Friday night confirmed what i already know. Yes we have a great History but it is too long ago and holds no relevance to the club at present. The Melbourne Football club do not know the Culture of winning.

For the first four and a half minutes of last fridays game we were competative (I was watching the clock) but as soon as Geelong kicked the First Goal-the game was over, we as a team waved the white Hanky. I have never seen it come out so early.

It's been so long since we have tasted Success that we as a club don't know how to do it. Sure we win the odd game, Have the odd good season (Tease) but when the Heat is really on, and success is on the line-we lose. John Northey was the closest coach to try and instill a "Winning Culture" into the club, But for even he the closest was a 96 point Thrashing in the '88 GF. Hawthorn treated us with Disdain that day, just as Geelong did on friday night.

Sadly at Present we are viewed in the Same way as Fremantle by opposition Supporters, that being NO RESPECT. Just like St.Kilda on Saturday night. Collingwood should have been thrashed with what happened during the week and with the team that played out there. But the Filth have Pride, st.kilda don't and they like us don't know how to win when expected.

How do we get rid of this Mediocre culture?

For us to survive and prosper we need to be playing like North Melbourne. Flying under the radar and winning. Building respect ever so slowly.

Melbourne Sides need to go out onto the grass against anyone and anywhere, expecting to win and accepting nothing less.

We had it 60 years ago can we get that Mojo Back? Can Jim Stynes & Co with Bails do it?

Melbourne Sides need to go out onto the grass against anyone and anywhere, expecting to win and accepting nothing less.

It's easy to talk about accepting mediocrity etc, but the fact of the matter is that we were missing almost half our best 22, and after moving on depth players at the end of last year and focussing on youth this year - to the detriment of Holland, Yze, etc - we were always going to have short-term pain.

Can you explain what you mean by your implication that we're accepting something less than winning? How would we go about not accepting the loss last night?

I support the broad direction we're going in terms of list management, and recognise that there will be more low points ahead.

For starters, let's not appoint a captain who has been a party to our soft culture over the last decade especially.

That means no Bruce, JMac or even Green. Let's give it to Brock and let him be the leader of our core young group of players coming through.

We've cleared out the coaches, we are slowly getting rid of those players and now we can take the next step and appoint a new captain who will see us to a new culture at the club.

That means no Bruce, JMac or even Green. Let's give it to Brock and let him be the leader of our core young group of players coming through.

100% agree.

For starters, let's not appoint a captain who has been a party to our soft culture over the last decade especially.

That means no Bruce, JMac or even Green. Let's give it to Brock and let him be the leader of our core young group of players coming through.

We've cleared out the coaches, we are slowly getting rid of those players and now we can take the next step and appoint a new captain who will see us to a new culture at the club.

There were people on level 2 MCC near where i was sitting Clapping the team at the end of the Game. That's what i call accepting mediocraty! I was appalled at that. Friday was unacceptable.

I agree with Brock McLean as Capt after reading he Donated 10 G's of his own cash to the Cause. That is serious committment.

For starters, let's not appoint a captain who has been a party to our soft culture over the last decade especially.

Through parts of 2004-06, Mfc were not soft. The first half of these seasons Melbourne earned back respect from playing tough uncompromising footy only to shoot themselves in the foot come the finish of those home and away seasons in losing the double chance before the finals and finishing in positions 6-8.

This must be pointed out, you can't wipe off a whole decade as simply soft. For the record 1998, 2000 and 2002 the Demons weren't too bad either.

Jimmy's described it as a 'culture of mediocrity'. I feel the image of the club off field has just as much to do with how the players represent it. There's a lot of talk about the club not standing for anything. Maybe a weakness of identity. If we compare directly with the Kangaroos, they have the public image of the defiant Shinboner Spirit, how are Melbourne viewed? What are the players playing for at Melbourne, pride in the jumper? Themselves? The club needs to draw a line in the sand, and the players need to commit themselves to this stance. I thought debt demolition was a step in the right direction and Brock showed his commitment to club last week. He needs his teammates to follow his example. We need some leadership both on and off the field (especially post Neitz). I've seen signs, but there's still a long way to go.

It's easy to talk about accepting mediocrity etc, but the fact of the matter is that we were missing almost half our best 22, and after moving on depth players at the end of last year and focussing on youth this year - to the detriment of Holland, Yze, etc - we were always going to have short-term pain.

Can you explain what you mean by your implication that we're accepting something less than winning? How would we go about not accepting the loss last night?

I support the broad direction we're going in terms of list management, and recognise that there will be more low points ahead.

That's my point though. Even our Best 22 still does not have that Win at all costs Culture.

Last Year Round 5 Geelong Found it. After 44 Years of Being "The Hand Bags" Geelong changed.

Whatever they discovered we to must find it

Through parts of 2004-06, Mfc were not soft. The first half of these seasons Melbourne earned back respect from playing tough uncompromising footy only to shoot themselves in the foot come the finish of those home and away seasons in losing the double chance before the finals and finishing in positions 6-8.

