He is behind McLean Jones and Junior. FWIW I think Moloney is on his last chance.

I agree with you there. As much as I love him as a player, I think Beama will most likely be gone at the end of season 2009.

He is behind McLean Jones and Junior. FWIW I think Moloney is on his last chance.

Jones will be ok but needs to improve his decision making and disposal, McDonald will be retired by season's end and McLean and Moloney have injury concerns.

Its a case of having too many one paced midfielders with limitations on their skills.

I really don't think his skills are the problem. He can get the ball and use it well whether he can kick the ball 50m or not.

I wonder if some of the posters here should be agents for Rockcliff and Sibosado the way they talk them up.

Both are exciting prospects but they weren't drafted for a reason. That doesn't mean they won't become good players in time.

Jones will be ok but needs to improve his decision making and disposal, McDonald will be retired by season's end and McLean and Moloney have injury concerns.

I agree on Jones and McDonald. If Brock and Beamer suffer LT injuries then we can take Valenti off the rookie list at that point.

I dont think he offers us anymore that what we already have. He has 12 months to prove otherwise. I would be happy if he does but certainly his lack of pace will be a lack of pace always and I dont think his level of ball usage is enough to overcome it.

Look I would love Valenti to make it in AFL as a capable footballer in a competitive midfield. However both he and MFC have alot of improving to do.

Both are exciting prospects but they weren't drafted for a reason. That doesn't mean they won't become good players in time.

If they werent drafted for a reason then they are not exciting. Its does not mean they will either. The PSD is a bit of a lucky dip at best.

I guess the comparison with Davey was more logical.

I never made that comparison either. Just because I'm opposing your view and someone else who opposes your view made that statement doesn't mean it applies to me too. But it's easier for you to just lump us all into the one box - it must be hard to pick all of the individuals out from such a lofty perch up there on your high horse.

For non-KPF/talls; Valenti, Godfrey and Davey are at the three extremes of the footballing spectrum. Valenti is one-paced but a genuine ball magnet with good skills (just lacking kicking penetration). Godfrey was fit and strong and could tackle but was useless at getting or using the football. Davey is quick, flashy and skilful.

For non-KPF/talls; Valenti, Godfrey and Davey are at the three extremes of the footballing spectrum. Valenti is one-paced but a genuine ball magnet with good skills (just lacking kicking penetration). Godfrey was fit and strong and could tackle but was useless at getting or using the football. Davey is quick, flashy and skilful.

Bollocks.

I will make it simple for you. Godfrey and Valenti are both one paced, limited skills and fringe players.

And if Valenti is " geniune ball magnet" , then by Clint's statistics MFC must be dominating therough the centre as we would be winning a hell of a lot of ball in the midfield with about 5 ball magnets getting leather poisoning each week.

How many games has Valenti played again?

Looking at the way we played last year, and also by the way we have drafted both this year and last year, we are trying to play a fast paced and precise counterattacking game.

Mitchell does well in this sort of atmosphere because he is a wonderful clearance player with an average of 6.0 clearances per game. Valenti had 2.3 per game.

But if you have a look at the players surrounding Mitchell there is a fair bit of pace, with only Lewis being in the below average category for speed. We have McLean (easily our best midfielder), Jones, Junior and Moloney (who was just behind McLean for clearances per game last year).

So we probably don't need more of these types, but we need more quality in them. After this year it will probably be McLean, Jones and Moloney. If Valenti is going to break into the side then he will need to become a high clearance winner and displace one of those three players. Too many of these players will kill our counter attacking game. We're transitioning from a game style that required big bodies (like ND liked) to one that requires skill and pace. Valenti is not overly skillful and does not have a great deal of pace, the two prerequisites for our drafting so far.

I'm happy to have him on the rookie list. I'd rather use our PSD pick as effectively a rookie draft priority pick.

Let's call it like it is, Valenti will be dropped from the rookie list at year's end. He will never play in a serious finals side.

Looking at the way we played last year, and also by the way we have drafted both this year and last year, we are trying to play a fast paced and precise counterattacking game.

Mitchell does well in this sort of atmosphere because he is a wonderful clearance player with an average of 6.0 clearances per game. Valenti had 2.3 per game.

But if you have a look at the players surrounding Mitchell there is a fair bit of pace, with only Lewis being in the below average category for speed. We have McLean (easily our best midfielder), Jones, Junior and Moloney (who was just behind McLean for clearances per game last year).

So we probably don't need more of these types, but we need more quality in them. After this year it will probably be McLean, Jones and Moloney. If Valenti is going to break into the side then he will need to become a high clearance winner and displace one of those three players. Too many of these players will kill our counter attacking game. We're transitioning from a game style that required big bodies (like ND liked) to one that requires skill and pace. Valenti is not overly skillful and does not have a great deal of pace, the two prerequisites for our drafting so far.

I'm happy to have him on the rookie list. I'd rather use our PSD pick as effectively a rookie draft priority pick.

You're comparing the statistics of a club captain and an established star in Mitchell, with a 1st year player who's played 9 games.

I agree with everything else you've said, and it just reaffirms my belief that Bailey's game plan is fraught with failure. He basically needs to turnover our complete list, and hope like hell that we can acquire a truckload of elite, skillful, pacy midfielders and defenders through the draft. Good luck!!!!

A counter attacking gameplan is high risk imo.

Not in our best 25, but if injuries and still playing well at VFL then an opportunity might come up.

