I could only make it to the 2nd half on Saturday. My friends told me about the great game Paul Johnson was playing. Aned even after half time he played wwell around the ground.

But we were absolutely smashed in the centre. On the radio after the match I think I heard 19 centre clearances to 8 after half time. And many of them were clear-cut leading to an immediate Doggies score.Much discussion on 693 about this and its decisive effect upon the result

The previous week Johnson put in a herculean effort against Cox. He'd obviously studied the video intently. I was amazed how well he matched him. But then we got slaughtered by Lynch when he went onto the ball.

It's not Johnson's fault. He's done wonderfully well and we've learned something I believe. But unless you have key forwards who can take on the ruck work in the forward line--as David Schwarz did very well, you'll get caught out playing a single ruckman. On Sunday Maertin was required in defence--he couldnt help out.I saw Dunn and Sylvia contesting boundary throw ins and in the last quarter at a vital moment, Miller had to contest against Hudson right alongside our point post and the ball was whisked away to the other end.

What do you think?

We were smashed at the stoppages. The Bulldogs scored directly or indirectly from alot of the stoppages. I think from the stats it contributed to 8 or 9 goals to the dogs. We need to be better in this area, and the ruck is a major component as in hitting to advantage.

Looking forward to seeing a bit more of Spencer and Jamar when he's been given an opportunity.

I would normally agree 2 rucks is set in stone, but refer essendon ATM who don't have a real ruck at all and they've been going ok? So maybe one is sufficient

I would put the acid on our mids, not PJ.

He has been out of form this year but his last two weeks are a step in the right direction.

Our mids got smashed in the centre, wether PJ tapped it or not.

My persoanl view is that they were too conscious of 'their' man getting rather than moving to get the pill themselves.

And when you are reactive like that a quick handball to a running player will kill you - something the Dogs are excellent at.

I would put the acid on our mids, not PJ.

He has been out of form this year but his last two weeks are a step in the right direction.

Our mids got smashed in the centre, wether PJ tapped it or not.

My persoanl view is that they were too conscious of 'their' man getting rather than moving to get the pill themselves.

And when you are reactive like that a quick handball to a running player will kill you - something the Dogs are excellent at.

no--I think Donny Williams is right. Johnson got very tired in the 2nd half and the unusual absence of talls who could help him eg from CHF or FF, caught up with him and with us. I'm not blaming him--he was terrific.Must have another tall against Hawthorn who can run a few minutes each quarter at least, in the Ruck

no--I think Donny Williams is right. Johnson got very tired in the 2nd half and the unusual absence of talls who could help him eg from CHF or FF, caught up with him and with us. I'm not blaming him--he was terrific.Must have another tall against Hawthorn who can run a few minutes each quarter at least, in the Ruck

PJ tried valiantly on Saturday but he just couldn't maintain "it".

Bailey tried Martin in the center a couple of times in the first half but he was easily pushed aside by his bigger bodied opponent thus leaving PJ to battle on alone.

He needs help from Jamar in there to help out!

You don't necessarily need 2 ruckmen if ours is being beaten in the ruck then our mids need to be proactive instead of reactive and shark the ball from the opposition ruckmans taps. Study where their ruckman generally puts the ball and have one of the midfielders run to where he puts it. The other two are there to erither get our tap or to stop theirs if we miss sharking it.

Bailey tried Martin in the center a couple of times in the first half but he was easily pushed aside by his bigger bodied opponent thus leaving PJ to battle on alone.

Martin's body is the same size as Jamar and PJ's. They're all 100kg. I'd suggest it wasn't a 'bigger body', just lack of ruck skill.

Martin's body is the same size as Jamar and PJ's. They're all 100kg. I'd suggest it wasn't a 'bigger body', just lack of ruck skill.

