The guy cannot occupy a place in our 22 unless we have a dozen+ players injured.

in the next few years anyone on the list ts going to look like a gun forward, with the way scully, jack t, jarra, strauss,and co are going to deliver it into the forward 50

Unfortunately for PJ ( and us as a result ) he is one of a number of NQR's at the club currently who , should they not find : another yard of pace/ another foot of leap/ another 5kg of body or simply like the Lion the bravery to use what they have that they will fall off the ledge come end of season 2010.

Am disappointed with PJ.. but hes not alone ( nor am I )

i think you might find that PJ is one of the fastest at the dees

I know how many don't rate Johnson on this forum but consider that PJ:

1: CAN take a pack mark;

2: IS a fine kick;

3: HAS the body to bust packs in the air and on the ground to create opportunities for small forwards.

With Wona as a crumbing forward in one pocket, and Jurrah as a leading forward from the other pocket, and with some mix of Bate/Watts/Sylvia/Green at half forward we should try to see if Johnson can cause some uncertainty in the forward 50.

I am assuming Miller contineus to play his natural game pushing upfield and giving Bate/Jurrah and Watts some space to work.

One issue is whether PJ can develop some consistency. Another is whether he can get to enough contests to have an impact.

But I still think it's time to settle Johnson and persist with him for five or six weeks at FF with Jamar working the rucks except in the forward 50.

where u going with this

i think you might find that PJ is one of the fastest at the dees

Well that changes everything then

When his contract is up we shall see how much

My bet is GAWN

And he wont be the only one

i think you might find that PJ is one of the fastest at the dees

I think bb was giving reasons for some players being on the fringe, rather than talking about PJ in particular.

I know how many don't rate Johnson on this forum but consider that PJ:

1: CAN take a pack mark;

2: IS a fine kick;

3: HAS the body to bust packs in the air and on the ground to create opportunities for small forwards.

Gee, I thought the same about Jeff White when the ruck rule cruelled his run and leap. But he never seemed to make the transition. Had ALL the attributes. And we've seen what happened - become adaptable or become de-listed.

By the way PJ's kicking for goal is not good.

Gee, I thought the same about Jeff White when the ruck rule cruelled his run and leap. But he never seemed to make the transition. Had ALL the attributes. And we've seen what happened - become adaptable or become de-listed.

By the way PJ's kicking for goal is not good.

White never played body on body. He did not have a clue where to move in the forward line and was not a noted or accurate kick for goal over the course of his career.

At least he could ruck and was a very good ruckman until the rules changed in 2005.

PJ's kicking for goal and around the ground is nothing special. Too many people confuse his good kicking style without considering the end result which is often accompanied by questionable decision making.

Maybe PJ could become a 200cm rover?

I think there is some potential for PJ to play FF. Whilst he has spent some time forward he has never been allowed to settle. The longest consecutive amount time he has played FF is a quarter and given the number of times we notoriously get the ball inside 50 he's had few opportunities.

What I have noticed however, is that he leads well, his timing is good and the positioning of his leads are fine. He plays the position like he knows what he needs to do - present. And he is quick off the mark.

Steph Martin has showed some promise down forward but he just hasn't got the understanding of the position (atm) that PJ has.

I agree PJ is at best a back up ruckman. I agree he can't take a pack mark and I agree that his field kicking has been poor although his goal kicking is a little better.

Give him a few full games at full forward and see how he goes. Jurrah can play the "Robbo" role and PJ can be the focal point. At the very least having such a mountain of a man up forward gets the opposition thinking about match ups and takes some of the focus away from Jurrah (which will inevitably come).

I think there is some potential for PJ to play FF. Whilst he has spent some time forward he has never been allowed to settle. The longest consecutive amount time he has played FF is a quarter and given the number of times we notoriously get the ball inside 50 he's had few opportunities.

What I have noticed however, is that he leads well, his timing is good and the positioning of his leads are fine. He plays the position like he knows what he needs to do - present. And he is quick off the mark.

Steph Martin has showed some promise down forward but he just hasn't got the understanding of the position (atm) that PJ has.

I agree PJ is at best a back up ruckman. I agree he can't take a pack mark and I agree that his field kicking has been poor although his goal kicking is a little better.

Give him a few full games at full forward and see how he goes. Jurrah can play the "Robbo" role and PJ can be the focal point. At the very least having such a mountain of a man up forward gets the opposition thinking about match ups and takes some of the focus away from Jurrah (which will inevitably come).

Unfortunately for us though, PJ's best is WAY off what we need. At least Stef is unpredictable. Hell, not even our players have any idea what he's going to do; hence him cleaning them up a hell of a lot, lol

I agree PJ is at best a back up ruckman. I agree he can't take a pack mark and I agree that his field kicking has been poor although his goal kicking is a little better.

Rather damning assessment then as an AFL footballer

Give him a few full games at full forward and see how he goes. Jurrah can play the "Robbo" role and PJ can be the focal point. At the very least having such a mountain of a man up forward gets the opposition thinking about match ups and takes some of the focus away from Jurrah (which will inevitably come).

