Shouldnt be any debate at all - Scully and Trengove.

2 OUTSTANDING midfielders.

Weve got 1 key forward in Watts who should be a gem.

Geelong have 1 good, but not standout, key forward in Mooney. Hawkins adds nothing to their forward line and they would still be just as dominant if you swapped him for a gamble, lonergan, stokes etc.. They are also the highest scoring team in the league.

A midfield of scully, trengove, grimes, sylvia, morton, blease, davey, possibly bennell and strauss when theyre not in the backline (and throw moloney, mclean and jones in for reinforcement). This together with a solid backline which we look to be grooming = top 4 contender 2011 - 2014.

I don't think he's a lock just yet. Although he is favoured to if you read or listen to most commentators. Of late Trengove has made good progress according to some 'anonymous' recruiters quotes in papers.

How could Scully not be a lock in for No 1 pick?

Identified early as the best talent in the draft. Every State carnival side has targetted him and tagged and double tagged him and guess what he keeps getting 30 touches and consecutive BOGs or near BOGs. He is not only living up to the high and tough expectations. He is exceeding them. He is already touted as a ready made AFL footballer this year and not next year. He has not put a foot or hand wrong.

He is such a lock in on form to date that barring unusual events/injuries even the Blind Freddies here should be able to pick Scully is head and shoulders above any other player in the draft.

And while Trengove has made good progress at this point in time he is not in Scully's sphere or rating. Trengove is a worthy young talent by all reports but lets not ignore obvious. Trengove has done well in these championship but he would have to burn up the park to leap Scully.

And I would be very careful hinging your knowledge to anonymous recruiters quotes in the papers.

Its stocking filling hoopla to fill papers in the absence of tangible substantive press that grabs the attention of bored desperate posters.

Geelong have 1 good, but not standout, key forward in Mooney. Hawkins adds nothing to their forward line and they would still be just as dominant if you swapped him for a gamble, lonergan, stokes etc.. They are also the highest scoring team in the league.

*Cough*

Steve Johnson.

*Cough*

Steve Johnson.

I'd count Steve Johnson as a midfielder/flanker, not really a KPP

I'd count Steve Johnson as a midfielder/flanker, not really a KPP

The KPP is a misnomer and distraction to the issue of forward option

He plays forward more often than not. Geelong regular attack inside 50 through Johnson as a target. And comments that Geelong only has one target up forward manifestly overlooks the impact of Johnson up forward. And Johnson is definitely a marking target and play maker up forward.

It was a similar argument about Sydney when at its peak that the Swans only had one key forward in Hall. Overlooking the value of Michael O'Loughlin up forward.

If we had a Steve Johnson player up forward then I would agree there is scope to have Watts as the sole KPF going forward. However we dont and the argument that Watts sole KPF position would replicate Geelongs forward line is incorrect.

The KPP is a misnomer and distraction to the issue of forward option

He plays forward more often than not. Geelong regular attack inside 50 through Johnson as a target. And comments that Geelong only has one target up forward manifestly overlooks the impact of Johnson up forward. And Johnson is definitely a marking target and play maker up forward.

It was a similar argument about Sydney when at its peak that the Swans only had one key forward in Hall. Overlooking the value of Michael O'Loughlin up forward.

If we had a Steve Johnson player up forward then I would agree there is scope to have Watts as the sole KPF going forward. However we dont and the argument that Watts sole KPF position would replicate Geelongs forward line is incorrect.

Agree with all of that. With decent delivery Jurrah may well become that Johnson type play through player, I'm not for a moment suggesting he'd be the equal to Johnson. He clearly has the skills, the thought process' so I guess it is now a matter of consistancy and experience.

Having said that, with decent delivery, Matthew Bate will be a 40 goal a year forward plus what his goal assists tally.

Having read much of the debate surrounding what we do with this draft, it is clear that we need to target gun midfielders. With Scully and whomever is deemed as the next best midfielder it certainly bodes well when you add Sylvia, Moloney and McLean..... let alone Grimes, Blease and Strauss.

The forward line will no doubt include, Watts, Bate, Jurrah, Maric, Wonna, Sylvia (At times) and possibly Miller. With the influx of highly skilled midfielders it is feasible to expect a winning score could be kicked between the forwards and midfielders.

The forward line will no doubt include, Watts, Bate, Jurrah, Maric, Wonna, Sylvia (At times) and possibly Miller. With the influx of highly skilled midfielders it is feasible to expect a winning score could be kicked between the forwards and midfielders.

