I actually feel like we are in with a good chance this week..

Bar the first quarter, we did ok up there, and I really sense a win is close..

If Colin Garland goes to Bradshaw, Warnock to Brown, there are a few other key Match-ups..

We need someone to play as a defensive forward on Joel Macdonald, he really gives them alot of drive and is a real link up player for them, Perhaps Dunn, who is a similiar size, can go with him.. unless he's sent to trapper..who clearly does not like being tagged, thats if he plays!

Play PJ @ CHF, Miller out of the Square..

Who will go with Power and/or Black??

I feel Bartram should go with Power or Black, probably Black.. Leave Power to his devices..

Jamar/White really need to get back and plug the whole if were a chance..

Maybe Bruce could go with trapper..

The lions are a very physical side, so if we can run hard, absorb the pressure early, I think were a show!

As for changes, I can only see maybe this:

Out: Bode

In: Morton

But who knows..

Dream on Nudge.

I don't know about everyone else here, but I've had enough of winning for the moment. If Wet Toast and the Shockers bag another W I might re-appraise the situation, but right now winning is not the best outcome for us. I want competitive efforts but I won't be remotely peeved if we don't get the chocolates.

Yeah the backline is really the key.

Warnock will do the job on Brown im confident, but he will need help from defenders like Whelan etc pushing across.

Alot of Powers possesions are either 15-25 metre kicks which dont have the damaging pentration of Black so I agree with that move.

We also need to utilise the foot skills of Chris Johnson, Paul Wheatley & Cam Bruce on the rebound rather than Bartram, Whelan when were on the counter.

Yeah the backline is really the key.

Warnock will do the job on Brown im confident, but he will need help from defenders like Whelan etc pushing across.

Alot of Powers possesions are either 15-25 metre kicks which dont have the damaging pentration of Black so I agree with that move.

We also need to utilise the foot skills of Chris Johnson, Paul Wheatley & Cam Bruce on the rebound rather than Bartram, Whelan when were on the counter.

I don't know about everyone else here, but I've had enough of winning for the moment. but right now winning is not the best outcome for us.

Thanks Diablo- Those are my thoughts to. I dont want to win at the moment, cause i dont want to jepodise our draft picks

Out: Bode

In: Morton

But who knows..

out: Bode, in: Valenti

Dream on Nudge.

I don't know about everyone else here, but I've had enough of winning for the moment. If Wet Toast and the Shockers bag another W I might re-appraise the situation, but right now winning is not the best outcome for us. I want competitive efforts but I won't be remotely peeved if we don't get the chocolates.

I dont need to tell any1 whats wrong with that statement..

i know what you are saying, but there are better ways to articulate your point...

A win is good for the club, no matter what..

We have the no1 pick sewn up mate, relax!!!

I still wanna see us win, im sure you do 2, you need some postives to encourage progress..

we are a chance, and im hoping we win, what type of supporters try and make me feel bad about that, PATHETIC!!

Dream on Nudge.

I don't know about everyone else here, but I've had enough of winning for the moment. If Wet Toast and the Shockers bag another W I might re-appraise the situation, but right now winning is not the best outcome for us. I want competitive efforts but I won't be remotely peeved if we don't get the chocolates.

Couldn't disagree more. Being competitive/winning is everything. A winning/competitive culture is what will make this club rise again.

Couldn't disagree more. Being competitive/winning is everything. A winning/competitive culture is what will make this club rise again.

Exactly!

Of course im aware of our situation, but winning is what footy is about, I could never, nor would I ever actually cheer for us to lose, no matter what, its just not in me, I always want to win.. If we get polaxed every week, it means no draft pick is going to help us!!

Im not sure about the rest of you, but yeah, after we lose, knowing the situation eases the pain, however its not ever going to make me WANT US 2 lose, just not in my mental psyche to think that way!!

The only way we'll even come close is if I get very very drunk with Jonathan Brown on Saturday night...

In: Morton

Out: Bode

I'd bring in Bell if there were any injuries to a defender, and Yze for a small player.

Nudge, you sound like Y-M's laconic christian alter ego.

Couldn't disagree more. Being competitive/winning is everything. A winning/competitive culture is what will make this club rise again.

There are two kinds of footy supporter, I reckon. One kind says this. The other engages his brain and realises that empty cliches like 'a winning culture' and 'having a red hot crack' are not the answer, enticing though they may seem to those looking for that impossible quick fix.

Whether you like it or not mate, we are a few cows short of a herd as it stands, and we still rely heavily on our older players to be genuinely competitive (although that situation is improving, I'm pleased to say), rather than our prime-aged players (of which we have very few).

