But we're talking KPFs here.

Exactly, and one that's no certainty to be a gun at AFL level. And on a probability scale there are too many queries.

Exactly, and one that's no certainty to be a gun at AFL level. And on a probability scale there are too many queries.

Bang on.

Best available.

Which is not Butcher in my view.

Might as well just make that my signature.

Kosi was taken at pick 2 after Roo with Saints having picks 1&2. Took a while for him to come good as well.

Would people be happy If Butch taken as #2 had a career similar to Kosi's.?

Personally i'd like something more with a #2 pick. However you get good years and not so good years in the draft and you can't choose when you get the top 2 picks.

Too much of a risk. Pick 2 is pure gold and I don't want to risk it on a player that "at worst will be a good ruckman". At worst Trengove will be a 200 game A grade mid. There's time to draft/recruit a marking tall forward over the next few years. This club can't afford to keep drafting for 5 years down the track on 'potentially' good key forwards. We need to start winning in the midfield. And before anyone mentions Watts, he was a one off talent imo who had to be taken.

Jolly, Sandilands, Cox, Brogan = Rookie draft ruckman. We wont pick Butcher at 2. There are too many question marks.

That's way too early to call. I'd say that would be at the upper end of the spectrum, in terms of "best possible outcome". So you're willing to stake a claim that Trengove will not play under 200 games, and will not be a non-elite mid? Pretty rash, IMO.

I would say, at worst, Trengove will be on the fringes of the side for two years, then traded back to Adelaide.

Not only do good ruckmen often come out of the rookie draft, but a case in point would be Luenberger (serviceable as a back up so far) and Fraser (massively overrated) as ruckmen that haven't set the world on fire despite being picked high in the draft order.

But we're talking KPFs here.

Your point is well validated, however, Mitch Clark was drafted as a mid 1st round draft pick in the '07 draft. He is already a very good player and will only improve as he matures.

That's way too early to call. I'd say that would be at the upper end of the spectrum, in terms of "best possible outcome". So you're willing to stake a claim that Trengove will not play under 200 games, and will not be a non-elite mid? Pretty rash, IMO.

I would say, at worst, Trengove will be on the fringes of the side for two years, then traded back to Adelaide.

I would have thought that there are no guarantees with anything, so, assuming that I'm talking to fellow posters that don't need the bleeding obvious stated, I posted my opinion accordingly. It's an opinion based on seeing a player live and is expected to be judged on being an opinion, because clearly there's nothing else to go on, ergo "big call".

Have you seen him live ?

I thought not.

Edited August 26, 200915 yr by Hannibal

surely its time we got clever. Speculative picks are fine....just not at 2

Your point is well validated, however, Mitch Clark was drafted as a mid 1st round draft pick in the '07 draft. He is already a very good player and will only improve as he matures.

Drafted as a KPF I believe - he only has been forced into the ruck cos the Lions have Brown and Bradshaw.

Much like Paddy Ryder.

Very fortunate outcome borne of necessity.

I have serious doubts Butcher could effectively make the same sort of positional change.

Then again, I have serious doubts about him even managing to be a top-shelf KPF at AFL level.

I don't think he'll be much better than Newton.

Then again, I have serious doubts about him even managing to be a top-shelf KPF at AFL level.

I don't think he'll be much better than Newton.

Massive call Enforcer25.

Massive call Enforcer25.

I know.

I didn't quite say he'd be as bad as Newton, but i don't think he'll be what people are expecting (deludedly hoping)...

Maybe the phrase is "similarly disappointing".

He'd be perfect at Richmond

Massive call Enforcer25.

I'm with Enforcer... i'll go with traded at 22 tho

Massive call Enforcer25.

I'm better than Newton

I'm with Enforcer... i'll go with traded at 22 tho

Mind you, I'm just a keyboard hero throwing out an uneducated opinion with absolutely no accountability.

Grain of salt people.

But I just get this uneasy feeling about Butcher.

I'm going to have to eat an entire millinery when we go and draft him at pick 2 and then he becomes the next Wayne Carey...

There's a lot of rubbish in here. Depending on whether you are a Trengove fan or a Butcher fan, people either build Butcher up to be a god or cut him down to being a dud.

"I don't think he'll be much better than Newton" - you are kidding yourself. Butcher is a very, very talented player who has great speed, great size and amazing hands overhead - a genuine deep pack marking threat, which is a very rare commodity. He's being talked about as a top 5 selection, possibly top 2, for a reason. Because he's good.

He may not be exactly what you want, but that highlights tape doesn't do him justice as a prospect. As always the real answer lies somewhere in the middle.

