And exactly what player is he?

Too inconsistent and would have been great trade bait to Carltank or the Shockers for a decent return in the last two years. Or next.

Over-hyped and overrated. He's the next best thing to Johhno we've got atm.

Thanks for proving my point.

His first four years were injury riddled and ordinary. Last year he was solid in some pretty ordinary sides. He will never be the star we had hoped. We will get more out of him on the paddock than we would have at the trade table.

I love the term "trade bait" for a player. Given that the trade table is basically dead why would Carlton and Freo go for a player who has been injury stricken and inconsistent.

BTW, he's nothing like TJ.

Actually, I was hoping to get a look at Jurrah. He looked ok playing kick to kick on the sidelines while the rest were warming up. ;p

I talked to someone tonight who played with him last year. He said that Jurrah was an absolute freak. Of course many people have already posted this information on the forum, but prior to tonight I took it with a grain of salt. After all, all of the Aboriginal boys have freakish skills. But with the glowing terms this guy used to describe Liam, I actually have to admit I'm a bit excited. However ...

It is still no certainty that he'll ever even get close to playing an AFL game. His integration into Melbourne life is of crucial importance. If this part of the massive effort required to get him up to AFL standards fails, we will never see him in the red and blue.

Fingers, toes, hairs and anything else you can think of crossed!!!

Pleasing to read that Buckley played well, breaking the lines, etc. Also Spencer's game. These are two critical areas regarding how our team functions. Having said that, there are other areas that need big improvement too.......

Bottom line, he isn't a bad player, and if anyone is overhyping him it's you guys that bag him for not being our best player, he is easily in our best 22

Maybe you should get over yourself when it comes to knowing all on the reasoning behind other fans' comments on Sylvia.

Have you considered that instead of simply being disappointed Sylvia's not a great, others might not agree with your assertion that he is 'easily in our best 22'?

I certainly don't think he's 'easily in our best 22'. What position has he cemented?

Absolutely Rogue, I think people aren't disappointed because he's not a superstar, people are disappointed because he's boarderline 22.

Agree a number 3 pick should be in your best 22

Maybe you should get over yourself when it comes to knowing all on the reasoning behind other fans' comments on Sylvia.

Have you considered that instead of simply being disappointed Sylvia's not a great. others might not agree with your assertion that he is 'easily in our best 22'?

I certainly don't think he's 'easily in our best 22'. What position has he cemented?

Way to take an argument about a player and turn it into a get over yourself battle, cause that is certainly the way to win an argument.

How hasn't he cemented a spot in our best 22? Just because he isn't a guaranteed top 10 player doesn't mean his is no good either..... 90% of our team is currently borderline best 22 because of how bad we are, but if I had to pick 22 borderline players, I would definately pick Sylvia.

To me people who can honestly say that he shouldn't be in our best 22 are seriously overhyping our younger brigade and our older players, Sylvia is in our best 22, no question about it, hence why he plays everyweek. Take off the Sylvia hating glasses and look at the players as just a number on a jersey, no potential, no draft position etc and number 12 must surely be in the 22.

Whilst I don't think Sylvia is "easily" in our best 22. I think he's in our best 22. Still, that is disappointing for a number 3 pick in a ND. If you were to ask me where I would rank Sylvia in the team, honestly... I would say anywhere between 7-18, depending what day it is. It might sound generous to some, it might seem harsh to others. Everyone has their different view.

Demons 32, if you think 90% of our list is boarderline best 22 but Sylvia is not boarderline, you must think him to be in the top 4-5 players at the club, is this true?

Demons 32, if you think 90% of our list is boarderline best 22 but Sylvia is not boarderline, you must think him to be in the top 4-5 players at the club, is this true?

"90% of our team is currently borderline best 22 because of how bad we are, but if I had to pick 22 borderline players, I would definately pick Sylvia"

Above is what I said.....

Im saying almost our entire team is borderline, and even if your right and Sylvia is nothing more than borderline..... out of all the borderlines he would definately make the top 22.

If you stop thinking about potential, what number he was drafted or personal beliefs on his attitude, fact is he deserves to be in that 22 and deserves to be in the best 22.

It's not a fact, that's your opinion.

I'm not looking at potential at all, I'm looking at where he fits in. This year, I would say he's just in the top 22 because we are at a bare bones level (and even then I struggle to put him in there), that's not saying much. He drifts in and out of games, never able to turn them, is often thoughtless when he doesn't have the footy and I can't think of a position which suits him. I don't see him down back (beyond teaching him to switch on), he's not really a midfielder in my eyes (though he should be able to play there this year) and up forward he has been good only in patches.

In the "Very Best 22" thread, I had Sylvia on an extended bench. Not because I'm mocking his "potential," but just that I don't see him clearly in our best 22, that is not to say I don't think he can get there.