With good delivery that's a potent forward line, who knows what pick 18 will deliver. Will Martin play ruck or forward? Can Miller improve with better players around him? Our forward line will certainly improve with the delivery of scully, Trengove, Sylvia, Grimes and Morton, not to mention slipping Davey back to the forward line once our midfield improves and Bennel can play his backline roll.

The KPP is a misnomer and distraction to the issue of forward option

He plays forward more often than not. Geelong regular attack inside 50 through Johnson as a target. And comments that Geelong only has one target up forward manifestly overlooks the impact of Johnson up forward. And Johnson is definitely a marking target and play maker up forward.

It was a similar argument about Sydney when at its peak that the Swans only had one key forward in Hall. Overlooking the value of Michael O'Loughlin up forward.

If we had a Steve Johnson player up forward then I would agree there is scope to have Watts as the sole KPF going forward. However we dont and the argument that Watts sole KPF position would replicate Geelongs forward line is incorrect.

The point is we dont need another KPP forward - ie Butcher.

We should certainly take Scully and Trengove which will help our midfield.From what I have heard Butcher's attitude and ego are not quite right.

We should certainly take Scully and Trengove which will help our midfield.From what I have heard Butcher's attitude and ego are not quite right.

Whilst I have no real opinion as to who we take as yet, ego and attitude is not a huge part in what I look at. Franklin is apparently a nutcase, Gary Ablett Snr hardly ever trained, nor does Jnr (or does as little as possible). Sometimes its the flawed genius that becomes the superstar. I would definitley accept a headcase into the club if he was going to be a superstar.

Its obviously a fine line as if the attitude is too bad, then they wont become anything, but just saying that attitude shouldnt cloud the vision too much in my view.

If we had a Steve Johnson player up forward then I would agree there is scope to have Watts as the sole KPF going forward. However we dont and the argument that Watts sole KPF position would replicate Geelongs forward line is incorrect.

If they both develop as planned, a Watts-Jurrah combo is equal, or better than Geelong's Johnson-Mooney forward combo (because Watts should be much better than Mooney).

What we lack is the ability to win the ball and use it well when moving forward, so midfielders galore this draft hopefully!

If they both develop as planned, a Watts-Jurrah combo is equal, or better than Geelong's Johnson-Mooney forward combo (because Watts should be much better than Mooney).

What we lack is the ability to win the ball and use it well when moving forward, so midfielders galore this draft hopefully!

I think Bate will also continue to improve

If they both develop as planned, a Watts-Jurrah combo is equal, or better than Geelong's Johnson-Mooney forward combo (because Watts should be much better than Mooney).

He's certainly a far better kick... ALREADY!

Agree with all of that. With decent delivery Jurrah may well become that Johnson type play through player, I'm not for a moment suggesting he'd be the equal to Johnson. He clearly has the skills, the thought process' so I guess it is now a matter of consistancy and experience.

Having said that, with decent delivery, Matthew Bate will be a 40 goal a year forward plus what his goal assists tally.

I'd like to think we will have Watts and an array of skilled mobile marking types like Bate and Jurrah. If Jurrah develops like we hope he will be a hard match up because of his mix of skills. I hope Bate develops into that.

The point is we dont need another KPP forward - ie Butcher.

If Butcher was in the class of a Roughie or a Buddy we would be mugs not to consider him. However if we have the first two picks and those best two players are midfielders then take them.

The important issue in modern football is that you need to have a multitude of forward targets to provide diversity of inside 50 options. Its not a measure of whether they are a stereotyped KPP or not.

I'd like to think we will have Watts and an array of skilled mobile marking types like Bate and Jurrah. If Jurrah develops like we hope he will be a hard match up because of his mix of skills. I hope Bate develops into that.

If Butcher was in the class of a Roughie or a Buddy we would be mugs not to consider him. However if we have the first two picks and those best two players are midfielders then take them.

The important issue in modern football is that you need to have a multitude of forward targets to provide diversity of inside 50 options. Its not a measure of whether they are a stereotyped KPP or not.

At the moment I would hope the club are taking the 2 players most likely to become elite. If it's a KPP it's going to take longer. Just look at Riewoldt. Our forward line should develop ok. Our midfield is so bad it's ridiculous.

Threre is no choice: Scully and Butcher.

If the first game (NAB Cup) next year we named:

FB: Frawley Martin Bennell

HB: Garland Rivers Strauss

C: Morton Moloney© Davey

HF: Bate Watts Wonaeamirri

FF: Sylvia Jurrah Green

F: Jamar Grimes Jones

Int: Meesen(or Spencer) Scully Butcher Hughes

I would be a very happy member.

