So you want your Country to lose ! Will you want the Demons to lose if we start winning again ? Your comment must be tongue in cheek yeah ? Otherwise one of the most astonishing posts I have ever read .

Until the Cricket Australia Board get their shite together. i.e. install a commission that operates properly i can understand Chooks thinking.

Until the Cricket Australia Board get their shite together. i.e. install a commission that operates properly i can understand Chooks thinking.

Rubbish - you never ever barrack against your own Country - it's Un Australian !

Rubbish - you never ever barrack against your own Country - it's Un Australian !

I am not barracking against Australia...i want the Back room to shape up....they are over governed and hopeless...

They have a whole new selection committee. What exactly did you want to do to fix up CA?

Also, just to annoy you, are you aware that the probably next 3 test debutantes are going to be from NSW? Nothing to do with state bias, but rather because they are the best players in the pipeline

They have a whole new selection committee. What exactly did you want to do to fix up CA?

Also, just to annoy you, are you aware that the probably next 3 test debutantes are going to be from NSW? Nothing to do with state bias, but rather because they are the best players in the pipeline

i don't mind where players come from...but the Board are still way to Top Heavy...Yes i know about the selectors and that is good but it must go deeper.

Who was overseeing the side yesterday??? That was the worst day ever...to take control and then lose it within 40 minutes....i am glad my Grandad didn't see that!!!!

i don't mind where players come from...but the Board are still way to Top Heavy...Yes i know about the selectors and that is good but it must go deeper.

Who was overseeing the side yesterday??? That was the worst day ever...to take control and then lose it within 40 minutes....i am glad my Grandad didn't see that!!!!

Agreed , yesterday was woeful but change will happen

I tend to think that a few of the players were on their last chance in Sri Lanka and South Africa

To me it's more about injecting good young players into the team rather than administration issues .

We need to rebuild with youth - the Shield system is still first rate and there's plenty of good young talent around .

Agreed , yesterday was woeful but change will happen

I tend to think that a few of the players were on their last chance in Sri Lanka and South Africa

To me it's more about injecting good young players into the team rather than administration issues .

We need to rebuild with youth - the Shield system is still first rate and there's plenty of good young talent around .

hope you right because a ciry based 20/20 competition is only going to make it harder

i don't mind where players come from...but the Board are still way to Top Heavy...Yes i know about the selectors and that is good but it must go deeper.

Who was overseeing the side yesterday??? That was the worst day ever...to take control and then lose it within 40 minutes....i am glad my Grandad didn't see that!!!!

They are supposedly the best XI cricketers in the country and have a responsiblity to play properly. This is why Haddin should be dropped for all eternity, with Hughes, Johnson, and I hate to say it the legendary Ricky Ponting under extreme pressure. They don't need people to oversee the side. Anyway it was the batting that let them down which is purely an individual act. No one can make runs for you, you have to do it yourself.

They are supposedly the best XI cricketers in the country and have a responsiblity to play properly. This is why Haddin should be dropped for all eternity, with Hughes, Johnson, and I hate to say it the legendary Ricky Ponting under extreme pressure. They don't need people to oversee the side. Anyway it was the batting that let them down which is purely an individual act. No one can make runs for you, you have to do it yourself.

Good players still need a good coach. Adrenilen can get in the way.

Agreed , yesterday was woeful but change will happen

I tend to think that a few of the players were on their last chance in Sri Lanka and South Africa

To me it's more about injecting good young players into the team rather than administration issues .

We need to rebuild with youth - the Shield system is still first rate and there's plenty of good young talent around .

Lots of far more astute judges of the game then you and I agree with this sentiment, yet I strangely don't. I personally feel that it is the best XI cricketers in the country who should have the right to don the baggy green cap. I can understand people being too old but to me playing blokes just cause they are young seems irrational. Hughes being young is the only reason he is getting a game. Katich is far superior. Water always finds its level and the selectors need to start selecting players on performance

Good players still need a good coach. Adrenilen can get in the way.