An inconsistent, injury riddled, often lazy footballer who I have never seen play well enough in any position to say he should be picked there week in week out. Just because you say it's a "fact" he's best 22 does not make it so. Indeed, I don't know why you state his "draft position, attitude and potential" as I have never mentioned these things, I've even gone so far as to say that to "measure potential" is ridiculous as it cannot be measured

We talking a fit sylvia? Be in my 22 any day. Can't wait to see him shine this year! Whats in the past cant be undone though i've seen him train and spoke to him and said he couldn't be better. Future is Looking Bright for MFC and can't wait to be a part of it Go Sylvia!

Sylvia is not borderline 22. He is in our top 10 players. He was top 10 in the MFC in nearly every facet last season. Posters have and always have had an agenda against him, saying he is borderline 22 is absolutely ludicrous.

It's not a fact, that's your opinion.

I'm not looking at potential at all, I'm looking at where he fits in. This year, I would say he's just in the top 22 because we are at a bare bones level (and even then I struggle to put him in there), that's not saying much. He drifts in and out of games, never able to turn them, is often thoughtless when he doesn't have the footy and I can't think of a position which suits him. I don't see him down back (beyond teaching him to switch on), he's not really a midfielder in my eyes (though he should be able to play there this year) and up forward he has been good only in patches.

In the "Very Best 22" thread, I had Sylvia on an extended bench. Not because I'm mocking his "potential," but just that I don't see him clearly in our best 22, that is not to say I don't think he can get there.

An inconsistent, injury riddled, often lazy footballer who I have never seen play well enough in any position to say he should be picked there week in week out. Just because you say it's a "fact" he's best 22 does not make it so. Indeed, I don't know why you state his "draft position, attitude and potential" as I have never mentioned these things, I've even gone so far as to say that to "measure potential" is ridiculous as it cannot be measured

you obviously dont like sylvia< he has to be in the top dozen players on the list,if you got him on an extended bench you know nothing about footy,interesting to know if you would have whelan in the top 12, extended bench i cant stop laughing.

you obviously dont like sylvia< he has to be in the top dozen players on the list,if you got him on an extended bench you know nothing about footy,interesting to know if you would have whelan in the top 12, extended bench i cant stop laughing.

If you're arguing against me mate, I get all the more confident that I'm right

Sylvia is not borderline 22. He is in our top 10 players. He was top 10 in the MFC in nearly every facet last season. Posters have and always have had an agenda against him, saying he is borderline 22 is absolutely ludicrous.

How is he in our top 10? Surely we are not that bad. Where was he in the B&F about 20th behind Jones who got bagged all year. Sylvia is an ordinary player. If he wasn't pick 3 he wouldn't be getting a game. If he doesn't improve significantly and get a top 10 finish in the B&F this year we should let him go we can't afford to have players like him continually under performing. I'm not going to worry about him not performing in an intra club match or any practice match but if he doesn't perform rnd 1 then I will really get into him in Magic\Bruce proportions.

If you're arguing against me mate, I get all the more confident that I'm right

45 if he doesnt stand taller this year your call is correct,it would be interesting to now were the club rates him but they have him on a extended bench last season then they shouldv traded him.

No, it would not be about being correct if we're talking about at the end of the season.

As I've already pointed out, you cannot rate potential. I am not saying how he will play this year. If, by the end of the year, he hasn't "stood taller" it will simply say to me that nothing has changed.

That is how I see him at present, I hope he can step up this year (which, by the way, would not be proving me wrong either)

Way to take an argument about a player and turn it into a get over yourself battle, cause that is certainly the way to win an argument.

Haha, wow. Remember this?

Get over yourselves.

Can't you take your own medicine? If you want to dish out rubbish like that you have to expect it to be returned.

I agree that it's no way to win an argument, which is why I challenged your assertion that all those who criticise Sylvia do so because they think he should be a great player.

I chucked in the 'get over yourself' line as an afterthought, given your pithy comment directed at anyone who doesn't wear rose-coloured glasses when they watch Sylvia play.

How hasn't he cemented a spot in our best 22? Just because he isn't a guaranteed top 10 player doesn't mean his is no good either..... 90% of our team is currently borderline best 22 because of how bad we are, but if I had to pick 22 borderline players, I would definately pick Sylvia.

To me people who can honestly say that he shouldn't be in our best 22 are seriously overhyping our younger brigade and our older players, Sylvia is in our best 22, no question about it, hence why he plays everyweek.

He hasn't cemented a spot in our best 22 in the eyes of myself and others because his output isn't at the standard it needs to be - and that's relative to our list, which you suggest is so bad.

Melbourne's injury woes over the past two seasons, and our focus on youth in 2008, means Sylvia has been given an extended run in the side.

However, IMHO Sylvia's yet to cement any position in the side.

Take off the Sylvia hating glasses and look at the players as just a number on a jersey, no potential, no draft position etc and number 12 must surely be in the 22.

On the contrary, take off the rose-coloured glasses and you have an under-performing player who is yet to cement any position in the side after five years on the list.

What are you hanging your hat on? In 2008 he had a career-high disposal average and it was 17 - hardly stellar. Sylvia's predominantly played in the forward half but averages less than a goal a game.

