Is the end near for Bruce?

[Strawbsodwyer 0]

I have seen every game this year and Cameron Bruce has been sadly out of touch. his disposal has dropped away and he does not appear to be setting up the play and finishing off the way he used to. I am now starting to worry as to whether he will be able to recapture his spark that made him one of the better players in the comp. Thoughts?

[DangerousDemon 3]

I have seen every game this year and Cameron Bruce has been sadly out of touch. his disposal has dropped away and he does not appear to be setting up the play and finishing off the way he used to. I am now starting to worry as to whether he will be able to recapture his spark that made him one of the better players in the comp. Thoughts?

I am sure Yze Magic will have some thoughts he would like to add to the discussion. Stand by for liftoff!!!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I have seen every game this year and Cameron Bruce has been sadly out of touch. his disposal has dropped away and he does not appear to be setting up the play and finishing off the way he used to. I am now starting to worry as to whether he will be able to recapture his spark that made him one of the better players in the comp. Thoughts?

I am sure Yze Magic will have some thoughts he would like to add to the discussion. Stand by for liftoff!!!

Y_M has been given a short holiday...

Bruce has been in the bests this year a number of times. He's no worse than any other regular demon, besides maybe Green, Davey and Moloney. He's fine... he'll be with us for, I reckon, 2 more years. Next andthe one after. But I doubt he'll stick around after that. If te squad comes on next year as we all hope it will, he'll be gone before 2011, maybe mid-way through.

Cam started his career quite late, and is a well-known preparer. His engine will see him maintain his game longer than your avergae injury-prone inside mid.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Somewhere and at some point you as a 'manager' have to make the call on what is best for the team. Somewhere into this will come the question one day of whether to play Bruce or play a kid. This year i dont think its going to happen. After this years draft and some games into them and a few other players the question of playing Bruce will definitley be on the table.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

This year is a dangerous year for Bruce, if he gets through he may stay on the list till the end of 2011. But if he keeps playing like he did yesterday they may make the hard call. I think he'll bounce back. Play him on a flank and move Bate to a wing. Might be the move both players need.

[H_T 3,043]

I have seen every game this year and Cameron Bruce has been sadly out of touch. his disposal has dropped away and he does not appear to be setting up the play and finishing off the way he used to. I am now starting to worry as to whether he will be able to recapture his spark that made him one of the better players in the comp. Thoughts?

He may have been out of touch on Sunday against Geelong. I beg to differ on 'every game' this year.

Y_M has been given a short holiday...

Or has he? ^

Bruce has been in the bests this year a number of times. He's no worse than any other regular demon, besides maybe Green, Davey and Moloney. He's fine... he'll be with us for, I reckon, 2 more years. Next andthe one after. But I doubt he'll stick around after that. If te squad comes on next year as we all hope it will, he'll be gone before 2011, maybe mid-way through.

Cam started his career quite late, and is a well-known preparer. His engine will see him maintain his game longer than your avergae injury-prone inside mid.

Agree.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Cameron celebrates his 30th this year...not somehting he'll want to shout about amongst a team of kids looking for a step up !! Whether ye are afore him or agin him, Bruce's halycon days are behind him. Sooner or later the Coach will opt for someone who can actually kick and handball to advantage more times than not. Bruce's days are indeed numbered..just what that number is is unclear.

[e25 5]

I don't think anything has actually changed about Bruce's game.

I think the game has evolved and passed him by -- the flaws in his disposal are now more easily exposed and overshadow everything else he does so well.

[beelzebub 23,313]

I don't think anything has actually changed about Bruce's game.

I think the game has evolved and passed him by -- the flaws in his disposal are now more easily exposed and overshadow everything else he does so well.

might be a fairly accurate appraisal

[titan_uranus 24,966]

Bruce is becoming a player you just don't want to see have the ball. He does a lot of good things, but undoes basically all of it with his poor kicking. I hope someone at the club tries to help him fix his ball-drop, because it's killing him at the moment.

[cooko 124]

everyone has a cry when i start a paul johnson thread.. yet starting a bruce one is ok?? come on.. bruce is far better then a lot of people in our team... especially PJ

[praha 11,227]

Bruce has been in the best in a side with no real experience. His kicking skills are just shocking and I don't think he will be a regular in 3-4 years time, which is when we'll be pushing for finals. He was a good player, but seems to have taken a step backwards. He is the best because of his decent tagging ability and agility and he does plenty of good things, but sometimes the effectiveness just isn't good enough, especially for the highest paid player at the club. He is a mid-range player at best imo.

[tez 6]

I don't think anything has actually changed about Bruce's game.