I can't see your point

Lots of far more astute judges of the game then you and I agree with this sentiment, yet I strangely don't. I personally feel that it is the best XI cricketers in the country who should have the right to don the baggy green cap. I can understand people being too old but to me playing blokes just cause they are young seems irrational. Hughes being young is the only reason he is getting a game. Katich is far superior. Water always finds its level and the selectors need to start selecting players on performance

Cummins , Starc , Pattinson , Keith , Khawaja , Ferguson , Mitchell Marsh , Wade , Paine , Warner , Butterworth and lots more - If you know anything about Shield cricket you will know a bit about these players .

They just need opportunity - do you know much about the above players sd ?

Edit - Finch and Christian are a couple of other young blokes worth considering .

Warner was called up to the Sri Lankan Test tour when Ponting came home for the birth of his child - and he made 148 in 4 hours in his last shield game for NSW - he's not just a slogger .

Edited November 11, 201113 yr by Nuggets

I can't see your point

Then we must disagree. Did Melbourne have a coach in the 50's? Or Hawthorn in the 80's? They wer both champion sides who benefitted from coaching.

Cummins , Starc , Pattinson , Keith , Khawaja , Ferguson , Mitchell Marsh , Wade , Paine , Warner , Butterworth and lots more - If you know anything about Shield cricket you will know a bit about these players .

They just need opportunity - do you know much about the above players sd ?

Edit - Finch and Christian are a couple of other young blokes worth considering .

Warner was called up to the Sri Lankan Test tour when Ponting came home for the birth of his child - and he made 148 in 4 hours in his last shield game for NSW - he's not just a slogger .

I know all those players and they have some talent but are only young. I'm saying if the perform then they will be moved up the ranks. The fact of the matter is Matt Cosgrove made the most runs in the shield last year and I think Quiney made the second most believe it or not. No one really stood out with the bat. Khawja has made runs and has a good first class record and Pattinson has bowled well and has also good a record, hence why they have both been in the aussie squad. Ferguson only averages 34 in first class cricket so forget about him. Tim Paine has made only 1 first class ton so there are genuine question marks around him. Wade in my opinion is better.

Marsh and Cummins are only young and need to perform in first class cricket. Marsh took a 6 for which was good but he has got to keep performing and hopefully make some runs as well. Cummins has only played a few games of first class cricket and averages in the 40 with the ball. Has undoubtable talent though.

Warner is not a test quality batsman and will be found out against top sides. Admitedly he does play straighter then people think but one score is not the be all or end all. Tom Cooper made 98 and 200* in the same game and he is a journeyman. Look what Katich had to do get back in the test side after the 05 ashes, he had to set a record for most shield runs in a season to be recalled and flourished. It is a honor to play test cricket for Australia and it is not like AFL were you blood players. Look what happened to Smith and presently to Hughes as they have been exposed. Shaun Marsh had 10 years first class cricket were in only the last 2 or 3 years he made serious runs but it has all been a positive experience cause he knows his game and the mental application it takes to make runs. Same can be said about Jonathan Trott from England who was not plucked as a young fella rather made lots of first class runs and was just recently named the best player in the world. Mike Hussey played lots of first class cricket as well. I'm sure you can list lots of prodigy's who debuted early, i.e Ricky Ponting, Sachin Tendulkar, except they all would have dominated first class cricket and are superior players to those you just listed.

I know all those players and they have some talent but are only young. I'm saying if the perform then they will be moved up the ranks. The fact of the matter is Matt Cosgrove made the most runs in the shield last year and I think Quiney made the second most believe it or not. No one really stood out with the bat. Khawja has made runs and has a good first class record and Pattinson has bowled well and has also good a record, hence why they have both been in the aussie squad. Ferguson only averages 34 in first class cricket so forget about him. Tim Paine has made only 1 first class ton so there are genuine question marks around him. Wade in my opinion is better.

Marsh and Cummins are only young and need to perform in first class cricket. Marsh took a 6 for which was good but he has got to keep performing and hopefully make some runs as well. Cummins has only played a few games of first class cricket and averages in the 40 with the ball. Has undoubtable talent though.

