If you were 193 cm, Einstein, you'd go top 7.

i would only take riewoldt, pavlich, scarlett and chad cornes with a top 2 pick

listing players 191/192cm tall just shows ur stupidity. At the end of the day, if ur around that dodgy height, u will either slide down the draft a few spots, a lot of spots or not get picked up at all.

170-179cm is a height that would be potentially on the too small side, 180-189cm is the ideal height for a midefielder and 190cm-192 is in between. 193-196cm is perfect for key position. 197-199 is also dodgy (not quite ruck and usually too slow for key position, ala kepler bradley) and 200+ is great for ruckmen.

Bate and Dunn is the exact reason u dont pick up players of that height. Half of the players you listed wont make it either so thanks for listing them for me.

Judge them on entire carrer. Thats the point of it. Lloyd has to be in yours ? great player.

geez, get this thru ur thick skull .ITS NOT ABOUT WHO IS IN THE AFL THAT IS 192CM...ITS ABOUT WHO IS NOT. I REPEAT IS NOT IN THE AFL.

There are so many 191cm-192cm players that are overlooked come draft day or majorly slide.

And whoever mentioned Dunn is silly. He is already good. He is just being played out of position. He is a natural 3rd tall that has PROVEN to kick goals at afl level. But if he was 195-196cm..then he would have been drafted top 5 in his draft no doubt

There are so many 191cm-192cm players that are overlooked come draft day or majorly slide.

Do you reckon it's because they might just be crap footballers?

Do you have statistics that show the percentage of 191-192cm players overlooked in the draft when compared to players in other height divisions?

It seems that for every player apparently overlooked because they were precisely 191cm or 192cm in the draft, there are plenty who were drafted and have gone on to become very good or even star players.

This thread is now so ridiculous I'm going to read it only when I need a laugh.

17%

who really cares though. I can guarantee you that we wont pick up morabito. A western australian that cant kick is the same reason we didnt pick up naitanui

Just quietly its rather presumptuous to afford all and any accolades or detractions purely on one facet..i.e height. Can only prove any accompanying rhetoric as one dimensional at est...and at worst ??...well....lol

You have to ask the question(s) as to what we need in the context of the next 3-4 years and are we attempting to draft a couple of ready ( or nearly ) mades or continue the farm and developing players.

Just exactly how many forwards..tall and crumbing do we need ? With likes of Watts and Jurrah supported by Maric and Wonna who else and in what capacity do we need ? The team isnt full by any means but it could start to get crwoded up there..!! The middle however needs serious overhaul if we are to step up. Forget what this and that player are..or supposedly at the club at present the simple reality is as a comined midfield we are well off the pace and if you dont think so you are either watching a completely different league or in need of a pharmacy !!

Rucking... well we may or may not be coverered by Meesen and Spencer... with Russian surpising as well. We can get forwrd power sorted if only proper and consistant delivery is created. Defence seems to be solidifying.

So Scully seems a monty...at the moment ut as others rightly suggest..where was Watts earlier in peoples sights last year ? uthcer may be handy but I have a feeling Predergast and co have some specific criteria .

quick edit:

Many a goal is now kicked by forward ranging midfielders. Its not all down to the forwards

Keep going as we are and we'll have 1,2 and probably 19 ( if another gets a 2nd round pp ) ..we may get a surprise at 35...if lucks a fortune.

so 1 and 2 must be used very wisely..its last gas for many miles for many years.

SO we ought to keep a good look at Morabito happening...but look at many.

Keep in mind If you got Butcher..whose possie does he take..repeat question for anyone who's a prospect.. and then see which positions are easiest to supplant..This then shapes the shopping list.

There are so many 191cm-192cm players that are overlooked come draft day or majorly slide.