I thought so too, that is until I saw Martin standing next to their ruckman (I don't think it was Minsen). Martin looked quite puny and was literally pushed out of the way as the ball was bounced. The action was quite dramatic and from where I was sitting it was startling to see him dealt with in that way. It almost appeared to be an act of contempt by the doggies ruck.

I remember Martin spending some time in the ruck when he was with Sandringham, prior to us drafting him and I thought he could do well as a pinch hitter for us. However after last Saturdays effort - I'm not so sure!

In my opinion you need 2 ruckmen. Even if one only pinch hits in the ruck for 5-10 mina quarter and can play the rest either forward, back or on the bench. Stef Martin may be able to fill this role ina few years time potentially if he can develope a ruckman's game?

Some really good points brought up in this thread.

IMO you do need 2 ruckman at AFL level, but it's been interesting that since we've only been playing one, we seem to be running out games a lot better. Johnson has tired considerably late in the last 2 matches, but having the extra runner in the side seems to have helped our on-ballers out a lot.

That said, a 2nd ruckman is vital for the longevity of a ruckman's career. If Johnson, or any of our other ruckman for that matter, had to play as lone ruck for 22 matches of each year, chances of them breaking down are massive. Ruck is one of the most physically demanding positions to play in aussie rules, and at least 5-10 mins respite for each quarter is crucial.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule- the elite ruckman in the league, Cox, Sandilands, Jolly, all tend to be used as sole ruckman for their clubs. This allows them to rack up the huge hitouts numbers they do, and in Cox's case, huge disposal numbers too. White was a perfect example of a player who played better as a lone ruckman rather than as part of a ruck duo (in his peak anyway). PJ seems like he is that way also, however his ruckwork and engine probably aren't strong enough at this stage to justify not selecting a 2nd ruckman when one is available.

I've enjoyed seeing PJ go around as the sole ruckman and these last 2 weeks he's been sensational- his stats are impressive (averaging 21 disposals and 19 hitouts over the last fortnight) and he's shown that he can cut it as a ruckman at AFL level. But he needs help, and as soon as one of Jamar or Spencer are ready for selection, i'd imagine they'll come straight in, as the title of this thread suggests, for team structure and balance.

Hawthorn have the worst ruck division in the comp Jamar shouldn't be needed and wouldn't be fit enough anyway maybe the week after.

Hawthorn have the worst ruck division in the comp Jamar shouldn't be needed and wouldn't be fit enough anyway maybe the week after.

They dont have the worst ruck division.

In last years GF and during the season Taylor and Campbell capably competed against and either nullified and beat a number of other ruck combinations.

They dont have the worst ruck division.

In last years GF and during the season Taylor and Campbell capably competed against and either nullified and beat a number of other ruck combinations.

Both had reasonable years last year. But they aren't great. Not even close to the top 10 ruck divisions in the comp.

Taylor, although fit, wasn't even picked for the GF and has discipline issues (suspended twice already this year). An ordinary player at best. No better than PJ or even Jamar.

Renouf, although now a premiership player, is young and raw, IMO is no better a prospect than Spencer, AND is a grade-A [censored] (see off-season drinking issues).

Campbell is solid but with the Hawks lack of key defenders, he's been playing FB (and getting belted).

I'm not saying our ruck division is any better. In all honesty, we probably have the worst ruck division at the moment. But there's isnt much better.

I think it would be beneficial to have Spencer back in the team.

Hawthorn have the worst ruck division in the comp Jamar shouldn't be needed and wouldn't be fit enough anyway maybe the week after.

I'd argue that either our or Adelaide's ruck division is the worst in the comp.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl...5-19742,00.html

the bulldogs scored 6.3.39 from centre clearances, whilst we didn't score at all... an area Bailey is definitely not happy with and has concentrated on it this week...

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl...5-19742,00.html

the bulldogs scored 6.3.39 from centre clearances, whilst we didn't score at all... an area Bailey is definitely not happy with and has concentrated on it this week...

Scott West is one of the coaches of the midfield. In the clearance work department too. <_<