Anyone for cricket?

[45HG 1,539]

For a guy with pretensions of being Aust Captain, he needs to change his ways. His batting at times reeks of class but not leadership. I thought he had turned the corner during the Ashes. He has lapsed since.

In the 4 innings he's played since?

That have yielded a 41 in an absolute thrashing, a 71 and a 61 not out and then this poor innings.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

In the 4 innings he's played since?

That have yielded a 41 in an absolute thrashing, a 71 and a 61 not out and then this poor innings.

He has played a cherry ripe batting strips against an overall mundane attacks. His dismissals have been soft in 3 knocks.

In England he played some truly good innings. Tough concentrated battles.

The bat has dominated the ball in this series and he should have really cashed in. I wonder if his back is really right ATM?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

He hasn't played any T20 games either. Oops

You also said Smith is seen as a future prospect but more of a batsman. I contend that White fits that bill (and he has great ODI form, which apparently matters more than Shield).

With a name like Smith its easy to be confused!

I agree about White. A big knock away from the big time IMO

Shield wickets @ average this season (career average) for selected spinners (and some part-time spinners):

Adam Voges 4 @ 26 (35) //has represented Australia in 7 ODIs and 4 T20's from 2007 to 2009

Steve O'Keefe 3 @ 34 (33)

Bryce McGain 13 @ 34 (36) //represented Australia in 1 Test 2008

Beau Casson 2 @ 35 (43) //represented Australia in 1 Test 2008

Dan Marsh 5 @ 35 (45)

Marcus North 8 @ 35 (42) //season figures includes Tests

Aaron O'Brien 12 @ 42 (50)

Steven Smith 3 @ 45 (75)

Jason Krezja 13 @ 47 (48) //represented Australia in 2 Tests 2008

Cullen Bailey 5 @ 50 (44) //2007-08 CA contract

Fwiw, here are the 'list-A' wickets and averages of some spinners this season (and some part-time spinners):

Chris Simpson 8 @ 30

Bryce McGain 4 @ 33

Aaron O'Brien 6 @ 34

Aaron Heal 6 @ 34

Marcus North 3 @ 37

Steven Smith 7 @ 38

Jason Krezja 3 @ 72

Great stats.

Shows a couple of things....

1. There isn't a frontline spinner in Australia that is regularly taking wickets.

2. Krejza and McGain are the best but not compelling cases.

3. Smith got selected because he was from NSW....of course :D

[45HG 1,539]

He has played a cherry ripe batting strips against an overall mundane attacks. His dismissals have been soft in 3 knocks.

In England he played some truly good innings. Tough concentrated battles.

Exactly the reasons I cannot agree that he has "lapsed."

Pretty fickle assessment IMO if you can say he turned the corner in the heat of an Ashes battle than claim he has lapsed basically because of how he got out - especially on the basis of 4 innings

[Rogue 585]

Great stats.

Shows a couple of things....

I think the stats indicate that McGain deserves to be the next cab off the rank.

I also agree that Smith's selection seems unwarranted.

PS. Maybe you're remembering Smith from the Champions League 20/20 games?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I think the stats indicate that McGain deserves to be the next cab off the rank.

Best of a not so good lot. He really choked at Test level.

PS. Maybe you're remembering Smith from the Champions League 20/20 games?

Ping. That's it and I recall a 774 discussion where there was a lengthy piece on Smith where he is highly rated.

Exactly the reasons I cannot agree that he has "lapsed."

Pretty fickle assessment IMO if you can say he turned the corner in the heat of an Ashes battle than claim he has lapsed basically because of how he got out - especially on the basis of 4 innings

I am not writing him off at all. I highly rate him but the steel and resolve he showed in the Ashes has not been evidence here. If played more than 4 innings in this series I would rate him on all those.

I just think this series is an absolute dream come true for batsmen. A player of Clarkes calibre should be readily turning double figure scores into serious 100s. Good batsman cash in on these situations because they know there will be tougher days. Ponting has always been good at this but this innings excluded, he has not been as his best this series. Maybe WYL's sledging is getting to him?

As an aside, its pity the media got hooked on the pathetic tantrum of Benn. A storm in a teacup. It has unduly detracted from a masterpiece of a knock from Chris Gayle. Such sublime power. However his dismissal shows the fine line between brilliance and buffoonery with Calypso batting. A terrible way to go.

He frustrated me early in the series but so far he is my cricketer of the summer thus far with two great knocks.

[H_T 3,043]

To me it sounds like you're describing someone else

Ponting ?