I think the game has evolved and passed him by -- the flaws in his disposal are now more easily exposed and overshadow everything else he does so well.

The game may have passed bruce by but there are some who seem will never catch up too

Bruce is the highest paid some would argue why well i say who is worthy of getting paid that amount seriously ??????

[beelzebub 23,313]

Bruce is on the books til the end of next year. . Depending on how some others come on and who we get in the draft then Cameron might have to seriously argue his case for another go around.

[Pello 1]

Another Bruce bashing thread.

Remember he won the B&F last year and remember this year he averages 26 disposals per game. Does he butcher the ball anymore than Bartram, Morton, Jones and Petterd? Certainly arguable but Bruce always seems to cop it.

Because he is a senior player and he gets the pill that often his poor disposals are highlighted. By the way his disposal efficiency yesterday was 82% but even if we assume an average of 65% (which by the way I think is lower than his actual efficiency for the year) then he is sending it to our advantage 17 times a game on average. How many players in the first 5 rounds have averaged 17 effective disposals a game - I'II go out on a ledge and say none!

He is a hard running midfielder that wins his share of the contested ball so get off his case!

[Jaded No More 68,855]

Given that we weren't brave enough to trade him at his peak, he is now worth virtually nothing on the open market.

I'm not sure whether or not his contract is out at the end of this year, but if it is, he should certainly be a year by year proposition.

While he is versatile, and he can run all day, he just does not do enough damage on the ground. His disposal and particularly his decision making is now too poor to ignore.

Might get one more year out of him, but personally it would be a shame if we kept playing him out of obligation, while he wasn't preforming, and we end up missing a young kid who might take his place instead and be around when we're ready to challenge.

Bailey doesn't strike me as the type to let players cruise along on reputation or history. Hopefully that means that Bruce will be made accountable for his poor skills sooner rather than later.

By the way, this is in no way a reflection on Bruce as a hard-working player. I think he gives his all most weeks, he runs all day and can generally play anywhere on the ground. He has been a good player for us over the years, especially given he was such a late draft pick. However, his time is nearing the end very very quickly, not because his body is not willing, but because his skills are declining fast.

This is actually the opposite of what is happening with Junior, who I think is struggling with his body (he seems to have lost a lot of pace, which he didn't have a huge amount of to begin with) while his skills remain on par.

[JACKATTACK 17]

Bruce has never had a good kick, but he remains one of our best players. Definately will be around next year and should be. The year after that is 50/50 and will depend on his ability to stay fit and his performace next year.

[beelzebub 23,313]

http://forums.demonland.com/style_images/d...uote-button.png

Another Bruce bashing thread.

No ..he's just being discussed. If much of what is said seems negative..then consider the suject andf not the ajudicators !!

Remember he won the B&F last year and remember this year he averages 26 disposals per game. Does he butcher the ball anymore than Bartram, Morton, Jones and Petterd? Certainly arguable but Bruce always seems to cop it.

rather damning for all I would have thought !!

Because he is a senior player and he gets the pill that often his poor disposals are highlighted. By the way his disposal efficiency yesterday was 82% but even if we assume an average of 65% (which by the way I think is lower than his actual efficiency for the year) then he is sending it to our advantage 17 times a game on average. How many players in the first 5 rounds have averaged 17 effective disposals a game - I'II go out on a ledge and say none!

Senior player=ought to know what he's supposed to do with it y now...then yes !!

Spot poll...who would want to be on the end of either his handballing or passing ?? dont be shy now..

Dont give a crap about stats as they dont encapsulate the nuances of play... Many of us simply use our eyes.

He is a hard running midfielder that wins his share of the contested ball so get off his case!

Winning it is all very well... disposal is what its really about otherwise no point having/getting it

[JACKATTACK 17]

No ..he's just being discussed. If much of what is said seems negative..then consider the suject andf not the ajudicators !!

Being discussed yes, bashed by you.

Spot poll...who would want to be on the end of either his handballing or passing ?? dont be shy now..

Much rather his than Bartram's or half our other midfielders.

Dont give a crap about stats as they dont encapsulate the nuances of play... Many of us simply use our eyes.

I used my eyes as well, I think he is one of our best players, incidentaly the club seemed to think that last year as well.

Winning it is all very well... disposal is what its really about otherwise no point having/getting it

Yes his disposal has been dissapointing so far this year, but then who on our list has the engine and the skill to replace him. Ultimately he is one of our best and as such deserves a spot for this year and next. I understand the argument to say that he takes the spot of someone younger and his current value to the team at the moment does not validate such a high cost, but at this point I don't think we're there nor will we be until 2011.

