Everyone seems to assume that Weetra is gone but he's still very young. In the old days I think he'd still be playing under 19s

Everyone seems to assume that Weetra is gone but he's still very young. In the old days I think he'd still be playing under 19s

He is playing Sandy 2nds and the reports are not favourable about his development. What's your research?

Bode was only elevated from the rookie list last year, so wouldn't that mean that like all players recieving their first contract it would be for a minimum length of 2 years, meaning he's contracted for next year as well?

Bode was only elevated from the rookie list last year, so wouldn't that mean that like all players recieving their first contract it would be for a minimum length of 2 years, meaning he's contracted for next year as well?

I don't know about that but if he is we may just pay him out. He can't be on much and for all our awfulness it is still difficult to find enough players to cull.

I don't know about that but if he is we may just pay him out. He can't be on much and for all our awfulness it is still difficult to find enough players to cull.

Can you think of any player (other than retirees) who has been delisted and paid out of a contract more than a year early?

I'm not convinced its not against the AFL/AFLPA agreement.

Can you think of any player (other than retirees) who has been delisted and paid out of a contract more than a year early?

I'm not convinced its not against the AFL/AFLPA agreement.

Not off the top of my head but Capuano was paid out mid-season so I don't think there would be a time limit to when you can pay out a contract. It should be a clubs right, it's their money.

I'm almost certain Mark Jamar will go..

Yeah? How much certain?

out the door at seaons end should be: yze, holland, white, bode, weetra, one of whelan/wheatley, neitz (i hoped newton)

Wouldn't of thought Whelan or Wheatley would be going anywhere.

if we were going to trademore players, i wouldnt be upset if sylvia or bartram names were put on the table

As long as the names stay at Melbourne after they have been put on the table, I wouldn't be upset.

Bode was only elevated from the rookie list last year, so wouldn't that mean that like all players recieving their first contract it would be for a minimum length of 2 years, meaning he's contracted for next year as well?

He is out of contract at the end of this year.

I am dubious whether we will elevate either Wona or Valenti. If we elevating one player it would be Wona on the proviso he improves his fitness dramatically. Valenti hasnt shown enough for mine. Possible cut or rookie for another year.

Valenti hasnt shown enough for mine. Possible cut or rookie for another year.

What were you expecting from Valenti after nine games of AFL?

Wona and Valenti both deserve to be on the senior list.

Wona = leading goalkicker.

Valenti = in and under midfielder, currently depth but far from being a spud.

It would be shameful to keep these guys on the absolute minimum salary reserved for players who aren't really expected to make it at AFL level at all.

I would think Bode might find himself back on the rookie list next year - not performing but not a write off just yet.

What were you expecting from Valenti after nine games of AFL?

Other than getting the contested ball more than Jones, having less clangers than Jones, and actually being able to kick it to someone (which Jones can't).

Valenti is a quiet gun. I'd take him in a heartbeat over Jones.

Also, as I've pointed out before.

Neitz, Holland, White, Yze Bode Weetra out.

Valenti and Wonaeamirri in.

One other person out (I'd assume Carroll since his opportunities are only going to become sparser as the young defenders develop, but maybe someone like Dunn who has some value but isn't a 'prize').

= picks 1, 17, 19, and 35 possibly enhanced slightly, to mid 20s by trading one or more of Carrol/White/Dunn.

and PSD pick 1

Plus six rookie list selections (due to veteran list retirements, plus new rookie places in compensation for compromised drafts)

Random delistings aren't really that useful if it only opens up pick 50+

Similarly, trading for very little isn't much use.

Resist the urge to try to find a 'cure' in trading. A late first round pick will, most likely, play fewer games at a lower standard in their career than any of Green, Bruce, Sylvia, or Wheatley have left, even if they've only got three years to go.

Also, I think there's fun to be had throwing in pick 51 (a pick I don't think we'll use anyway) as a sweetener on a trade. Gotta work the system! Carroll, pick 35 and pick 51 for pick 25. Everyone wins, even Nathan Carroll!

Carroll is contracted for next year.

Confirmed signing for 2009 - Heath Black to Noble Park!

And Robert Harvey to whatever club Stewart Loewe coaches in the Ammos

Valenti and Wonaeamirri in.

Maybe. Wonaeamirri would be a certian promotion of the rookie list I would imagine. Valenti maybe. There might be a case to keep him on the rookie list for next season. We'll see either way.

One other person out (I'd assume Carroll since his opportunities are only going to become sparser as the young defenders develop, but maybe someone like Dunn who has some value but isn't a 'prize').

Carroll is contracted next year. Dunn may have found his niche' in the side from Bailey's point of view. Work in Progress IMO.

Resist the urge to try to find a 'cure' in trading. A late first round pick will, most likely, play fewer games at a lower standard in their career than any of Green, Bruce, Sylvia, or Wheatley have left, even if they've only got three years to go.

Melbourne have said they are heading down the youth track. It won't matter if a late first round draft pick will play fewer games next year. It's all about getting a side "ripe" across the board in four or five years time. We and the club I'd imagine, wouldn't want any "dead fruit" when it gets to that stage in 4-5 years. So it may pay to look at trading "ripe fruit" now to another team and get back early pick(s) for some "raw" or "green"(not ripened) fruit for the future!