This must be pointed out, you can't wipe off a whole decade as simply soft. For the record 1998, 2000 and 2002 the Demons weren't too bad either.

2004 Round 18 we were on top of the ladder. What Happenned after that? We Choked and lost everything there on and were out week 1 of the Finals. Not Good Enough.

2006 we lost to Carlton TWICE when they were absolute Crap. That's weak and Not Good enough

Is it our Facilities? Do our Guys do enough weight Training? I like Brad Green but Friday night he got Murdered when it was a perfect time for him to go flat out. He was pushed out of the way like a schoolboy.

There were people on level 2 MCC near where i was sitting Clapping the team at the end of the Game. That's what i call accepting mediocraty! I was appalled at that. Friday was unacceptable.

I would have been embarassed to be clapped off after that performance.

I would have been embarassed to be clapped off after that performance.

Exactly! And the club has been paying 100% of the salary Cap. Adem Yze is being payed 450k to represent Sandy FFS and people wonder why our club is regarded as a joke.

Things Must Change & Fast

2004 Round 18 we were on top of the ladder. What Happenned after that? We Choked and lost everything there on and were out week 1 of the Finals. Not Good Enough.

2006 we lost to Carlton TWICE when they were absolute Crap. That's weak and Not Good enough

Thanks for the trip down memory lane, but you missed my point. <_<

Exactly! And the club has been paying 100% of the salary Cap.

Injury payments would have had a bit to do with that, but I see your point.

I imagine that whoever signed up Yze on his current contract is now gone.

Stynes doesn't come across as the sort of guy who accepts mediocrity when you read his book, 'Whatever It Takes'.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane, but you missed my point. <_<

I think 'why you little' nailed it - while your assertion is that we were respected, we didn't have the winning culture that 'why you little' bemoans the lack of. He's pointed out salient reasons why - ie. our capitulation to Carlton, twice.

Through parts of 2004-06, Mfc were not soft. The first half of these seasons Melbourne earned back respect from playing tough uncompromising footy only to shoot themselves in the foot come the finish of those home and away seasons in losing the double chance before the finals and finishing in positions 6-8.

This must be pointed out, you can't wipe off a whole decade as simply soft. For the record 1998, 2000 and 2002 the Demons weren't too bad either.

I did see yor point, but with all respect i don't agree with it. A football season is for 22 weeks and finals. To get in a winning position and fall over near the line is no way to earn respect.

It's happening to the Bulldogs right now and i don't respect them. They will be out of the Finals in straight sets.

...... Adem Yze is being payed 450k to represent Sandy FFS and people wonder why our club is regarded as a joke.

Where did that figure come from? The contract Yze is currently on is incentive based - there was a fair bit of carry-on at the time of signing. I doubt he'd be getting anywhere near $450K.

For starters, let's not appoint a captain who has been a party to our soft culture over the last decade especially.

That means no Bruce, JMac or even Green. Let's give it to Brock and let him be the leader of our core young group of players coming through.

We've cleared out the coaches, we are slowly getting rid of those players and now we can take the next step and appoint a new captain who will see us to a new culture at the club.

I agree with your sentiments 'Jerry Lundergard', accept to say that JMac has, to my knowledge, never been 'soft'.

How about Jmac & miller as co leaders for JMac's last season, with Green as v,c with Brock. Let green & brock prove themselves worthy next year as one good season doesn't make captain material, I'd like to see some continuous leadership displayed by both these vice captains.

Please NO PHYSICALLY SOFT OUTSIDE players as captain.

PS: We must look at the Cats team makeup & the Lions premiership teams to see that physical size/strength & aggressive style play is the way to win premierships, not flashy looking types of players.

Where did that figure come from? The contract Yze is currently on is incentive based - there was a fair bit of carry-on at the time of signing. I doubt he'd be getting anywhere near $450K.

To be Honest i do not know the exact figure, but i do know that when Carlton were sniffing hard for him a few years back he was put on a very comfy wicket. If my assumption is way off i apologize but my point is that from now on we need to get at least some value for many of our signings, yes it's a contact sport and looking into the Future Crystal Ball is not possible. I wish all players were on no more than 2 year deals-Keep them Hungry & Striving.

Long Contracts make for Fat more lazy cats. Alistair Lynch was an exception not the rule!

I did see yor point, but with all respect i don't agree with it. A football season is for 22 weeks and finals. To get in a winning position and fall over near the line is no way to earn respect.[/color]It's happening to the Bulldogs right now and i don't respect them. They will be out of the Finals in straight sets.

Just for the record this was my point, "This must be pointed out, you can't wipe off a whole decade as simply soft.".

And I agree with your reply and what is highlighted. I just want to be clear that in the last decade there has been some exciting footy played by the Dees at various times, and in those times we have been the envy of other clubs in the way we went about our footy at times. Ie 2000.

Just for the record this was my point, "This must be pointed out, you can't wipe off a whole decade as simply soft.".