He played some great games last year and filled a role but is not one of our best and certainly not one of our best moving forward.

"Let's call it like it is, Valenti will be dropped from the rookie list at year's end. He will never play in a serious finals side." - RoostIT you are spot on. I was a little less blunt but essentially see it the same way. We know what we will get with him so don't waste a spot on the list. Lets all move on.

"Let's call it like it is, Valenti will be dropped from the rookie list at year's end. He will never play in a serious finals side." - RoostIT you are spot on. I was a little less blunt but essentially see it the same way. We know what we will get with him so don't waste a spot on the list. Lets all move on.

In your own words "he played some great games last year", yet he's not worth a spot on our list?

And anyone who uses the argument "He will never play in a serious finals side", has no credibility. If you happen to watch the game, premiership sides are made up of all types of players, especially ball winning mids with good decision making skills.

I'm happy to have him on the rookie list. I'd rather use our PSD pick as effectively a rookie draft priority pick.

I agree Axis.

You're comparing the statistics of a club captain and an established star in Mitchell, with a 1st year player who's played 9 games.

I agree with everything else you've said, and it just reaffirms my belief that Bailey's game plan is fraught with failure. He basically needs to turnover our complete list, and hope like hell that we can acquire a truckload of elite, skillful, pacy midfielders and defenders through the draft. Good luck!!!!

A counter attacking gameplan is high risk imo.

OMG!

IMO a counter attacking gameplan with acquired elite pacy midfielders and defenders through turning over the list IS what is required to beat the likes of the Hawthorn's and the Geelong's in a Grand Final. If you intend to go down the path of the status quo and obtain rejects or 'used' players to plug gaps like the Picket's and Holland's of this world you may get to the finals occassionally but you'll never be a premiership side let alone see week 3 of the finals series. We need a huge dose or injection of quality players who will develop together. Morton, Grimes, Watts, Blease, Strauss, Martin, Garland are part of that developing group.

edit: FFS Premierships are won with counter attacking gameplans.

IMO a counter attacking gameplan with acquired elite pacy midfielders and defenders through turning over the list is what is required to beat the likes of the Hawthorn's and the Geelong's in a Grand Final. If you intend to go down the path of the status quo and obtain rejects or 'used' players to plug gaps like the Picket's and Holland's of this world you may get to the finals occassionally but you'll never be a premiership side let alone see week 3 of the finals series. We need a huge dose or injection of quality players who will develop together. Morton, Grimes, Watts, Blease, Strauss, Martin, Garland are part of that developing group.

Totally agree and which is why valenti is not there. If one of these "Premium" players get injured I'm sure his opportunity will come. But for now he WILL stay on the rookie list and I don't know why we keep discussing. There is about as much chance of valenti getting a snr spot as us taking cus on tue.

In your own words "he played some great games last year", yet he's not worth a spot on our list?

And anyone who uses the argument "He will never play in a serious finals side", has no credibility. If you happen to watch the game, premiership sides are made up of all types of players, especially ball winning mids with good decision making skills.

Name one premeirship side in the last 10 years with a very short, slow, very ordinary footballer playing in the midfield

Name one premeirship side in the last 10 years with a very short, slow, very ordinary footballer playing in the midfield

If Valenti is a very ordinary footballer, why have we retained him on our rookie list?

I agree with everything else you've said, and it just reaffirms my belief that Bailey's game plan is fraught with failure. He basically needs to turnover our complete list, and hope like hell that we can acquire a truckload of elite, skillful, pacy midfielders and defenders through the draft. Good luck!!!!

A counter attacking gameplan is high risk imo.

He is turning over our complete list! It's got very little to do with luck and alot to do with good planning, great coaches and sound recruiting. For f**cks sake in the last 2 years he's basically recruited at least 10 players who have good skills and pace and play predominantly midfield and half back/forward, several of whom will become elite. So what was your argument again?

Besides this you don't really know how Bailey's gameplan will pan out because he has neither all the components, nor are the ones he has, trained and experienced in what he is trying to do.

If Valenti is a very ordinary footballer, why have we retained him on our rookie list?

Either in emergency (many injuries) or because those who will replace him are still very young

If Valenti is a very ordinary footballer, why have we retained him on our rookie list?

And the slow, short, ordinary premeirship player is??

And the slow, short, ordinary premeirship player is??

I don't rate Valenti as an ordinary footballer, so what's your point?

Captain Kirk........pretty sure he fits the bill.

Captain Kirk........pretty sure he fits the bill.

Now there's a response from someone who knows his football!!!

I don't rate Valenti as an ordinary footballer, so what's your point?

OK then, who's the premeirship midfielder who most resembles (in ability and style of play) Valenti?

Haha....now you're making me blush

Having a stab at it here. Shaun Hart. Brisbane.

edit: for the record Valenti is no where near as good.

There seems to be two camps here. The Valenti isn't good enough and the valenti is good enough camp.

I would say that Valenti has been a very good and consistent performer at sandy. He wins the ball and uses it well and at that level is comaparable to a sam mitchell style of player. When he has played senior football he has shown the ability t o win the footy and has put his body on the line and played with spirit. His lack of pace has also been apparent.

Whether he has the ability to transfer his possession winning, engine room type game in senior football is not known yet. He simply has not had the opportunities to settle in or the freedom to play his style of game. Do I think he is good enough? I like some of what I have seen and appreciate his endeavour but I need to see more of him at senior level to make a decision.