guess it that they thought that Jack seemed the more likely candidate.

There are no crystal balls, and even if NN turns out to be the greatest player the world has ever seen, and Jack becomes another Travis J, it still doesn't mean the footy department got it wrong.

Please Please Please Please...,Please, pLEASE...paaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllleaaaaaaasssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!

STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS FU..KIN CRAP!!!!!!!!!

There is literally no use speculating aout whether Jack is or is not going to be the next best thing and a great KPF until he is ready to play senior football and we have seen him play at least half a season. Trust that the club knows what tehy are doing and trust that they are 'breaking him in'.

This shite is dead set rediculous. He wasn't looked at by every scout in the AFL as at least top 1 or 2 pick because he couldn't play.

We all know f... All about this kids abilities.

Time Will Tell

Leave the kid ALONE !!!!!!

+1

Just to correct, Watts is effectively in his first year, he's basically in the same age group as Scully etc.. The second year you speak of ... well, that would be 2011. If you want to compare Jack to Riewoldt based on age, then you would be looking across the 2011-2012 seasons.

.

No, Jack is in his second year, so no need for a correction. He is in his first real year of develpoment, but it is his second year.

And for the third time, I have not made a comparison, just cleared up some facts about Riewoldt