And whoever mentioned Dunn is silly. He is already good. He is just being played out of position. He is a natural 3rd tall that has PROVEN to kick goals at afl level. But if he was 195-196cm..then he would have been drafted top 5 in his draft no doubt

Lynden Dunn

Height: 192cm

Games Played: 45

Goals: 32

Ave: 0.71 goals/game.

*source = Record.

17%

who really cares though. I can guarantee you that we wont pick up morabito. A western australian that cant kick is the same reason we didnt pick up naitanui

I have no issue if we don't pick up Morabito if he has disposal issues (never seen him play so cannot comment). I would however have an issue if we didn't pick up a player simply because we deemed that at 191cm he is just 2cm too short or too tall. Too tall for what? to be a good midfielder, or too short to be a good KPP?

Fevola and Goodes are just two players who have proven that height and talent are in no way genetically linked.

And whoever mentioned Dunn is silly. He is already good.

Well, that gave me a chuckle.

Well, that gave me a chuckle.

You can bet your bottom dollar, Freak provides the entertainment in spades.......

Lynden Dunn

Height: 192cm

Games Played: 45

Goals: 32

Ave: 0.71 goals/game.

*source = Record.

if you only counted his games played up forward he would be averaging close to 2 goals a game

Gee...this thread makes me laugh.

I know this bloke hasn't played a game yet. But there is a chance he could debut this week. The majority of Melbourne supporters cant wait for to see him in the red and blue. His name is Liam Jurrah.

Liam Jurrah

Number: 48

Height: 191

Weight: 81

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/players/play...78&typeid=2

Now, going by what freak says, he has a less chance of making it because he is in the "191-192cm" height range and in the "Lynden Dunn" mold. And if he was in the "194-195" category he would've been a top 5 draft pick?

Well IMHO that's absolute rubbish. The recruiting team picked Jurrah up NOT based on his height but on his football ability.

Im not going to get ahead of myself saying that Jurrah is going to be a great player but based on what we've seen so far he looks the goods.

Enforcer25 gave you a list of players in your "weird height range" that have proved to be very good players.

Matthew Scarlett

Nick Riewoldt

Sam Fisher

Chad Cornes

Matthew Lloyd

Ben Rutten

Matthew Pavlich

Jarryd Roughead

Scott Lucas

Nathan Bock

Fevola (191)

Goddard (191)

By the end of the day freak is right by saying that a lot of these players don't make it but there are plenty of players who become elite footballers. Morabito's bad kicking style can easily get fixed. As for his height....read what Dappa Dan has to say. I couldn't have put it better myself.

Your problem is that you get a big head of steam up as soon as you get an idea in your head. Usually it involves numbers, like possessions, heights, weights etc etc... And sometimes it involves what you "like" to see on the screen when a player is taking a kick.

The thing is, once you decide a layer has a fault, you write them off.

Morabito may fall into a weird non-category with his height, but you're not being realistic by calling it anything more than a "minor fault." Plenty of good players play and are around that height. Plenty of good players grow after being drafted.

I think i've justified my point.

Morabito's bad kicking style can easily get fixed.

That's a good post, but I don't agree with this.

This is the problem with arguing with Freak. Unlike Y_M, he actually comes up with some points that are as close to ironclad facts in the AFL as you can get. You know the old adages, By the end of the game the tall players don't get any shorter, you can't improve the umpiring, a bad kick will always be a bad kick etc etc

IMO, where he gets it wrong is his diagnosis. A badly shaped kick doesn't equate to low effectiveness. I reckon when a kid is 12 and learning about how to kick, teaching him a Strauss/Maric like ball-drop will probably yield results. But just because a young kid's mechanics don't grasp the orthodox technique doesn't mean a player is automatically a spud.

Bate and Frawley are good examples. They'll have good seasons and bad seasons, but both have shown a propensity to kick straighter than their technique seems to suggest. Bate has in his first few seasons shown, over and over, he has a booming kick. Likewise, Frawley's up and under "Stynes" style of kicking somehow gets the job done over and over. Bate is down on form, and playing a different position than before and now we point to his kicking action as being a suspect. On the flipside Frawley has more room and more help this season, as well as more responsibility and license to take the game on and run with it. Look at the results.