PJ has been given 60 games and more chances than North Korea to show some upside. MFC know full well what they get with PJ. So do oppositions who know PJ is a rover masquerading in a big body so no one is fooled. And the last thing I want is Jurrah or any footballer doing is a "Robbo". Jurrah is better than that. I rather have serious options up forward rather than a third goalpost.

I agree PJ is at best a back up ruckman.

...and he doesn't have any other strings to his bow, so he's not good enough for a decent 22.

I agree he can't take a pack mark and I agree that his field kicking has been poor although his goal kicking is a little better.

IMO it's the opposite way around. His field kicking is actually pretty nice, but he hasn't been able to convert when he's had goal-kicking changes.

Steph Martin has showed some promise down forward but he just hasn't got the understanding of the position (atm) that PJ has.

What understanding?

I don't think either of them are particularly suited to FF. But if I had to pick one, it would be Martin.

I agree PJ is at best a back up ruckman. I agree he can't take a pack mark and I agree that his field kicking has been poor although his goal kicking is a little better.

If he's 'at best' a back up ruckman, why should we waste our time putting him at FF?

As Rogue said, his goal kicking is crap. Field kicking is OK, but decision making makes it look worse. Marking is poor.

At the very least having such a mountain of a man up forward gets the opposition thinking about match ups and takes some of the focus away from Jurrah (which will inevitably come).

You're right in that we do need to ensure Jurrah doesn't become opposition defences' focal point, but PJ's not the man to help there. After 1 or 2 games, teams will come to realise that PJ is useless as a forward.

PJ has been given 60 games and more chances than North Korea to show some upside. MFC know full well what they get with PJ. So do oppositions who know PJ is a rover masquerading in a big body so no one is fooled. And the last thing I want is Jurrah or any footballer doing is a "Robbo". Jurrah is better than that. I rather have serious options up forward rather than a third goalpost.

And he has shown some upside - it hasn't all been bad news. He did stand up during the year (for a couple of games anyway) when all our other ruckman were down - we soon forget. He has shown glimpses of form around the ground (a great run down and tackle) - we soon forget. He has kicked a few goals (a beauty on a bleak night at the MCG against Geelong) - we soon forget.

He is 25 and has played 60 games and the next 3 or 4 years will be his best. All I am saying is that he struggles as a ruckman (nothwithstanding the odd good performance) but he knows how to play FF and would be a distraction for the opposition due to his size, his leading and mark capabilities.

Also I said that Jurrah could play the "Robbo" ROLE, ie not the key forward but one capable of taking a spectacular mark or kicking the unpredictable goal. There is no doubt Robbo did that for years and I fully expect Jurrah to do it as well and much much more for years to come.

And he has shown some upside - it hasn't all been bad news. He did stand up during the year (for a couple of games anyway) when all our other ruckman were down - we soon forget. He has shown glimpses of form around the ground (a great run down and tackle) - we soon forget. He has kicked a few goals (a beauty on a bleak night at the MCG against Geelong) - we soon forget.

At best he is adequate. His worst is terrible. His normal level is not good enough. He got a big chance to show himself as a ruckman and failed. Around the ground and up the backline he is timebomb with no accountability for opposing ruckman. He made no telling impression in any of the games. He kicked 6.6 in 18 games where he had ample game time. Nothing to crow about

He is 25 and has played 60 games and the next 3 or 4 years will be his best. All I am saying is that he struggles as a ruckman (nothwithstanding the odd good performance) but he knows how to play FF and would be a distraction for the opposition due to his size, his leading and mark capabilities.

Your timeline highlights a ruckman coming into his peak. Then you have noted a number of times he is not a ruckman or struggles to be one. See the problem. And in seven years of senior football has shown on evidence of being a FF. And opposition coaches know PJ is a trojan horse that does not hurt you with size or bulk. He is a flaky mark as well.

Also I said that Jurrah could play the "Robbo" ROLE, ie not the key forward but one capable of taking a spectacular mark or kicking the unpredictable goal. There is no doubt Robbo did that for years and I fully expect Jurrah to do it as well and much much more for years to come.

The last thing MFC need up forward is another showman like Robbo. The game is too demanding these days for a player to focus on MOTY and GOTY. Thankfully Jurrah is better than that. And if he cnat be a KPP with more team orientated instincts then his potential is wasted.

I expected criticism for starting this thread so congratulations all on sensible, well argued points of view. I still think PJ is worth persevering with and I am not alone which is a bit encouraging.

Rhino's point about a timeline showing a ruckman coming to his peak reminds me of Darren Jolly. It has taken him until his mid-late 20s to be a real impact player. Don't be fooled by the premiership medal he has - he was very much a minor, back up ruckman in the Swans' flag year and it is only the past couple of seasons where he has fired.

I reckon PJ is worth a real go with serious game time for five or six weeks before we decide to cut him adrift, and I hope he gets it.

Craig Cameron used to say that a problem with a few big blokes is that because they have always been big as kids, they have been taught not to over-muscle their mates and that can be a problem because as footballers they don't know how to use their weight. It's ingrained in them not to use their size to rough others up, and it can take a few years to get that out of them as footballers. If PJ started to use his body to bust up packs he really could have an impact.