Geelong Win Hypothetical

[Hannabal 4]

You're not the only rocket scientist who knows this, this has never been in dispute from me. Try reading my posts. I keep them relatively short so it won't take long. I want Scully as well. I know he is currently the best available. What I don't know, and nobody does, is will he be the best in 4 years time. It is because of this point that I'm not prepared to say that we won't win a premeirship without him. That is the only point I was making. But feel free to read it how you please and keep banging your head

If we don't get Scully, we don't get a pp. So it's not just winning a premiership with him, it's with him and the other top 3 pick.

Within the industry it's considered Scully - daylight - everybody else.

Have you seen Scully play live ?

The following players are top 3 priority picks: Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Didak, Hodge, Ball, Judd, Cooney, Deledio, Roughead, and Griffen.

Talent identification these days is a far more exact science. There will be other players in the draft who will become very good, but some within the industry consider Scully the best prospect since Judd. Judd would have gone no.1 if it wasn't for his two shoulder reconstructions. Selwood was touted as the likely no.1 a year out of his draft before he did his knee and missed the championships, which is why he slid to 7.

I repeat, it's not just about getting Scully, but getting Scully and another top 3 pick. It's about getting two of the list mentioned above instead of one. Stars win premierships. We need to accumulate as many stars in our list of best 6. Presently we have none.

[45HG 1,539]

Not saying that it will be the case this draft H, but a few teams have benefitted even greater from their second pick in the top 5 than the extra pick before the draft.

The Hawks with Franklin for instance.

[Real Demon 232]

We've worked so hard to get ourselves into the position of earning that priority pick!

Why get a rush of blood now, and undo all that good work!

I don't care if we roll the top 7 teams over the next 7 weeks....................the priority pick was the goal set at the start of the season, so don't deviate from the plan!

Edited July 14, 2009 by Real Demon

[rusty_kingswood 0]

If we don't get Scully, we don't get a pp. So it's not just winning a premiership with him, it's with him and the other top 3 pick.

Within the industry it's considered Scully - daylight - everybody else.

Have you seen Scully play live ?

The following players are top 3 priority picks: Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Didak, Hodge, Ball, Judd, Cooney, Deledio, Roughead, and Griffen.

Talent identification these days is a far more exact science. There will be other players in the draft who will become very good, but some within the industry consider Scully the best prospect since Judd. Judd would have gone no.1 if it wasn't for his two shoulder reconstructions. Selwood was touted as the likely no.1 a year out of his draft before he did his knee and missed the championships, which is why he slid to 7.

I repeat, it's not just about getting Scully, but getting Scully and another top 3 pick. It's about getting two of the list mentioned above instead of one. Stars win premierships. We need to accumulate as many stars in our list of best 6.

Presently we have none.

You say that you are waisting your time, however you continue to enlighten us who clearly don't want a flag as much as you.

Do us all a favour and continue to beat your head against that wall won't you

[Hannabal 4]

you continue to enlighten us ...

No problem. I consider it a civic duty.

[Roost It 1,434]

No problem. I consider it a civic duty.

Go to bed you're starting, should I say continuing, to rant.

[rpfc 28,249]

You say that you are waisting your time, however you continue to enlighten us who clearly don't want a flag as much as you.

Do us all a favour and continue to beat your head against that wall won't you

H. can be patronising at the best of times but you have to admit, winning only 1 more game gives us a better chance of a flag than winning 2 more games.

H. wants to go to lengths to ensure we only 1 more win (and give the MFC the best chance for that flag), so do I, but I fear we won't. H. is slightly more optimistic the club will muddle through and do what it has to do.

I'm paraphrasing Homer Simpson here, but we have a crisi-tunity here and we need to make the most of it.

[Hannabal 4]

Go to bed you're starting, should I say continuing, to rant.

Have you seen Scully live ?

You may have missed this question in a previous post.

[Geddy Lee 582]

I would expect:

1. Geelong to smash us by A LOT.

2. DB to then drop certain players (Bate, Petterd) for other similar players with a propensity for not kicking goals (Miller, Newton).

3. Martin to play up forward a lot, Petterd (if he stays) to go down back, trials of Bell, Grimes and Jetta in the midfield. Robbo on the pine more. Sylvia off half-back.

4. This pattern to continue until the season is over and we have lost 6-7 games.

If circumstances like these do not eventuate, Geddy Lee starts to panic.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Not saying that it will be the case this draft H, but a few teams have benefitted even greater from their second pick in the top 5 than the extra pick before the draft.

The Hawks with Franklin for instance.

Geez. I'd take Roughy in a second.

For the remaining 7 rounds, all stops should be pulled out. Other clubs have done this and their supporters nd players have remained faithful...

Put McLean in surgery... though that might be hard seeing as he's played a couple of blinders. Play Watts and Juice. You can claim it's because you want to give the latter a final chance.