Warner is not a test quality batsman and will be found out against top sides. Admitedly he does play straighter then people think but one score is not the be all or end all. Tom Cooper made 98 and 200* in the same game and he is a journeyman. Look what Katich had to do get back in the test side after the 05 ashes, he had to set a record for most shield runs in a season to be recalled and flourished. It is a honor to play test cricket for Australia and it is not like AFL were you blood players. Look what happened to Smith and presently to Hughes as they have been exposed. Shaun Marsh had 10 years first class cricket were in only the last 2 or 3 years he made serious runs but it has all been a positive experience cause he knows his game and the mental application it takes to make runs. Same can be said about Jonathan Trott from England who was not plucked as a young fella rather made lots of first class runs and was just recently named the best player in the world. Mike Hussey played lots of first class cricket as well. I'm sure you can list lots of prodigy's who debuted early, i.e Ricky Ponting, Sachin Tendulkar, except they all would have dominated first class cricket and are superior players to those you just listed.

Whilst I don't agree with all your views on the said players it was a good summation none the less .

Katich won't play again so everybody needs to move on with him .

Players in any sport can get better when they go up a level - Warne is your classic example .

We used to pick players when they were younger - the good thing about this way of doing it is if you drop them you can always bring them back later on .

So if Hughes gets dropped it's not the end - North gets dropped and that's probably it for him .

If you get a chance have look at the age of the Australian players in the summer of 86' / 87' when we played England here for the Ashes - it's quite an eye opener and Greg Chappell was a selector !

In fact here are 11 players who played during that series and their age at the time .

McDermott 21

S Waugh 21

Reid 23

Boon 25

Jones 25

Zoehrer 25

Hughes 25

Matthews 27 - made his debut at 24

Marsh 28 - like his son , he got picked late at 27

Lawson 29 - 23 ( debut )

Border 31 - 23 ( debut )

A few household names there you'd have to agree sd ?

Oh , and btw , what's wrong with the fact that Cosgrove made the most runs last year in Shield cricket ?

There's been quite a few big boys play lots of Test Cricket .

Edited November 11, 201113 yr by Nuggets

Just for the record, my dislike for the Aussie cricket team is unusual. I support Australia in every other sport - just not this one

My support for the Dees is unwavering. However. my dislike for the Aussie yobbo team may change after years of good behaviour and some cracking comebacks. They are Australia, after all.

Peter Roebuck found dead in his hotel room in South Africa.

Peter Roebuck found dead in his hotel room in South Africa.

Apparently the police spoke to him earlier the same day.

Sad we lose a great writer. I was listening to him on 774 during the debacle. His last test.

I'm quite shocked by the news.

Breaking Bad is completely superb....The coaching of the Australian XI is not.

I blame the coaches for yesterdays debacle....there was no structure at all in that innings. Rudderless in every way.

Talking about missing the point...

Debacles like that sit squarely in the hands of the players first and foremost.

They have a whole new selection committee. What exactly did you want to do to fix up CA?

Also, just to annoy you, are you aware that the probably next 3 test debutantes are going to be from NSW? Nothing to do with state bias, but rather because they are the best players in the pipeline

Agree about the selection issue. And I agree the next 3 debutants do look like coming from NSW.

Talking about missing the point...

Debacles like that sit squarely in the hands of the players first and foremost.

Like sending someone a PM and then deleting it before i get a chance to respond hey Rhino??

I still have your scribe via my email.

The Team that lost this Test to the South Africans is largely the same Team that got towelled up by England

Marsh is in for Smith / North and Lyon is in for Beer / Doherty

Time for some youth - it's almost like the selectors are too frightened to rebuild .

They need to bite the bullet - now .

Australia are in a position of rebuilding but, like the Dees, you can't just cast off every experienced player and play kids. If you do then they will get smashed and that may be worse for their development than not playing at all.

Cummins looks are real talent but the next top line young fast bowler, in my opinion, is Josh Hazelwood. Very tall, quick enough (mid 130s), consistent and has a great seam that can move the ball in the air or off the deck. Quality prospect.

Australia is lucky that we actually have a very strong group of young quicks coming through. Hazelwood, Cummins, Pattinson, Starc (although others rate him higher than I do at the moment). The bowlers we have at the moment, Harris aside, are pretty average. Siddle is honest, Copeland has faults, Johnson has even more (but lots of talent), Lyon and Beer are inexperienced.

Our future batsmen don't look quite as strong at the moment, with the leading players probably being Khawaja, Maddinson, Marsh x 2 (Mitch is super talented, but doesn't seem to know how to build an innings yet - but should be very good), Paine/Wade, Smith, Warner (probably better than is given credit for), Hughes ..... but the quality doesn't seem to be as high. Nor the output yet.