There is diddly squat to be gained by finishing above last this year, apart from an intangible amount of pride. In the modern climate, I would have thought that pride would be more than eroded by the feeling of stupidity that the club and its supporters will feel if does itself out of the best youngster in the country for the sake of a meaningless win or two.

It's pretty simple really, all we have to do is shut down Brown, Black, Power, Bradshaw, and Johnstone. And then have McLean, Jones, Green, Bruce, and Bate play a ripper of a game. I would've thought that'd be obvious!

Seriously though, I'm looking for McLean to have a good one after last week. He was very well held by a more experienced player in Kirk, so if we can get him feeding out the ball to OUR players hopefully we can push them. Ultimately what i want is for us to have a dip from the start and follow it through to the end. It really annoys me that teams are able to win the game through 15-20 minutes of good football, our young players, and young coach, need to learn how to put a halt to those blitzes.

And for the love of god, can someone do SOMETHING about our kickins!

There are two kinds of footy supporter, I reckon. One kind says this. The other engages his brain and realises that empty cliches like 'a winning culture' and 'having a red hot crack' are not the answer, enticing though they may seem to those looking for that impossible quick fix.

Whilst i do agree with ur sentiment Diablo, i tend to sway between these 2 camps.

After all, while we do need quality kidz at our club, there is NO proof to ever suggest number 1 picks translate to premiership. Saints failed dismally despite close to a dozen top 5 draft picks. How good would the hawks really be had they picked Sylvia and Farren Ray instead of Roughead and Franklin. Alot of drafting is about luck.

We are guerenteed a top 3 pick this year, and a priority pick also. That is enough to get us some great talent.

Pick 7 can get you Joel Selwood or Rys Palmer. Pick 8 can get u Jimmy Bartel.

While pick 3 can get you Farren Ray, Colin Sylvia or Aaron Fiora (decent but not superstar players.)

The point is... let's get some top draft picks!!! but lets not forget the big picture, that picks dont equal success. A win or two here or there is GREAT for the young players development

There are two kinds of footy supporter, I reckon. One kind says this. The other engages his brain and realises that empty cliches like 'a winning culture' and 'having a red hot crack' are not the answer, enticing though they may seem to those looking for that impossible quick fix.

Whether you like it or not mate, we are a few cows short of a herd as it stands, and we still rely heavily on our older players to be genuinely competitive (although that situation is improving, I'm pleased to say), rather than our prime-aged players (of which we have very few).

There is diddly squat to be gained by finishing above last this year, apart from an intangible amount of pride. In the modern climate, I would have thought that pride would be more than eroded by the feeling of stupidity that the club and its supporters will feel if does itself out of the best youngster in the country for the sake of a meaningless win or two.

on the other side of the coin there have been teams throughout history that have had the cattle without the culture and failed to win a flag. And there have been some seemingly average teams win flags for the opposite reason.

reason and history dictates that the best chance of winning a flag is clever recruiting and building a winning/competitive mentality. What is that you suggest the coach does with the players, advise them not to try? play them out of position? how would that aid thier development looking forward?

If we were to tank as you suggest what would be the strategy to make this happen without damaging the development, confidence and mindset of the players?

beating brisbane is a lot simpler than what people have written here...

we simply need to play 4 quarters... if we can play 4 quarters, not 2 or 2 and a half then we're a massive chance... we can't afford to give away a start like the one on sunday... if we're competitive for the entire game, then we won't be far off the mark...

on the other side of the coin there have been teams throughout history that have had the cattle without the culture and failed to win a flag. And there have been some seemingly average teams win flags for the opposite reason.

reason and history dictates that the best chance of winning a flag is clever recruiting and building a winning/competitive mentality. What is that you suggest the coach does with the players, advise them not to try? play them out of position? how would that aid thier development looking forward?

If we were to tank as you suggest what would be the strategy to make this happen without damaging the development, confidence and mindset of the players?

I'm not suggesting we play to the point where all semblance of the contest vanishes. I'm advocating our current approach. Keep persisting with the guys who haven't had the opportunity before. I don't see the need to go above and beyond to win games. It shouldn't be our focus at present. What should be our focus is getting game time into younger and fringe players so that they might prove themselves. Being competitive is what we, as a club, should be striving for. At the moment it serves us best. It's not the best position to be in, I concede, but fighting losses are the best result in any given match for the rest of 2008.

Are people so worried that we'll never win again if we bomb the rest of the season? Surely you see enough to like about our younger players to keep you coming back, in spite of the losses. I don't need token wins now to see that the club is going places in the next 2-3 years.

Perhaps we'll toss a ball and check what side it lands on to see who's right ?

You all are. The cattle isn't there. A winning culture is required. So are four quarters. Draft picks for the win (hopefully?). We have to be smart.

As a coach, Bailey is surely (I'm convinced) on the win what you can (read - aim for), consolidate (keyword), then aim higher mindset.