[Pello 1]

There are many players at the club that dispose of the ball poorly - my point is that Bruce is but one yet he is the focus of all the criticism.

Winning a B&F may be damning BB59 but all he can do is play his best and that he did and he won the honour - end of story.

I highlight the stats to prove a point - he still has on average 17 effective disposals a game. So clearly some players don't mind being on the end of any of those 17. I agree that stats can be misleading but they are a useful resource when the criticism is so harsh and unrelenting on one player who commits the sin that is committed by so many in the team so often.

[Jaded No More 68,855]

There are many players at the club that dispose of the ball poorly - my point is that Bruce is but one yet he is the focus of all the criticism.

That's because, at 30, he is never going to improve. He's only likely to decline further.

Besides, there are numerous threads on here which focus on Bate, Sylvia, PJ, Newton, not to mention the amount of posts made regarding the disposal of Bartram, Miller, McLean etc...

He is not the only player who cops criticism, but at 30, and being our vice-captain, we would be silly to ignore his rapid decline.

By the way, every single B&F player has declined at some stage. That is the natural progression of football players, regardless of how many awards they have won. If it wasn't, they'd play until they were dead.

[beelzebub 23,313]

(a)Yes his disposal has been dissapointing so far this year, but then who on our list has the engine and the skill to replace him. Ultimately he is one of our best and as such deserves a spot for this year and next. ( b )I understand the argument to say that he takes the spot of someone younger and his current value to the team at the moment does not validate such a high cost, but at this point I don't think we're there nor will we be until 2011.

a-sorry this year is no different at all in that respect..its just a fact..like it or not.. Call it bashing ..call it commentary call it what you like.. but poor disposal is simply POOR DISPOSAL !!

b-If you understand it, then you'll also see why he isnt an auto selection ( VC or otherwise )

The whole point aout being near a window say 2011/2012 etc is as a result of players getting game time NOW, not five mins before we want to have a serious go at a premiership. ALL these things start now and that includes the changing of the guard.

The higher cost is to do nothing.. all on the back that he was OK once !! etc

[Pello 1]

Jaded, the criticism labelled at Bruce is now and is focused on this year. When he is not getting the ball and his effectiveness to the MFC declines I too will call for him to be dropped - we are not there yet and based on his form so far this year he is some way off.

Agree there are other threads that focus criticism on other players but none more often and none more unjustified than the Bruce bashing that goes on.

Here is some more stats for all to dwell on:

- He is 2nd in total disposals for the year;

- He is equal 2nd in contested possessions this year;

- His disposal efficiency is 75% for the year. This is better than Brock McLean, Junior and many others;

- He is equal 6th in clearances;

and just to give some balance to the argument he is equal 6th in clangers.

All in all a pretty good year to date and certainly all of the crap that goes on about Bruce is simply not justified.

I know you will say stats aren't everything and I saw him do that or he should've have done that. Yes there are "nuances" in the game that can stick in peoples mind and hence stats are a way of removing the emotion and taking a step back from the argument.

Afterall stats can't be that bad - every single coach at every single club analyses them in great detail every week.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Pello..I neither like nor dislike Bruce as an individual..its matters not. I only care for what he can bring to the equation on game day..that, and that alone

If he ( CB ) could magically overnight eradicate his poor disposal from his game he would be invaluable..this being in relation to all else that he does do rather well. But strangely enough this is a game who's primary judgement is of a result. i.e win or lose. Many of us also apreciate a good contest and displays of fine skill.

Much of all the good work Bruce does is simply brought rapidly unstuck by his poor disposal... he simply manages to often make a Pig's ear out of a Silk purse !!

[JACKATTACK 17]

a-sorry this year is no different at all in that respect..its just a fact..like it or not.. Call it bashing ..call it commentary call it what you like.. but poor disposal is simply POOR DISPOSAL !!

b-If you understand it, then you'll also see why he isnt an auto selection ( VC or otherwise )

The whole point aout being near a window say 2011/2012 etc is as a result of players getting game time NOW, not five mins before we want to have a serious go at a premiership. ALL these things start now and that includes the changing of the guard.

The higher cost is to do nothing.. all on the back that he was OK once !! etc

I agree with all that you're saying, except that I think you under sell him a bit by saying he was "...OK once!!" he was favourite for the brownlow and he was our best player last year, which means nothing of course when you talk about his current position in the side, which I am not.

All I am saying is that he is far too good to drop now, and while I agree that his position on the list should be scrutinized considering his age I still think he has some way to fall before removing him completely.