I think we'll need some older heads to stay around, especially in the batting, to help shelter the youngsters from the heat a bit.

Australia are in a position of rebuilding but, like the Dees, you can't just cast off every experienced player and play kids. If you do then they will get smashed and that may be worse for their development than not playing at all.

Cummins looks are real talent but the next top line young fast bowler, in my opinion, is Josh Hazelwood. Very tall, quick enough (mid 130s), consistent and has a great seam that can move the ball in the air or off the deck. Quality prospect.

Australia is lucky that we actually have a very strong group of young quicks coming through. Hazelwood, Cummins, Pattinson, Starc (although others rate him higher than I do at the moment). The bowlers we have at the moment, Harris aside, are pretty average. Siddle is honest, Copeland has faults, Johnson has even more (but lots of talent), Lyon and Beer are inexperienced.

Our future batsmen don't look quite as strong at the moment, with the leading players probably being Khawaja, Maddinson, Marsh x 2 (Mitch is super talented, but doesn't seem to know how to build an innings yet - but should be very good), Paine/Wade, Smith, Warner (probably better than is given credit for), Hughes ..... but the quality doesn't seem to be as high. Nor the output yet.

I think we'll need some older heads to stay around, especially in the batting, to help shelter the youngsters from the heat a bit.

First of all - I liked your post and though I don't agree with all of it , I did like your appraisal of our future talent .

You have to blood young players to rebuild - we did this in 86/87 - see my post ( 23 ) in this thread . They didn't all debut in that series but it was a young team . We've got nothing to lose Bob because we're losing now .

We've lost the last 2 ashes series , the last 2 series in India ( and we were lucky to win the last series against India here ) as well as losing the last Series against South Africa in Australia - We did beat South Africa over there last time but overall it's not good ( in the last few years ). The aforementioned Test Nations are 1,2,3 in the World as you no doubt will know .

Btw - the Aussie side has given us a great run for our money since '89 so we should be able to handle a bit of pain but we need to look to the future . We play India in 6 weeks and I'm not confident at all . And we go to England in 2013 for the Ashes - this current side would get beaten again .

I'm not advocating mass changes either - though on current overall form only Clarke , Watson , Harris , Hussey and Marsh can hold their heads up high . Whilst Lyon and Beer are just new to Test cricket .

Edit - latest news has Warner being flown to South Africa to replace Marsh . So you'd reckon either Khawaja and/or Warner will play the next Test .( And Cummins )

P.S - Bring back Warnie !

Edited November 13, 201113 yr by Nuggets

Like sending someone a PM and then deleting it before i get a chance to respond hey Rhino??

I still have your scribe via my email.

Nice work. I cant delete a PM after its reaches the recipient.Maybe its just you....

Talk about missing the point.....and an absence of the facts

Australia are in a position of rebuilding but, like the Dees, you can't just cast off every experienced player and play kids. If you do then they will get smashed and that may be worse for their development than not playing at all.

Australia is lucky that we actually have a very strong group of young quicks coming through. Hazelwood, Cummins, Pattinson, Starc (although others rate him higher than I do at the moment). The bowlers we have at the moment, Harris aside, are pretty average. Siddle is honest, Copeland has faults, Johnson has even more (but lots of talent), Lyon and Beer are inexperienced.

Our future batsmen don't look quite as strong at the moment, with the leading players probably being Khawaja, Maddinson, Marsh x 2 (Mitch is super talented, but doesn't seem to know how to build an innings yet - but should be very good), Paine/Wade, Smith, Warner (probably better than is given credit for), Hughes ..... but the quality doesn't seem to be as high. Nor the output yet.

I think we'll need some older heads to stay around, especially in the batting, to help shelter the youngsters from the heat a bit.

Good summnation Bob. Agree about the batting and spinning options

And Nuggets by your own hand, the selectors are actually doing what you have suggest. Not doing mass changes but certainly changing the scenery. Lyon, Khawaja, S Marsh and Copeland have all been blooded since the Ashes were lost. That's over 40% of your sideI would expect that Haddin, Johnson, Ponting and Hughes will be on rice paper. Paine, Cummins, Hazelwood and Starc should debut this summer.