That, including tactical progression, is what it's all about. Kickins? Eh, they're the cherry on top, and a key to playmaking.

But we don't need to show our hand yet. Work it the hard way til you learn before finessing.

There are further fundamentals still to be worked on and worked into the youth.

On topic: Valenti in, Jamar out. Morton unlucky. Honourable loss.

Ed: WC is 4 points clear Rogue, but it's getting tighter

Valenti's got to be close to getting a run.

I'm not sure Bode will be persisted with.

I still wanna see us win, im sure you do 2, you need some postives to encourage progress..

You don't need a win to show positives.

I've seen plenty of positives this season, and we've only had one win (and that was only two quarters of decent football).

We have the no1 pick sewn up mate, relax!!!

Sewn up?

We're on the same number of wins as WCE [edit: if we win this week, as you're advocating], and with virtually the same percentage after Geelong's astounding winning margin last week.

I'm not suggesting we play to the point where all semblance of the contest vanishes. I'm advocating our current approach. Keep persisting with the guys who haven't had the opportunity before. I don't see the need to go above and beyond to win games. It shouldn't be our focus at present. What should be our focus is getting game time into younger and fringe players so that they might prove themselves. Being competitive is what we, as a club, should be striving for. At the moment it serves us best. It's not the best position to be in, I concede, but fighting losses are the best result in any given match for the rest of 2008.

Are people so worried that we'll never win again if we bomb the rest of the season? Surely you see enough to like about our younger players to keep you coming back, in spite of the losses. I don't need token wins now to see that the club is going places in the next 2-3 years.

Nice back-tracking there..

Just admit you were wrong..

Footy is as much mental than physical, more.. The point is, this group needs to know how to win, they need to taste it, yes play the kids, no one is saying not too, all im saying is, I never really want us to lose, that to me is not in me, thats all, its not a decision, i just cant do it..

Yeah, i hope we finish 16th, which we will, but id like to do it winning 3 or 4 games, and being competitive in the others, you want some sort of confidence in the playing group come next year!!

We are guaranteed a top 2pick, 90% of pick 1..

Its not like im hoping we win 6 or 7 and shoot ourselves in the foot, cause that wont happen, no chance!!

Valenti's got to be close to getting a run.

I'm not sure Bode will be persisted with.

You don't need a win to show positives.

I've seen plenty of positives this season, and we've only had one win (and that was only two quarters of decent football).

Sewn up?

We're on the same number of wins as WCE, and with virtually the same percentage after Geelong's astounding winning margin last week.

Same points as WCE eh??

nice to know you really do know your stuff!!

Im not going to say I feel stupid or guilty hoping we get a win or 2!

JESUS!! how many games of footy did u ever play??? not many obviously!!!

Christ!! All im saying is I hope we put in a good show this week, and think we might be value at the bloody tote!!

SIMPLE!!!! JEEEZ..

Same points as WCE eh??

nice to know you really do know your stuff!!

Christ!! All im saying is I hope we put in a good show this week, and think we might be value at the bloody tote!!

We will be if we win this week, like you want.

JESUS!! how many games of footy did u ever play??? not many obviously!!!

Ah, that old chestnut - relevance zero (but the answer is lots).

Haha:

Nice back-tracking there..

[...]

We are guaranteed a top 2pick, 90% of pick 1..

The only back-tracking I see is yours. I thought you said pick #1 was sewn up!

We have the no1 pick sewn up mate, relax!!!

Yep, you did.

Nice back-tracking there..

Just admit you were wrong..

Footy is as much mental than physical, more.. The point is, this group needs to know how to win, they need to taste it, yes play the kids, no one is saying not too, all im saying is, I never really want us to lose, that to me is not in me, thats all, its not a decision, i just cant do it..

Yeah, i hope we finish 16th, which we will, but id like to do it winning 3 or 4 games, and being competitive in the others, you want some sort of confidence in the playing group come next year!!

We are guaranteed a top 2pick, 90% of pick 1..

Its not like im hoping we win 6 or 7 and shoot ourselves in the foot, cause that wont happen, no chance!!

Perhaps you are dyslexic. I don't think I've gone back on what I said in the slightest. I simply put it another way. I want us to be competitive, but winning serves no real purpose, other than to pump up a few tyres (which will deflate over the off-season anyway). And I'm pretty sure that in my first post I inferred (perhaps that was my mistake) that I would be delighted to win more games if we were able to keep a hold of the bottom spot.

You are qualifying your own point of view, so don't suggest I'm backing down when I do the same. My point remains that winning does us little good. Again, fighting losses are the best outcome, unless the ladder situation changes.

The crows left Power to his devices....all 40 of them.

stupid comment that, play Lions, must tag power and black.