Threre is no choice: Scully and Butcher.

If the first game (NAB Cup) next year we named:

FB: Frawley Martin Bennell

HB: Garland Rivers Strauss

C: Morton Moloney© Davey

HF: Bate Watts Wonaeamirri

FF: Sylvia Jurrah Green

F: Jamar Grimes Jones

Int: Meesen(or Spencer) Scully Butcher Hughes

I would be a very happy member.

So far bucther doesnt convince me his worth pic 2. Im waiting to see trengove still.

Butcher has really dropped off the pace. 2 goals today but unsighted for a majority of the game...like Watts V Essendon. Like the look of Dustin Martin and Gary Rohan for Vic Country, Morabito hasn't impressed me. A bottom ager called Jack Darling for WA has Jonathan Brown written all over him, too bad he will be going very early next year to Gold Coast. Waiting on Trengove...

Butcher has really dropped off the pace. 2 goals today but unsighted for a majority of the game...like Watts V Essendon. Like the look of Dustin Martin and Gary Rohan for Vic Country, Morabito hasn't impressed me. A bottom ager called Jack Darling for WA has Jonathan Brown written all over him, too bad he will be going very early next year to Gold Coast. Waiting on Trengove...

Agree i on your observations there.

Morabito has the touch of the FIGJAM's, not sold on him

Butcher looked about half the player Vickery was last year, and he went at pick 7.

Jack Darlingwill be a future gun,and also hated as much as Lloyd the way he stages for free kicks.

I loved Rohans speed, as well as his chasing and gut running.

Martin just looked a class above, excellent on both sides of his body.

Yeh im not sold on morabito either, his a big kid but barely used it to advantage to crash packs take big marks etc, not worth pic2 and defo wont be around for a next pic, not sold on Butcher either had barely an impact, waiting to see how Panos trengove go. Also Dustin martin was impressive racked up heaps of ball and used very well, also lucas was one of the best.

Also looking forward to watching Scully!

Anyone who saw our side on Saturday night know that we need to go for 2 mids.

Who were the star KPFs you saw running around?

That said, there doesn't look to be any KPF putting their hand up for #2 atm.

I want two mids that canb come strait in and play. Stuff this development stuff, like what were doing on strauss etc.

No thanks. I don't care what our 2009 draftees are like next year, I care about how good they are at their peak.

No thanks. I don't care what our 2009 draftees are like next year, I care about how good they are at their peak.

Yer obviously you would want that, but how can u tell by drafting a skinny kid who need lots more development anythign can happen? it unpredictable.

Id rather be going for someone like Daniel Rich, Jack Ziebel, Marc Murphy etc.

Butcher may not be ready for a couple of years. Needs developing. But if the experts at the club rate him then he will be picked up at 2.

I think the club will go for Morabito at 2 as he is a ready made wing/mid and at 190cm and well built may develop into a Pavlich type of player.

Threre is no choice: Scully and Butcher.

If the first game (NAB Cup) next year we named:

FB: Frawley Martin Bennell

HB: Garland Rivers Strauss

C: Morton Moloney© Davey

HF: Bate Watts Wonaeamirri

FF: Sylvia Jurrah Green

F: Jamar Grimes Jones

Int: Meesen(or Spencer) Scully Butcher Hughes

I would be a very happy member.

We all know where you are coming from, but just because we all had these great white hopes of butcher turning into our big bustling full forward doesn't mean that will happen.

At picks 1 and 2, we should take the best available players (taking into account growth and development). If Butcher isn't considered best available, we don't want him.

BTW, your team could do with a few improvements

Warnock needs to be in that team, as does McLean (if he drops his weight and improves his speed during the holidays).

After watching todays games i want our picks to be as follows:

1. Tom Scully (of course)

2. Jack Trengove (didnt have a great day but could still see alot of class and skill in him today)

18. Jake Carlisle (From what i saw today is much more a complete player than Butcher and i hope we can get him at 18)

Pick ? Gary Rohan or Dustin Martin ( I dont know if they will still be available til our next pick but if they are we should grab either of them)

Pick ? This pick is tough but if christensen, collica, Sumnar, Wanganeen or Winmar are available definitely one of those boys would be great.

I would really love our first 3 picks to be scully, trengove and carlisle. Our team would start to come together nicely with those boys added to it.

Draft day cant come quick enough!!!!!!