14 hours ago, Jontee said:

Selection of Ashton is an absolute circus

You mean Agar The 'Orrible?

Bring back Justin Langer!   

If this is the sort of carp they dish up with a test match in the balance... then I'm sorry but the riot act needs to be read.  Very limited and poor understanding of the game to be going out with a mindset of sweeping everything on a deck that is keeping low... just dumb.  

Since when does Steve Smith sweep?  His effort today (looking where he wants the ball to go rather than keeping his eyes over the ball) shows he doesn't - did he play that shot on instruction?

In case you can't tell I"m as furious as AB - what an insipid effort!

Edited February 19, 20232 yr by grazman

16 hours ago, grazman said:

Bring back Justin Langer!   

If this is the sort of carp they dish up with a test match in the balance... then I'm sorry but the riot act needs to be read.  Very limited and poor understanding of the game to be going out with a mindset of sweeping everything on a deck that is keeping low... just dumb.  

Since when does Steve Smith sweep?  His effort today (looking where he wants the ball to go rather than keeping his eyes over the ball) shows he doesn't - did he play that shot on instruction?

In case you can't tell I"m as furious as AB - what an insipid effort!

Poor cricket by the Aussies.  A lack of fight and we batted like millionaires

The trophy has gone already (that's 4 winning series in a row to India) We just can't play spin well and part of the reason for that is due to the fact that our batsmen are brought up playing on flat-track roads in Australia

We don't bat well on seaming decks either as evidence with not winning an Ashes series in England for 20+ years

The reality is that we are just a B grade team these days and it's been that way for close on 20 years 

At home on flat decks we play well but that's the end of it ... as soon as the conditions become tough, we fold

Unless India take their foot off the gas, we'll be losing this series 4-nil and what chances the Ashes?

As for the World Test Championship, if we make the final it will be by default, not by playing good cricket

 

Couldn't agree more Macca.  I just wonder if the CA brains trust were seduced by the idea of 'Bazz Ball', but completely misunderstood the concept  (yes take risks - but stay within your wheel house).  Cummins response in the presser was completely unconvincing i'm afraid.  

I'm not completely giving up on the Ashes if they pick the right team.

12 minutes ago, grazman said:

Couldn't agree more Macca.  I just wonder if the CA brains trust were seduced by the idea of 'Bazz Ball', but completely misunderstood the concept  (yes take risks - but stay within your wheel house).  Cummins response in the presser was completely unconvincing i'm afraid.  

I'm not completely giving up on the Ashes if they pick the right team.

I remember the days when we would play 2, 3 or even 4 warm-up games before the Tests began.  All first-class and all 3 day games

Now it's virtually nothing.  So to say the least, we were ill-prepared.  Player preperation was playing big-bash cricket on roads (seriously??)

It's unprofessional and that's on CA ... the Test series' against India rivals the Ashes Tests these days.  It's a big-ticket affair

So we can blame the players (as I have) but what about the governing body,  grazman?

1 hour ago, Macca said:

I remember the days when we would play 2, 3 or even 4 warm-up games before the Tests began.  All first-class and all 3 day games

Now it's virtually nothing.  So to say the least, we were ill-prepared.  Player preperation was playing big-bash cricket on roads (seriously??)

It's unprofessional and that's on CA ... the Test series' against India rivals the Ashes Tests these days.  It's a big-ticket affair

So we can blame the players (as I have) but what about the governing body,  grazman?

We are in furious agreement.  I don't like 20/20 at all and I don't watch BBL so it's an easy target for me to criticise anyway, but I think the whole thing is completely contrived and rewards bat makers over producing real cricketers - I mean when was the last time someone like Adam Zampa even played red ball cricket?  They're trying to out baseball, baseball so to speak.   

The ch 7 news tonight made that exact point that there was no lead up practice matches because CAs priority was having the test stars available for the business end of the BBL given the $ they'd been given. So it's 100% on CA that they've prioritised commercial aspects over attaining success overseas - which is either extremely arrogant or extremely short-sighted depending on your perspective.  Like you said I don't think it would matter that much as we are so poor at playing spin here in Australia - but at least try to give yourself the best chance by preparing properly.   Don't get me started on this rubbish that has crept into commentary either that you can't hit against the spin.  Of course you can so long as you aren't trying to plunder the attack by playing expansive cross bat shots.  The Indian batsmen showed exactly how you do it by moving down the pitch and hitting the ball on the full or low half volley and importantly with a straight bat - it appears we learnt nothing from chasing leather off Laxman and Dravid!  There-in lies another problem you identified, when you are playing on roads in Australia you don't really need to learn to use your feet anymore which is a batting skill in itself. 