The thing about Morabito's kick is how lazy he is. And also the shape of ball movement. Yes he kicks it roughly in the direction of his team-mate... but not so much to his advantage. His ball drop and the contact with his boot is quite amazing. When I was about 4 I used to do the same thing and it missed my foot completely, over and over. There's bad looking kicks, and there's bad looking kicks...

Getting back to your point, yes, perhaps a fundamentally flawed action can be helped in the short term... but he's never going to be dominant by foot. If you're prepared for that, and believe you have enough good kicks, then he'd be a sensational addition. But again, Freak has it on the head... We won't get him for the same reason we didn't get Naita.

What we want is a Stuey Dew type kick... a guy that can put on weight, be lazy, and still seem to have an effect even with only 15 touches.

Seriously, I reckon Stuey Dew was kicking like that when his Mum squeezed him out of her womb. Just thought I'd leave you with that visual.

I actually agree, I think Morabito's kicking is way too much of a question mark for us to take him & I hope we don't.

I think MFC now has a mandate that any draft pick must at the very least have good foot skills.

From what I have seen of Morabito his kicking is very suspect, but I've also read a Jason McCartney scouting report that said he had great skills on both sides, so I'm willing to accept I could be wrong.

Essentially, I just thought there was no real standout after Scully and wanted to hear some balanced opinions, not arguments that players should be black-balled based on height.

Morabito just happened to be the young player that wowed me with his athleticism on this day.

Gee...this thread makes me laugh.

I know this bloke hasn't played a game yet. But there is a chance he could debut this week. The majority of Melbourne supporters cant wait for to see him in the red and blue. His name is Liam Jurrah.

Liam Jurrah

Number: 48

Height: 191

Weight: 81

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/players/play...78&typeid=2

Now, going by what freak says, he has a less chance of making it because he is in the "191-192cm" height range and in the "Lynden Dunn" mold. And if he was in the "194-195" category he would've been a top 5 draft pick?

Well IMHO that's absolute rubbish. The recruiting team picked Jurrah up NOT based on his height but on his football ability.

Im not going to get ahead of myself saying that Jurrah is going to be a great player but based on what we've seen so far he looks the goods.

Enforcer25 gave you a list of players in your "weird height range" that have proved to be very good players.

By the end of the day freak is right by saying that a lot of these players don't make it but there are plenty of players who become elite footballers. Morabito's bad kicking style can easily get fixed. As for his height....read what Dappa Dan has to say. I couldn't have put it better myself.

I think i've justified my point.

Good post. I agree with your view on Jurrah being picked up on his football ability, which is what I said for players around that height - 190-192cm.

I think we might have something special in Jurrah. But let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet.

Just quietly its rather presumptuous to afford all and any accolades or detractions purely on one facet..i.e height. Can only prove any accompanying rhetoric as one dimensional at est...and at worst ??...well....lol

You have to ask the question(s) as to what we need in the context of the next 3-4 years and are we attempting to draft a couple of ready ( or nearly ) mades or continue the farm and developing players.

Just exactly how many forwards..tall and crumbing do we need ? With likes of Watts and Jurrah supported by Maric and Wonna who else and in what capacity do we need ? The team isnt full by any means but it could start to get crwoded up there..!! The middle however needs serious overhaul if we are to step up. Forget what this and that player are..or supposedly at the club at present the simple reality is as a comined midfield we are well off the pace and if you dont think so you are either watching a completely different league or in need of a pharmacy !!

Rucking... well we may or may not be coverered by Meesen and Spencer... with Russian surpising as well. We can get forwrd power sorted if only proper and consistant delivery is created. Defence seems to be solidifying.