Ie. Green, Bruce and perhaps Wheatley.

Also, I think there's fun to be had throwing in pick 51 (a pick I don't think we'll use anyway) as a sweetener on a trade. Gotta work the system! Carroll, pick 35 and pick 51 for pick 25. Everyone wins, even Nathan Carroll!

Who would want Nathan Carroll? And as I've said before, he's contracted for 2009.....

What were you expecting from Valenti after nine games of AFL?

For a player that lacks speed, to survive in the midfield in AFL he needs to show that he can get lots of contested possession and to use it really well. I have seen nothing to suggest he has anything special that should command an elevation off the list at this point.

For a player that lacks speed, to survive in the midfield in AFL he needs to show that he can get lots of contested possession and to use it really well. I have seen nothing to suggest he has anything special that should command an elevation off the list at this point.

I agree. He works hard but he doesn't do anything quite well enough to ever be better than position 25-35 on a decent AFL club's list.

What's your source for Bode being uncontracted, and Carroll being contracted for 2009? I haven't seen anything that convinces me that either is correct.

For a player that lacks speed, to survive in the midfield in AFL he needs to show that he can get lots of contested possession and to use it really well. I have seen nothing to suggest he has anything special that should command an elevation off the list at this point.

He uses the ball extremely well, I honestly don't know where you have pulled that one from. He has a lovely penetrating kick and is a very good decision maker.

I hate having to rely on stats, but let's just have a look at some of this year so far.

Valenti: 9 games, 67% game time, 17 disposals per game, 76.01% efficiency, 5.2 contested possessions per game (30.5% of possessions are contested).

Jones: 20 games, 80% game time, 20.65 disposals per games, 69.48% efficiency, 5.57 contested possessions per game (26.9% of possessions are contested).

McDonald: 18 games, 79% game time, 20.22 disposals per game, 78.73 % efficiency, 6.05 contested possessions per game.

McLean: 14 games, 80 % game time, 23.64 disposals per game, 74.19% efficiency, 7.2 contested possessions per game.

Bruce: 21 games, 85% game time, 23.9 disposals per game, 75.41% efficiency, 6.4 contested possessions per game.

Green: 19 games, 88% game time, 23 disposals per game, 73.28% efficiency, 5.4 contested possessions per game.

I can't be bothered doing anymore, but you get the point. Valenti had had far less game time than these other players, yet his statistics more than stack up.

I cannot understand why you would be considering trading Jones & Bate. They are both young players whic is supposedly what we are building on. Also the CLUB needs leaders and Bruce,Green Wheatley & Whelan will supply that until our 20 YO get into the "Window".

It seems some people think that if someone from Melbourne plays a good game(s) then he should be traded. I thought we should keep the ones that play good games.

Consider Aussie, 1st year wins goalkicking when only 1/2 fit, Valenti was in the middle when it hit the fan against Brisbane and we didnt lose antything by it. We have got potentially good running midfielders i.e. Maric ( just think how quick he will be when he gets out of nappies), Davey , we have just got to teach them and I think we have the people to do it in the Coaching Staff AND Green,Bruce & Whelan (who commands a lot of respect amongst the younger players).

Lets concentrate on enjoying watching these good kids improve rather than selling them off to every vulture that walks past.

I hate having to rely on stats

Then don't.

From memory you may have been one of those people harping on about Bruce's kicking yet his efficiency is probably as good as, or better, than the players you just listed

Then don't.

From memory you may have been one of those people harping on about Bruce's kicking yet his efficiency is probably as good as, or better, than the players you just listed

Sometimes a my word versus your word argument doesn't get very far and the stats are the only thing there is.

Unfortunately, efficiency doesn't stipulate if the ball lacks penetration, is a kick to someone standing still 30 metres backwards and so on. But, it's the best I could find.

Valenti does have a penetrating kick and more often then not after he uses the ball it is in a better position than when it was in his hands.

I hate having to rely on stats,......

I can't be bothered doing anymore.....

You should have stopped with your first statement. The statistics highlight little except for those that glean their impression of the game from Monday's paper without attending.

From my position he does not provide anything more than you have established with some of other players yet is slower. I dont see what he will add to the existing list. He is an honest in and under player that has shown little to suggest IMO that he will get upgraded. Happy to leave to the coaching staff but he is fringe IMO.

You should have stopped with your first statement. The statistics highlight little except for those that glean their impression of the game from Monday's paper without attending.

You said he should get lots of contested possessions and use the ball well.

I proved that he does get lots of contested possessions and according to the "efficiency" statistics (which I don't always rate but are better than nothing) he uses the ball better than most other senior midfielders.

From a more subjective perspective, in every game I've seen Valenti play he has kicked and handpassed well (good technique, penetration etc), shown that he has a very good football brain (almost always puts the ball in a very good position) and most importantly this apparent lack of legs peed hasn't been an issue at all.

Time will tell, I just bloody well hope that the club signs him on because as I have said before I think he will be (probably already is better than Jones and possibly Moloney).

He's also older than Jones

He's also older than Jones

By about a year.

By about a year.

I, too, rate Valenti higher than Jones, and Moloney. And at 21/22/23 yrs, I have no problem at all. Can't have a whole team aged 19/20.