I also think the Aussie media fed into the whole issue by highlighting the Nagpur pitch which spooked the horses in the Australian Brains trust... really they've produced a spin friendly pitch in India - you don't say - what exactly were they preparing for -green tops?  Completely unsportsmanlike to prepare pitches that favour the home side, never happens anywhere else in world cricket!

Anyway onto the Ashes - there was talk of using a Duke ball in the second half of the shield series, but I'm not sure it ever came to much.  Hopefully some of our bowlers have at least been practicing in the nets with some.  I think it's crucial to have line and length bowlers over there which is why I'd be picking Boland and Hazelwood ahead of Starc.   Anyway I won't go into selection too much - it's all over the shop and no part of me understands how Agar got a test in Sydney based on the one first class wicket he'd taken in only one first class match for the year... no way does that happen even 20 years ago - just ridiculous. 

 

 

Edited February 20, 20232 yr by grazman

36 minutes ago, grazman said:

We are in furious agreement.  I don't like 20/20 at all and I don't watch BBL so it's an easy target for me to criticise anyway, but I think the whole thing is completely contrived and rewards bat makers over producing real cricketers - I mean when was the last time someone like Adam Zampa even played red ball cricket?  They're trying to out baseball, baseball so to speak.   

The ch 7 news tonight made that exact point that there was no lead up practice matches because CAs priority was having the test stars available for the business end of the BBL given the $ they'd been given. So it's 100% on CA that they've prioritised commercial aspects over attaining success overseas - which is either extremely arrogant or extremely short-sighted depending on your perspective.  Like you said I don't think it would matter that much as we are so poor at playing spin here in Australia - but at least try to give yourself the best chance by preparing properly.   Don't get me started on this rubbish that has crept into commentary either that you can't hit against the spin.  Of course you can so long as you aren't trying to plunder the attack by playing expansive cross bat shots.  The Indian batsmen showed exactly how you do it by moving down the pitch and hitting the ball on the full or low half volley and importantly with a straight bat - it appears we learnt nothing from chasing leather off Laxman and Dravid!  There-in lies another problem you identified, when you are playing on roads in Australia you don't really need to learn to use your feet anymore which is a batting skill in itself. 

I also think the Aussie media fed into the whole issue by highlighting the Nagpur pitch which spooked the horses in the Australian Brains trust... really they've produced a spin friendly pitch in India - you don't say - what exactly were they preparing for -green tops?  Completely unsportsmanlike to prepare pitches that favour the home side, never happens anywhere else in world cricket!

Anyway onto the Ashes - there was talk of using a Duke ball in the second half of the shield series, but I'm not sure it ever came to much.  Hopefully some of our bowlers have at least been practicing in the nets with some.  I think it's crucial to have line and length bowlers over there which is why I'd be picking Boland and Hazelwood ahead of Starc.   Anyway I won't go into selection too much - it's all over the shop and no part of me understands how Agar got a test in Sydney based on the one first class wicket he'd taken in only one first class match for the year... no way does that happen even 20 years ago - just ridiculous. 

 

 

Agree wholeheartedly

I didn't mind playing Agar as left arm orthodox bowling is lethal in India ... even Stephen O'Keefe took 11 wickets in a Test match in India and he bowls nude-nuts!  Michael Clarke took wickets in India with his pie-floaters

But the Agar selection/non selection is small-potatoes compared to the big picture

And I reckon CA has misread the room.  Real cricket fans care passionately about all test series but playing India and the winning or losing against them is huge

To get thrashed is unacceptable and there will be repercussions with regards to the make-up of the team. 

Leadership has to be questioned too ... Cummins & McDonald will come under fire unless we stop losing in the way we are losing right now

We can't even beat Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka anymore (lost or drawn the last 2 series played there)

As previously stated, we're a B grade outfit these days and the Poms will be well prepared for the Ashes contest

Edited February 20, 20232 yr by Macca

The story from Nagpur was that they had Agar pencilled in for the first test, but because he was bowling so poorly in the nets and Murphy was bowling so well they picked Murphy - similar story to Travis Head who looked all at sea in the nets so was dropped in effect for Renshaw ( I think Handscomb was going to play anyway as a RH).

My concern with Cummins as the captain is that he's tentative, he's slow to recognise when he needs to make bowling changes and the game drifts along and India creep another 30 or so runs ahead.  The old adage you do the thing the opposition least wants you to seems to elude him.  I do think he's a little constrained though by his some of the fields that Lyon sets - for a bloke that's taken 450 test wickets - he still sets very defensive fields - compare that to Warnie and the very attacking fields he used to set. 