So Scully seems a monty...at the moment ut as others rightly suggest..where was Watts earlier in peoples sights last year ? uthcer may be handy but I have a feeling Predergast and co have some specific criteria .

quick edit:

Many a goal is now kicked by forward ranging midfielders. Its not all down to the forwards

Keep going as we are and we'll have 1,2 and probably 19 ( if another gets a 2nd round pp ) ..we may get a surprise at 35...if lucks a fortune.

so 1 and 2 must be used very wisely..its last gas for many miles for many years.

SO we ought to keep a good look at Morabito happening...but look at many.

Keep in mind If you got Butcher..whose possie does he take..repeat question for anyone who's a prospect.. and then see which positions are easiest to supplant..This then shapes the shopping list.

BBub. I think your response lacks full thought on several issues/areas you have mentioned. I'm not here to pick a fight just point out some things that I find glaringly obvious.

Let me elaborate.

Just exactly how many forwards..tall and crumbing do we need ? With likes of Watts and Jurrah supported by Maric and Wonna who else and in what capacity do we need ?

If you had written this post a couple of years ago it would have included names like Newton, Dunn, Bate, Weetra and Hayes with the same presumption that they would make it and be the nucleus of our forward line going forward, and many would have agreed with you.

I sincerely hope you are right with the names you have written but history shows you are probably wrong.

My point is why put all our eggs into the one basket (Watts) when we may have the opportunity to secure another highly rated potential KPF with the last opportunity for some time.

The team isnt full by any means but it could start to get crwoded up there..!!

Competition within the team can only be a good thing. It also means we will have some depth to fall back on if we get injuries.

The middle however needs serious overhaul if we are to step up. Forget what this and that player are..or supposedly at the club at present the simple reality is as a comined midfield we are well off the pace and if you dont think so you are either watching a completely different league or in need of a pharmacy !!

I think you are right here.

We certainly have lacked a decent stopper in the team since Batram has been dropped because of his limitations when he does get the ball. Dunn hasn't quite made it in that area either.

We definitely need more pace through there to complement Davey. Hopefully , Buckley, Bennell and Blease can develop, BUT, I wouldn't be relying on those alone doing it for us.

Rucking... well we may or may not be coverered by Meesen and Spencer... with Russian surpising as well. .

Injuries have really curbed any real development in this area so far this year. I don't think PJ is a ruckman but needs to be persisted with if for no other reason than to try and develop him into a make shift KPF until a better option out competes him for the spot.

We can get forwrd power sorted if only proper and consistant delivery is created

I am not quite sure what you are saying here. Do you mean better delivery will make our players bigger and stronger?

For mine a power forward is the one that you can rely on to contest and create an advanteous situation for the team when the ball is just 'dumped in their long' or inaccuately under pressure. That means taking a mark or putting the ball to advantage. Over the last decade we have seen small players like Yze, Green, Bruce, Robbo, Davey, Wona, Sylvia all play FF and look good with good delivery. And we have all seen them look shockingly out sized and muscled too when they had to contest due to poor delivery or balls just being dumped long.

My point is we can't JUST rely on getting a midfield together that possess pace and sublime foot skills because they will not always be in a situation where they can hit a forward target because of pressure or field position. We shouldn't stop trying to develop this type of midfield though.

Many a goal is now kicked by forward ranging midfielders. Its not all down to the forwards

This has always been the case for every good team. Even when Neitz was at his prime our midfield was kicking half the goals each week.

Keep in mind If you got Butcher..whose possie does he take..repeat question for anyone who's a prospect.. and then see which positions are easiest to supplant..This then shapes the shopping list.

At present there is only one player playing that I would concede is safe in our forwardline. Sylvia. That leaves plenty of room for him if he is good enough.

Go Dees - Building for the Future (Not Tanking just 'working to aquire compensation for an AFL sanctioned football landscape designed to make MFC success, and respect, all but impossible').

BBub. I think your response lacks full thought on several issues/areas you have mentioned. I'm not here to pick a fight just point out some things that I find glaringly obvious.