The problem in getting Scully is having too many players playing with their hearts. Dropping the likes of Jurrah, Petterd, Jones right now would be cruel and unnecessary punishment... but they're the ones who'll get us closer to winning, as their youthful exuberance will infect the rest of the list... Liam Jurrah could be the worst thing to ever happen to the club!!!

[H_T 3,043]

If the Dees lose to the Cats - which if you asked Sportsbet, it's an absolute Monty (dees $9.00 for win); Bailey would have to make changes where those players haven't performed. That is only fair. The media should acknowledge that as reasonable, it's not 'tanking'. But that's when Mfc should begin to be prudent at selection. As far as I'm concerned. Cheney, McKenzie, Bail, Newton, Valenti, PJ & Bell should all be given there 'chances' to further their football careers by playing at AFL level.

HT, I'd say us winning the past two is the reason for this sudden talk of tanking in the media as it has suddenly become an issue.

The MFC at 1-14 would be no cause to talk about tanking.

Agree.

The issue has already been front page on the online Age and Hun in regard to MFC. Bailey got grilled on Fox about it.

45HG is right.

Yeah, I agree. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I'm speaking in terms of in what will happen, not necessarily what has happened. Yes, the focus is on Melbourne because of winning it's last two.

If the Demons lose big to the Cats, and Bailey makes changes, my point is that the changes shouldn't be recognised as forms of list management (or as others like to call it 'tanking'). Even though I can see how it would be interpreted, but with such a list?

Incidentally, I think Fremantle has gotten off lightly and personally I'm p***ed off that there is all this talk regarding melbourne when Freo Shockers produce the most pathetic scoreline EVER in 1.7.13!

If the Dockers want to be considered with an ounce of respect in the football world, they should have sacked Harvey by Monday just gone.

PATHETIC! And the Press should have given it to them FRONT and BACK page of all papers!

Edited July 15, 2009 by High Tower

[45HG 1,539]

Geez. I'd take Roughy in a second.

Not really the point though.

I'm just saying that winning 4 or less does not merely mean getting pick one, it gives us the added bonus of an extra pick in the top 5 - this extra pick has given teams the likes of Franklin, Pendlebury, Kreuzer/Judd, Mclean, Pavlich and Koschitzke.

If the Demons lose big to the Cats, and Bailey makes changes, my point is that the changes shouldn't be recognised as forms of list management (or as others like to call it 'tanking'). Even though I can see how it would be interpreted, but with such a list?

Obviously it all depends what the changes are.

But if Davey, Moloney and Bruce are out with some mysterious injury, of course it will (and should) be viewed as "list management."

[H_T 3,043]

Obviously it all depends what the changes are.

But if Davey, Moloney and Bruce are out with some mysterious injury, of course it will (and should) be viewed as "list management."

fair enough. The likes of Freo & WCE should come under massive scrutiny & heat as far as I'm concerned.

[45HG 1,539]

Absolutely.

But naturally we won't hear much about it here in Melbourne as no one will be too fussed about teams out west. Similar to year's they (W.C.) are going well.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Incidentally, I think Fremantle has gotten off lightly and personally I'm p***ed off that there is all this talk regarding melbourne when Freo Shockers produce the most pathetic scoreline EVER in 1.7.13!

If the Dockers want to be considered with an ounce of respect in the football world, they should have sacked Harvey by Monday just gone.

PATHETIC! And the Press should have given it to them FRONT and BACK page of all papers!

Not really.

Freo were always seen as two key players Pavlich and Sandilands, a couple of good younger players (Hill and Palmer) and alot of dyfunctional aging crud ( Solomon, Tarrant, Headland). Pavlich and Sandilands are out so what happens?

And any Club that sacks a coach without a duly appointed caretaker and viable transition plan to find a replacement actually loses all respect. This process must be managed very carefully otherwise you look as stoopid as the Tigers.

[donny williams no 25 0]

It is not even almost then...we agree.

And we need Geelong to rebound hard on us and punish our % position.

There are too many options for the final ladder to count out Freo blithely and assume they will finish below us.

Well, picking up on the theme of another poster, what do you and Hannibal and all the other tankers, do for the next 7 weeks?. Surely you won't go to the footy! Indeed the MFC would prefer you not to I'm sure because there's nothing worse than Demon supporters barracking for the other side.

And before you disregard this, just think of the possibilities that this debate will produce a huge financial loss over the next 7 weeks. Why on earth will MFC supporters turn up if the club is hoping to lose?

I think Robbie Flower and Brian Dixon are right on the money--a club MUST be trying to win every time or its whole fabric can be destoyed. I'm not at all certain that Carlton are benefitting from their skulduggery, if indeed they engaged in it

[45HG 1,539]

Why does wanting the best for the club somehow mean you are no longer a supporter?

[old55 23,360]

Why does wanting the best for the club somehow mean you are no longer a supporter?