He averages 2.7 tackles per game but part of that must be down to his approach to a 50/50 contest, where he's happy to let his opponent lead him to the ball and then attempt to apply the tackle. Some say this is evidence of his hard approach missing at Melbourne, but give me a guy who's happy to take the ball first and wear a tackle.

You also have a player who must now have serious question marks about his body's ability to cope with the demands of AFL football.

You've got one thing right - once a player is on the list they take up as much room as any other - one spot. I suggest that if Sylvia was a pick 60 instead of a pick 3 he may have been gone long before now. Regardless, he certainly wouldn't have as many fans.

That is how I see him at present, I hope he can step up this year (which, by the way, would not be proving me wrong either)

As would I.

Sylvia is not borderline 22. He is in our top 10 players. He was top 10 in the MFC in nearly every facet last season. Posters have and always have had an agenda against him, saying he is borderline 22 is absolutely ludicrous.

How is it 'ludicrous'? Let's take the best and fairest ranking - it's done by those at the Club (who presumably know the roles players are supposed to perform) rather than fans.

Sylvia was ~19th in the best and fairest. Removing White, who is the only player who finished above him and isn't on the list anymore, that means Sylvia's ranked ~18.

The best and fairest might not be a great guide but at least it's objective. If we accept ~18th ranking I'd say that's borderline 22, particularly given that guys with proven track records like Davey, Robbo and Rivers (plus Moloney if you swing that way) aren't in that top 18.

We also need to add another ruckman to our 22, and we should expect natural improvement from younger guys like Petterd, Buckley, Martin, Frawley and other younger players all keen to get a run.

Best and fairest ranking means absolutely nothing. If it is then you must think Warnock is our 4th best player, Bartram is our 8th best and Dunn is our 12th best.

Look at the stats for 2008 on the MFC page: http://melbournefc.com.au/Stats/tabid/7429/default.aspx

In just about every column you can rank the players on, Sylvia is top 10. A few of them he is first.

Of course stats on their own mean nothing, but when you have just about every stat imaginable there with Syvlia coming top 10 for the club in 90% of them, you can see he is a top 10 player for us. Borderline 22? Um, no.

Sylvia is just a player. He lacks footy nous and is yet to make a position his own. He's not a mids bootlace, not a KPP, and lacks the silk of half forward flankers.

Sadly, just a player.

Best and fairest ranking means absolutely nothing. If it is then you must think Warnock is our 4th best player, Bartram is our 8th best and Dunn is our 12th best.

Look at the stats for 2008 on the MFC page: http://melbournefc.com.au/Stats/tabid/7429/default.aspx

In just about every column you can rank the players on, Sylvia is top 10. A few of them he is first.

Of course stats on their own mean nothing, but when you have just about every stat imaginable there with Syvlia coming top 10 for the club in 90% of them, you can see he is a top 10 player for us. Borderline 22? Um, no.

I would say stats mean nothing also I would have thought that PJ, Warnock, Garland and Aussie definately had better years than Sylvia but have less stats. Jones would be a top 5 if we looked at the stats we all know that he isn't.

I love when people say "stats don't mean much" then make an argument based solely on stats.

No doubt you will refute as "simply stats" whatever I now say.

You are correct, he was in the top 10 for many stats, and you are also correct in that stats are meaningless.

If you looked at the top 13 at the club for kicks, handballs, disposals, marks, Tackles, Goals and Disposal Efficiency (6 aspects) it features these players:

Sylvia (6), Wheatley (4), Green (6), Bruce (6), Morton (5), McDonald (4), Mclean (4), Jones (5), Bate (6), Bell (4), Bartram (4) and Miller (4). Obviously as you can see, the same 10 players feature in the top 13 in basically every category at the club, if you play in-near the middle you will get the ball more (gee, who would've thought it). He's also 3rd for clangers, 25th for Disposal Efficiency.

As you say, stats mean nothing. All we learnt from that is that the top ten at our club dominate most facets of statistics at the MFC, and the top ten in these categories helped us to achieve one of the worst on field seasons in recent years.

But I'm glad that I can "now see that he is a top 10 player"

Top Twelve at MFC

Sylvia, Green, Bruce, Wheatley, Morton, McDonald, Mclean, Jones, Bate, Bell, Bartram and Miller - I don't think so. Stats means nothing.

What position has he dominated?

Sylvia is just a player. He lacks footy nous and is yet to make a position his own. He's not a mids bootlace, not a KPP, and lacks the silk of half forward flankers.

Sadly, just a player.

2009 is The year that Sylvia will tell us what he is made of. Ime very confident Col will answer us either way this season.

Sylvia is a top 10 player for us. Simple. Those stats aren't everything, they are just one way of backing up my opinion. You could say those stats show he is a great all-round player for us.

If Sylvia was drafted in the third round of the 2003 draft people would be calling him one of our best players. The fact that he was drafted at three and everyone put such hope on him to become our best player has left you all sour and disappointed. Time to take off the glasses.