And I agree with your reply and what is highlighted. I just want to be clear that in the last decade there has been some exciting footy played by the Dees at various times, and in those times we have been the envy of other clubs in the way we went about our footy at times. Ie 2000.

In the 2000 GF we were totally outclassed and uncompetitive. Sadly that's what other clubs and supporters remember.

1983 Essendon got done by Hawthorn by some 83 points (A huge Margin) but came back to win Back to Back in 84-5. against Hawthorn. They Did not accept losing.

In 2001 we fell in a big hole. Why?

I'd much rather see a thread that makes an attempt to think of ideas on how to fix this cultural problem.

Stating we have a soft culture will not harden the culture amongst the team, or amongst its supporters.

WCE got done by 135 points by the Cats this year, they'll be back. Friday night was atrocious, but there are steps in place to make our team competitive week in week out. You have to be patient. You cannot expect a team of 12 year olds to suddenly change 44 years of soft culture.

How can we, as supporters, develop a strong collective unit of supporters? That's what we should be attempting to do.

And I'll clap my team off whenever they come off the field if I feel our club is headed in the right direction. I feel it's a part of building a strong team, a team that knows it has it's fans onside. A team that knows their supporters won't enjoy the wins against Brisbane, and then ignore them after the embarrassing defeats that echo throughout the whole club

Bailey must to at least 2 things at the end of the year. First he must sack Meeson and Carroll they are a joke. Secondly and most importantly they must go for a young captain. He must show that our youngsters will get rewarded, there is no use selling our youth policy and then make either Green, Bruce or McDonald captain when the will have to give the captaincy back shortly anyway. Our youngsters must lead and there is no better way than giving a young player the captaincy. McLean should be captain or co captain with Miller. Bailey made a big mistake allowing Neitz to hold on to the captaincy he shouldn't make the same mistake again.

McLean should be captain or co captain with Miller. Bailey made a big mistake allowing Neitz to hold on to the captaincy he shouldn't make the same mistake again.

I'd much rather see a thread that makes an attempt to think of ideas on how to fix this cultural problem.

Stating we have a soft culture will not harden the culture amongst the team, or amongst its supporters.

WCE got done by 135 points by the Cats this year, they'll be back. Friday night was atrocious, but there are steps in place to make our team competitive week in week out. You have to be patient. You cannot expect a team of 12 year olds to suddenly change 44 years of soft culture.

How can we, as supporters, develop a strong collective unit of supporters? That's what we should be attempting to do.

And I'll clap my team off whenever they come off the field if I feel our club is headed in the right direction. I feel it's a part of building a strong team, a team that knows it has it's fans onside. A team that knows their supporters won't enjoy the wins against Brisbane, and then ignore them after the embarrassing defeats that echo throughout the whole club

I will clap my team when i know they have given there all for our great Jumper, By applauding that performance last friday you are saying it is acceptable, that i cannot agree with. This is not a new problem.

The First Game of the Demons i watched was Round 1 1971 against South Melbourne, we killed 'em. But in all that time Melbourne have never been Feared. I can cop a loss, like the week before- the Team had a real crack, But not Friday night. That was Prime Time around Australia. Game started at 7.05 white Flags Raised by 7.10

This is not a new Problem at all. Its just never been properly addressed

I never said it was a new problem.

But fear is about perception. We are not a big club, we have not won a premiership in over 40 years, we have a poor membership record, we will not be feared until these things are fixed.

Since i've been watching footy, at various times these teams have been better than us but i have feared them, the Saints, Dogs, Hawks, Roos, Cats. Yet teams like the Bombers, Blues, Pies and to a lesser extent the Tigers always command respect not because of the waythey play footy, but the presence of their brand and supporter group.

Obviously winning a premiership is probably the only way a team can become feared, but it has much more to do with perception than reality. The Magpies can drag 60,000 to away matches and have people think they're a powerful club, yet play mediocre footy, because of their perception.

I never said it was a new problem.

But fear is about perception. We are not a big club, we have not won a premiership in over 40 years, we have a poor membership record, we will not be feared until these things are fixed.

Since i've been watching footy, at various times these teams have been better than us but i have feared them, the Saints, Dogs, Hawks, Roos, Cats. Yet teams like the Bombers, Blues, Pies and to a lesser extent the Tigers always command respect not because of the waythey play footy, but the presence of their brand and supporter group.

Obviously winning a premiership is probably the only way a team can become feared, but it has much more to do with perception than reality. The Magpies can drag 60,000 to away matches and have people think they're a powerful club, yet play mediocre footy, because of their perception.

Richmond have not held any respect since 1982, There position is very similiar to ours (Which is probably what worries me) Wallace has done Bugger all to gain respect in 4 years, and i am sure he has worked hard to try.

Don't think for a moment i am walking away from this club, but Last Friday i spent about $100 getting to & From the Game, Food Drinks etc and i will not accept that effort.

Football is a tough Contact Sport and the players are well paid to cover that. They know what is in store for them.

The Bottom line is "what was said & Done behind closed Doors at Kardinia Park over the off season of 2006-7" whatever it was, it worked