As Hannibal says, Butcher is a far riskier pick than Trengove. Trengove is already performing very well at SANFL level and should be a good, solid long term AFL player. Butcher may end up being an exceptional player in a rare position, but he may also end up being a talent tease and a frustration.

If Bailey doesn't believe that another good, solid midfield type will get us much closer to a premiership, but that a pack marking forward is definitely required then we'll probably end up taking Butcher. Or maybe it will be the other way around.

Personally, a midfield with Scully and Trengove running through it is scary for our opponents - however I sure wouldn't want to be a defender when the ball came in long and quickly with Watts, Butcher and Jurrah lurking!! There are merits in both.

Thanks for your contribution Captain Obvious

Drafted as a KPF I believe - he only has been forced into the ruck cos the Lions have Brown and Bradshaw.

Much like Paddy Ryder.

Very fortunate outcome borne of necessity.

I have serious doubts Butcher could effectively make the same sort of positional change.

Then again, I have serious doubts about him even managing to be a top-shelf KPF at AFL level.

I don't think he'll be much better than Newton.

Butcher will be better than Newton, he is highly regarded.

Butcher is the best KPF this year, he is a worthy top 5 draft pick.

It's a fortunate position for the MFC, regardless of who they take.

Massive call Enforcer25.

Stupid call.

Edited August 27, 200915 yr by Carn dees

A little more swayed on Butcher after seeing this thread, the first video was nothing special but a few glimpses of something special in the second. The Mousey stats are fairly interesting as well. Still pulling for Trengove as #2 but definitely willing to back whatever way Melbourne go on this one.

A little more swayed on Butcher after seeing this thread, the first video was nothing special but a few glimpses of something special in the second. The Mousey stats are fairly interesting as well. Still pulling for Trengove as #2 but definitely willing to back whatever way Melbourne go on this one.

As will I.

Last year I truly believed we needed two big key forwards to build a premiership attack, so with Watts coming on board, Butcher seemed the obvious choice in this years draft to be JW's partner in crime.

But our biggest weakness is our lack of forward 50 entries. We do not give our forward line not only enough oppotunities (melbourne averages 46.8 per game compared to geelongs 55) but also low in quality.

Now, the 3 highest goal scoring sides Bulldogs (16gpg), Geelong (15.4) and Carlton (15.1) in 2009 all do so without 2 big key fowards. It is all based on quick, accurate disposal into the 50.

If you can hit a target laces out with the rules how they today, its unbeatable the majority of the time.

Butcher isn't going to be the solution imo.

Improving our side's midfield with high quality users of the footy (see recruitment of Blease, Strauss etc) but we need more...

Scully and whether it be Trengrove, Morabito at 2 would be the best way of doing that.

Take a forward prospect like Panos with Pick 18 because he can replace a wasteful Miller/Newton in the future.

A top quality midfield is crucial don't you think?

if he comes to melbourne...they'll give him #9 fo sho'

I saw Butcher play yesterday at Trevor Barker Oval for Gippsland i was really impressed. He crashed packs, took some really good contested marks and should have kicked more than 4 if not for errant kicking. i also noticed Jack Watts was watching the game. Perhaps the club sent him down there to have a look at Butch and see how the two of them would function if Butcher came to Melbourne.

I saw Butcher play yesterday at Trevor Barker Oval for Gippsland i was really impressed. He crashed packs, took some really good contested marks and should have kicked more than 4 if not for errant kicking. i also noticed Jack Watts was watching the game. Perhaps the club sent him down there to have a look at Butch and see how the two of them would function if Butcher came to Melbourne.

I saw a bit of the game as well, pretty impressive.

That's interesting about Jack Watts.....he was probably just watching a mate play, though. You can't read too much into it.

I could be wrong but are a lot of the question marks over Butcher the same ones that slipped Buddy Franklin from a top 2 pick down to number 5 ?

I could be wrong but are a lot of the question marks over Butcher the same ones that slipped Buddy Franklin from a top 2 pick down to number 5 ?

Yep Kicked another 4 goals today.

Hitting form at the right time.

I truly believe its out of him and Morabito for our second pick.

After todays saints game it just solidified my belief our current midfield is on the up and am happy with many of them, add scully and we are set i think.

Would rather the second pick on Butcher or Morabito. but yeah thats only my personal opinions so dont flame me

Cant wait for Draft Camp.

First week of TAC Cup finals next week i think i just read-

All games on at Visy Park and on Saturday its Dandy Vs Gippsland- Scully Vs Butcher Wish i lived in melbourne to go see the game! Whoever goes could you please try take some pics and give a brief report?