I wonder if there's any correlation between supporters:

- who want to win very game for the remainder of this year

- who are willing to tolerate more losses this year for #1 pick

and

- who like to kick long down the line to a contest

- who like a backwards switch

[Vipercrunch 2,820]

Two questions.

What will the reaction be if we win 5 games this year?

Why do some people think it is a bigger embarassment to NOT tank?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

These questions have been answered ad nauseam on this forum. Check the threads.

Why does wanting the best for the club somehow mean you are no longer a supporter?

It surely beggars belief.

Its a naive "higher moral" stance built on nothing more than fundamental ignorance

[Roost It 1,434]

Don't disagree with hannabal otherwise when you log on this might be waiting:

"Quit the childish stalking c.unt. It's pretty boring"

Edited July 15, 2009 by Roost It

[H_T 3,043]

Well, picking up on the theme of another poster, what do you and Hannibal and all the other tankers, do for the next 7 weeks?. Surely you won't go to the footy! Indeed the MFC would prefer you not to I'm sure because there's nothing worse than Demon supporters barracking for the other side.

And before you disregard this, just think of the possibilities that this debate will produce a huge financial loss over the next 7 weeks. Why on earth will MFC supporters turn up if the club is hoping to lose?

I think Robbie Flower and Brian Dixon are right on the money--a club MUST be trying to win every time or its whole fabric can be destoyed. I'm not at all certain that Carlton are benefitting from their skulduggery, if indeed they engaged in it

Two questions.

What will the reaction be if we win 5 games this year?

Why do some people think it is a bigger embarassment to NOT tank?

Tanking is a shocking word and no one here wants the team not to try. It hasn't got anything with the players not trying. What is being mooted is the club or FD managing the list and positions with our young players and determining how they best fit into the team by trying them in different positions and looking at promoting players from Casey to determine whether or not they are part of the future.

One question.

Picking up on the theme of a previous question which I and a couple of others have asked.

I'll ask it again. Have any of you guys seen T.Scully play live?

That's all I ask.

Edited July 15, 2009 by High Tower

[Hannabal 4]

Well, picking up on the theme of another poster, what do you and Hannibal and all the other tankers, do for the next 7 weeks?. Surely you won't go to the footy! Indeed the MFC would prefer you not to I'm sure because there's nothing worse than Demon supporters barracking for the other side.

And before you disregard this, just think of the possibilities that this debate will produce a huge financial loss over the next 7 weeks. Why on earth will MFC supporters turn up if the club is hoping to lose?

I think Robbie Flower and Brian Dixon are right on the money--a club MUST be trying to win every time or its whole fabric can be destoyed. I'm not at all certain that Carlton are benefitting from their skulduggery, if indeed they engaged in it

I will continue to go because I enjoy watching the development of the players. I expect them to be giving their all.

I won't wear any club paraphernalia as it would be hypocritical - I would usually just have a scarf - and didn't last Sunday. I also didn't sing the club theme song for the same reason.

And I won't barrack for the opposition. Although around a couple of mates we did joke a bit.

I see that you've quoted Flower and Dixon. What are your thoughts on Lyon and Schwarz who think that it's lunacy to win more than one more game ? As does Gerard Healy, but I know he's not popular on here.

As I may have stated earlier, I have no problem with any supporter that wants to win every game their club plays. It makes a lot of sense. Rightly, or wrongly, I see more long-term benefit if we don't. Once again, you disagree. No problem.

One hypothetical question to you, Don, and all the anti tankers. If we win a flag in 7 years time on the back of Scully and whomever ends up at pick 3, and it's conclusive that we wouldn't have won this flag without Scully, who by now is considered a superstar, would any 'list management' have been worth it ?

NB: some will say it's a silly question. Firstly, it's a question that is quite reasonable in content; and priority picks have already resulted in clubs winning flags, and secondly; answer it anyway. Afterall, it's a hypothetical.

[Vipercrunch 2,820]

HT - I've seen you ask that question alot, but I personally don't see why it is relevant. I have not seen him play live, but it is obvious you and many others have. He is obvioulsy very good, and will be a great assest to the club for a very long time, if we secure him. It seems the reason you ask is to justify resorting to any means to get him, which is where I and a few others disagree.

I think we will get him, but not out of design. I don't think we are good enough to win 2 more games. On top of that, DB has said the goal this year is to develop players with an eye for the future. I hope by this he means he will be doing everything he can to get this current list closer to a successful period. I also hope DB and the club view Priority Picks and early draft position as a bonus for those that need it, not an objective.

EDIT: What happens if we do all the list management, resting good players etc, etc and we still win 2 games? Giving that would be such a tragedy to so many here, who will you blame? The coach? The players? The "anti-tankers"?

Edited July 15, 2009 by S_T

[Trisul 664]

EDIT: What happens if we do all the list management, resting good players etc, etc and we still win 2 games? Giving that would be such a tragedy to so many here, who will you blame? The coach? The players? The "anti-tankers"?

The boogey.