Let me elaborate.

Just exactly how many forwards..tall and crumbing do we need ? With likes of Watts and Jurrah supported by Maric and Wonna who else and in what capacity do we need ?

If you had written this post a couple of years ago it would have included names like Newton, Dunn, Bate, Weetra and Hayes with the same presumption that they would make it and be the nucleus of our forward line going forward, and many would have agreed with you.

I sincerely hope you are right with the names you have written but history shows you are probably wrong.

My point is why put all our eggs into the one basket (Watts) when we may have the opportunity to secure another highly rated potential KPF with the last opportunity for some time.

The team isnt full by any means but it could start to get crwoded up there..!!

Competition within the team can only be a good thing. It also means we will have some depth to fall back on if we get injuries.

The middle however needs serious overhaul if we are to step up. Forget what this and that player are..or supposedly at the club at present the simple reality is as a comined midfield we are well off the pace and if you dont think so you are either watching a completely different league or in need of a pharmacy !!

I think you are right here.

We certainly have lacked a decent stopper in the team since Batram has been dropped because of his limitations when he does get the ball. Dunn hasn't quite made it in that area either.

We definitely need more pace through there to complement Davey. Hopefully , Buckley, Bennell and Blease can develop, BUT, I wouldn't be relying on those alone doing it for us.

Rucking... well we may or may not be coverered by Meesen and Spencer... with Russian surpising as well. .

Injuries have really curbed any real development in this area so far this year. I don't think PJ is a ruckman but needs to be persisted with if for no other reason than to try and develop him into a make shift KPF until a better option out competes him for the spot.

We can get forwrd power sorted if only proper and consistant delivery is created

I am not quite sure what you are saying here. Do you mean better delivery will make our players bigger and stronger?

For mine a power forward is the one that you can rely on to contest and create an advanteous situation for the team when the ball is just 'dumped in their long' or inaccuately under pressure. That means taking a mark or putting the ball to advantage. Over the last decade we have seen small players like Yze, Green, Bruce, Robbo, Davey, Wona, Sylvia all play FF and look good with good delivery. And we have all seen them look shockingly out sized and muscled too when they had to contest due to poor delivery or balls just being dumped long.

My point is we can't JUST rely on getting a midfield together that possess pace and sublime foot skills because they will not always be in a situation where they can hit a forward target because of pressure or field position. We shouldn't stop trying to develop this type of midfield though.

Many a goal is now kicked by forward ranging midfielders. Its not all down to the forwards

This has always been the case for every good team. Even when Neitz was at his prime our midfield was kicking half the goals each week.

Keep in mind If you got Butcher..whose possie does he take..repeat question for anyone who's a prospect.. and then see which positions are easiest to supplant..This then shapes the shopping list.

At present there is only one player playing that I would concede is safe in our forwardline. Sylvia. That leaves plenty of room for him if he is good enough.

Go Dees - Building for the Future (Not Tanking just 'working to aquire compensation for an AFL sanctioned football landscape designed to make MFC success, and respect, all but impossible').

I'd want Sylvia in our midfield.

I also wouldn't shape a shopping list like that - I'd take the very best available, until the 3rd round when you start choosing by needs.

I'd want Sylvia in our midfield.

I also wouldn't shape a shopping list like that - I'd take the very best available, until the 3rd round when you start choosing by needs.

From all reports Butcher is currently the second best player available.

I know that could likely change though. It's still early days.

Basically without going into too much detail like I have tried to do will my previous posts to try and illustrate my point and back it up with solid information, let me put it like this.

IF the decision came down to choosing Morabito or Butcher because they were both rated extremely highly and experts were split on who should go No. 2, I would take Butcher the KP prospect over another utlilty type player.

I also think the MFC will too!!

Why?

Look who they selected at one and two last year and who they DIDN'T but could have. Both selections were based purely on TYPE.