Shield wickets @ average this season (career average) for selected spinners (and some part-time spinners):

Adam Voges 4 @ 26 (35) //has represented Australia in 7 ODIs and 4 T20's from 2007 to 2009

Steve O'Keefe 3 @ 34 (33)

Bryce McGain 13 @ 34 (36) //represented Australia in 1 Test 2008

Beau Casson 2 @ 35 (43) //represented Australia in 1 Test 2008

Dan Marsh 5 @ 35 (45)

Marcus North 8 @ 35 (42) //season figures includes Tests

Aaron O'Brien 12 @ 42 (50)

Steven Smith 3 @ 45 (75)

Jason Krezja 13 @ 47 (48) //represented Australia in 2 Tests 2008

Cullen Bailey 5 @ 50 (44) //2007-08 CA contract

Fwiw, here are the 'list-A' wickets and averages of some spinners this season (and some part-time spinners):

Chris Simpson 8 @ 30

Bryce McGain 4 @ 33

Aaron O'Brien 6 @ 34

Aaron Heal 6 @ 34

Marcus North 3 @ 37

Steven Smith 7 @ 38

Jason Krezja 3 @ 72

Thanks for the stat input. McGain & Krejza look to be the next cabs in the rank for Test Spinner...although who does Simpson represent, I'm unfamiliar with him ?

In England he played some truly good innings. Tough concentrated battles.

Clarke did concentrate for long periods in England. However, he still lost concentration on occassions in England.

I was watching a replay the other night when he scored 136 (Ashes; England). He went out to Swann bowled, played all over it and missed it completely (fullish delivery), which was on the following morning. His concentration still waivers as it did then. Usually he is a good player of spin too.

This series should be an absolute dream for Australian batsmen. Brisbane, Adelaide & Perth against the West Indies. How no one has a century to their name is unforgiveable.

Australia's innings was the 2nd highest score posted without a member of the team recording three figures. (There's one for you 45HG16).

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Clarke did concentrate for long periods in England. However, he still lost concentration on occassions in England.

I was watching a replay the other night when he scored 136 (Ashes; England). He went out to Swann bowled, played all over it and missed it completely (fullish delivery), which was on the following morning. His concentration still waivers as it did then. Usually he is a good player of spin too.

This series should be an absolute dream for Australian batsmen. Brisbane, Adelaide & Perth against the West Indies. How no one has a century to their name is unforgiveable.

Australia's innings was the 2nd highest score posted without a member of the team recording three figures. (There's one for you 45HG16).

In England Clarke against better bowling on more difficult pitches knocked up 445 runs in the series at 64 with 2 centuries. He was our premier bat there.

If he showed the same application here in a batting paradise that he showed there he should be dominating and needs to be if he has aspirations of captaincy. How much better is WI when Gales leads with the bat?

[H_T 3,043]

How much better is WI when Gales leads with the bat?

He certainly doesn't waste time at the crease. I know it's his natural game but I wonder how many runs he and his side would make, if he actually occupied the crease for a lot longer than a mere ~70 balls.

edit: With respect to Gayle. It's either fortunate or unfortunate that he plays his normal game (ie Twenty20 style) in a Test. If you know what I mean. Good to be scoring high scores and magnificent innings for WI, but he could do more by spending more time out in the middle.

Was listening to 774 when he was batting to Bollinger. He clipped him for 6 off his pads effortlessly, Jim Maxwell described it "like knocking the top off a hard boiled egg at the breakfast table"....good description.

Edited December 18, 2009 by High Tower

[H_T 3,043]

Can the Windies do it ? Will be interesting to see what happens to Australian selections for Boxing Day Test.

[titan_uranus 24,975]

51 runs with 1 wicket remaining. Should be an interesting session. You'd think we'd take the wicket pretty quickly, especially if Johnson and Hauritz have gotten better. Johnson especially.

As for Boxing Day, there are a number of possibilities. One is to bring in Hughes, and drop Watson down to 6, pushing North to 5 and Clarke to 3. I think this might be the outcome. Another option is to play Hughes and drop Katich to 3. Unlikely I would have thought. We could also bring in George Bailey or Cameron White to 6, North to 5 and Clarke to 3.

[45HG 1,539]

This article pretty much summed up my feelings towards Watson's performance.

[H_T 3,043]

May I echo 45HG's feelings towards Watson's childish behavour.

Ricky Ponting blasts bad behaviour - Robert Craddock & Ben Dorries (Herald-Sun)

Little surprised The Age and The Australian haven't had any focus on the childish behaviour of Watson. Pleased the Australian commentators had no time for what Watson did.

edit:

Correction: - Ponting to call on team to behave - The Age

Edited December 20, 2009 by High Tower

[titan_uranus 24,975]

I reckon a good way to punish Watson would be to demote him down the order in the event that Ponting can't play. Drop Watson to 6, bring Hughes in.

And there's going to be a massive decision with regards to the pace bowling line up. It seems that Hilfenhaus and Siddle will be fit for Boxing Day. But Bollinger was almost man of the match in Perth. I'd play Siddle and Bollinger, and ensure that Hilfenhaus gets properly fit and plays some cricket for Tasmania.

Edited December 20, 2009 by titan_uranus

[titan_uranus 24,975]

Good article from Ian Chappell about the current standings in Test cricket:

http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/440349.html

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I reckon a good way to punish Watson would be to demote him down the order in the event that Ponting can't play. Drop Watson to 6, bring Hughes in.

Yes lets punish him for his bowling antics by breaking up what has been a strength for the team. That makes sense.

The punishment should be specific to the crime. His behaviour was embarrassing and unnecessary. He should have been fined more heavily and possibly suspended if it had been worse.