Go Dees - Building for the Future. (Not Tanking just 'working to aquire compensation for an AFL sanctioned football landscape designed to make MFC success, and respect, all but impossible').

From all reports Butcher is currently the second best player available.

I know that could likely change though. It's still early days.

Basically without going into too much detail like I have tried to do will my previous posts to try and illustrate my point and back it up with solid information, let me put it like this.

IF the decision came down to choosing Morabito or Butcher because they were both rated extremely highly and experts were split on who should go No. 2, I would take Butcher the KP prospect over another utlilty type player.

I also think the MFC will too!!

Why?

Look who they selected at one and two last year and who they DIDN'T but could have. Both selections were based purely on TYPE.

Go Dees - Building for the Future. (Not Tanking just 'working to aquire compensation for an AFL sanctioned football landscape designed to make MFC success, and respect, all but impossible').

I'd take Butcher too, but I don't think if you look at the selections you can say that MFC picked based on type.

I think there were question marks over Naitanui whereas Watts was a guaranteed blue-chipper, which is what you need to take with the number 1 pick.

What I'm trying to highlight is the fact that I don't think Butcher is as clear cut number 2 as some say and also that after Scully the players available seem very average. They all have considerable flaws in my view, whereas I'd hope you'd be getting a really special player at pick 2.

Morabito has suspect kicking and hardnes, Butcher doesn't cover enough ground & is not versatile enough, Lucas is a nice kick, but beyond that..? I've seen him fumble the ball a few times when 5m clear -- for pick 2 you want hands that are clean as a whistle.

I'm looking forward to having another look at Koby Stevens and Jordan Gysberts.

If only Josh Toy was up for consideration...

I'd take Butcher too, but I don't think if you look at the selections you can say that MFC picked based on type.

I think there were question marks over Naitanui whereas Watts was a guaranteed blue-chipper, which is what you need to take with the number 1 pick.

What I'm trying to highlight is the fact that I don't think Butcher is as clear cut number 2 as some say and also that after Scully the players available seem very average. They all have considerable flaws in my view, whereas I'd hope you'd be getting a really special player at pick 2.

Morabito has suspect kicking and hardnes, Butcher doesn't cover enough ground & is not versatile enough, Lucas is a nice kick, but beyond that..? I've seen him fumble the ball a few times when 5m clear -- for pick 2 you want hands that are clean as a whistle.

I'm looking forward to having another look at Koby Stevens and Jordan Gysberts.

If only Josh Toy was up for consideration...

Cheers.

I look forward getting some more information when the Champs are over.

Go Dees - Building for the Future. Not tanking just 'working to aquire compensation for an AFL sanctioned football landscape designed to make MFC success, and respect, all but impossible'.

butcher isnt versatile. but u dont need to be. versatility is over-rated. A player can only play one position at one time so you might as well be a master at 1 position. Butcher has mastered the full forward position..he's just in bad form thats all

if you only counted his games played up forward he would be averaging close to 2 goals a game

Freak, have you a registered gun licence?

I have not seen someone shoot themselves in the foot as often and as willingly as you do.

I know it not deliberate wit on your behalf but your posts are laughable and getting better.

Freak, have you a registered gun licence?

I have not seen someone shoot themselves in the foot as often and as willingly as you do.

............... bbbbwwhahahahahha

Gee wizz Freak you're getting a bit of a pasting of late regarding you're views on footy. Even if I sold by most of it keep up the good work, don't let the man get you down brother!

thanks cards. its only rhino. having a bad opinion is better than having no opinion at all. rhino-richards is the biggest fence sitter

thanks cards. its only rhino. having a bad opinion is better than having no opinion at all. rhino-richards is the biggest fence sitter

It would appear to be better than lowering yourself in the seated position on a paling like you do Freak.

And given the stupidity of some your big noting pronoucements, having no opinion in those situations Freak would definitely make you look sharper, 8 ball.