If Ponting cant play then I would pick either Klinger or Hughes to play or elevate Hussey for one test to No 3 and pick a middle order batsman. He aint making runs at 4 he may as well perform at 3 in final summer in Australia. If Hughes plays push be push Watson to 3. If Klinger plays I would play the SA at 3.

And there's going to be a massive decision with regards to the pace bowling line up. It seems that Hilfenhaus and Siddle will be fit for Boxing Day. But Bollinger was almost man of the match in Perth. I'd play Siddle and Bollinger, and ensure that Hilfenhaus gets properly fit and plays some cricket for Tasmania.

I would get either Hilf or Siddle a rest depending on who is the least fit. Bollinger plays and so does Johnson.

I would not advocate 4 quicks but Hauritz is about at useful as a wet match.

Good point about the standings. Jim Maxwell said he did not think its been that open at the top since 1974 before Australia and then the WI dominated cricket.

[Nasher 33,607]

Klinger?! George Bailey anyone?

If Ponting's out then it has to be Phil Hughes in, but it poses a problem as to how to jig the batting line-up. I'd be reluctant to mess with the opening partnership as Katich and Watson are starting to get runs on the board now, but Hughes is clearly the next best batsman in the country. A dilemma.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Klinger?! George Bailey anyone?

If Ponting's out then it has to be Phil Hughes in, but it poses a problem as to how to jig the batting line-up. I'd be reluctant to mess with the opening partnership as Katich and Watson are starting to get runs on the board now, but Hughes is clearly the next best batsman in the country. A dilemma.

Spoken like a true Tasmanian!!

[Nasher 33,607]

I'm trying my hardest not to be biassed, but in my head I'm saying Bailey should definitely be in, Hilfy ahead of Siddle without question and Brett Geeves should have been playing ahead of Clint McKay :D

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I'm trying my hardest not to be biassed, but in my head I'm saying Bailey should definitely be in, Hilfy ahead of Siddle without question and Brett Geeves should have been playing ahead of Clint McKay :D

George Bailey is a fair call and a worthy consideration.

But not Geeves over our boy McKay. B)

[H_T 3,043]

I'm trying my hardest not to be biassed, but in my head I'm saying Bailey should definitely be in, Hilfy ahead of Siddle without question and Brett Geeves should have been playing ahead of Clint McKay :D

I agree in Bailey. You also have a case for Hilfy thanks to his swing. Not sure about Geeves though.

[Nasher 33,607]

All bias aside, I feel Hilfenhaus will come in ahead of Siddle if they're both fit. Hughes ahead of Bailey as he's been scoring runs for longer. Any merit to Hughes batting in the middle order, or at three?

The McKay vs Geeves argument is completely moot since they're both going to be behind Hilfenhaus, Johnson, Siddle and Bollinger.

[H_T 3,043]

All bias aside, I feel Hilfenhaus will come in ahead of Siddle if they're both fit. Hughes ahead of Bailey as he's been scoring runs for longer. Any merit to Hughes batting in the middle order, or at three?

If Hughes were to come in, I'd bite the bullet and let him open with Katich and put Watson down the order. But that's me, others will disagree with that.

What I would like to see (not necessarily for Melbourne; but in the not too distant future): -

Hughes

Katich

Ponting

Clarke

Bailey

Watson

Haddin

Holland

Johnson

Hilfenhaus

Bollinger

[titan_uranus 24,975]

Hilfenhaus looks set to miss the rest of the summer now. Not good. But at least that keeps Siddle in the team...

Yes lets punish him for his bowling antics by breaking up what has been a strength for the team. That makes sense.

OK, but then you say:

If Hughes plays push be push Watson to 3. If Klinger plays I would play the SA at 3.

So you're OK with Watson being moved down the order...

If Ponting doesn't come up (which I think he will), then Hughes comes in. Unless the selectors want to try something drastic, they're going to move either Watson or Katich out of the opening positions and play Hughes as an opener. I would have thought that Watson, to ease the load on him with his bowling, would be a prime candidate to move down the order. Incorporated into that is a bit of punishment for his antics.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Hilfenhaus looks set to miss the rest of the summer now. Not good. But at least that keeps Siddle in the team...

OK, but then you say:

So you're OK with Watson being moved down the order...

If Ponting doesn't come up (which I think he will), then Hughes comes in. Unless the selectors want to try something drastic, they're going to move either Watson or Katich out of the opening positions and play Hughes as an opener. I would have thought that Watson, to ease the load on him with his bowling, would be a prime candidate to move down the order. Incorporated into that is a bit of punishment for his antics.

I think your premise for pushing Watson down the order is wrong. There are more appropriate means of punishment for misbehaviour. And I dont think pushing someone down the order is indeed a punishment but more a measure of team balance. And Watson is hardly physical straining under the bowling demands so far. It is likely we will play Siddle, Bolly and Johnson so I dont think Watson will be overbowled. It might also be a thought about Hughes batting at 3.

Its an interesting one if Ponting does not come up. A real test for Michael Clarke as Captain.