Anyway I'm hoping that Cameron Green is fit for the next test - if so I'd drop Renshaw and open with Head again and play all three spinners again - i'm actually not fussed if they play Agar as the third spinner with Head in the side, if he bowls poorly then don't bowl him, but at least it might stiffen the tail a little.  If Cummins isn't back from his dash home in time for the third test  I'd bring in Boland again - I don't see much value in picking Starc who has an ordinary record over there anyway. 

Edited February 20, 20232 yr by grazman

11 minutes ago, grazman said:

The story from Nagpur was that they had Agar pencilled in for the first test, but because he was bowling so poorly in the nets and Murphy was bowling so well they picked Murphy - similar story to Travis Head who looked all at sea in the nets so was dropped in effect for Renshaw ( I think Handscomb was going to play anyway as a RH).

My concern with Cummins as the captain is that he's tentative, he's slow to recognise when he needs to make bowling changes and the game drifts along and India creep another 30 or so runs ahead.  The old adage you do the thing the opposition least wants you to seems to elude him.  I do think he's a little constrained though by his some of the fields that Lyon sets - for a bloke that's taken 450 test wickets - he still sets very defensive fields - compare that to Warnie and the very attacking fields he used to set. 

Anyway I'm hoping that Cameron Green is fit for the next test - if so I'd drop Renshaw and open with Head again and play all three spinners again - i'm actually not fussed if they play Agar as the third spinner with Head in the side, if he bowls poorly then don't bowl him, but at least it might stiffen the tail a little.  If Cummins isn't back from his dash home in time for the third test  I'd bring in Boland again - I don't see much value in picking Starc who has an ordinary record over there anyway. 

I reckon we're shell-shocked and India will be going all-out to crush our team

So it won't matter what team we put forward, the 2 pitches in the final 2 tests will be raging turners and we've got no chance on skill alone anyway

We can only do well if India rest on their laurels ... and that, I can't see.  They are out to prove to the World that they are the Kings of cricket

There's probably 50 spinners in India who would love to take the place of Ashwin, Jadeja or Axar.  So expect those 3 to go for the jugular

I'll be surprised if it isn't a 4-nil shellacking

Yep we're mentally shot - and why would you have any self-belief anyway when you've done bugger all preparation?  The difference between winning and losing in professional sport comes down to a combination of talent and the little advantages you can squeeze out of a better understanding of the local conditions - that's providing the attitude and application are the same  for both players/sides- when they're not - you don't even need that much talent!

It's why the Langer situation will continue to raise it's head - particularly if the Ashes don't go well.  It was all about attitude and application under Justin and that can rightly be questioned under the Macdonald/Cummins stewardship based on what we've seen.   

Edited February 20, 20232 yr by grazman

Full credit to the Aussies for a stirring win in the 3rd Test.  The pitch was a tad 'questionable' but to win by 9 wickets on a bush track was nonetheless, quite an achievement

We have now qualified for the World Test Championship* and our opponent may well be in fact, India

But India can miss out if they don't win the 4th Test and if Sri Lanka win both of their tests at home to New Zealand.  Which is quite possible but not probable

But who knows?  I didn't believe we had a chance of winning the 3rd or 4th Test but we could now win the final test if augers well

*The World Test Championship will be held from the 7th June until the 12th June (6th day is a reserve day) at the Oval

Guys (& or girls),

Have been contemplating doing another Best XI (Test) for the cricket tragics here which was last done 10 years ago back in 2013. The most we can have is 8 players so if you're interested let us know in this thread please. We'd ideally like frequent visitors to this thread who are keen on having a go at this. So that the Draft doesn't take too long. However, I understand work and other committments make it hard to visit every now and then, plus we have all the upcoming World Test final and Ashes series on the horizon.

Once we have the 'eight players' locked away I'll create the thread.

For those who haven't played before it's like a Draft. I'll get eight names and eight numbers, draw them out and that will be the draft order. Each subsequent round the order will reverse. (For equalisation purposes).

I think the last time we had : - 6 Bats, 1Wk, 4 Bowlers as a template. So, we'll use that again. Though all rounders are obviously interchangeable.

Why eight players ? Because it amounts to 88 players worldwide, which is equivalent to 8 (main) international teams and it gets difficult if we have any more players. ie. 9 players would require a 99 player pool and we'd be scraping the barrel for players.

So register here and we'll get the ball rolling eventually...

Criteria will be a minimum of 1 current player from each of the main 8 nations (Australia, England, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, South Africa, New Zealand & West Indies). The 3 remaining players you can either pick a 2nd player from any of those 8 nations or a player from the 4 lesser Test nations (Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Afghanistan & Ireland).

Just a bit of fun...

What is the reward?.... Bragging rights.

We currently have 4 players secured being myself @Rogue @Macca and @Scipio so just require 4 more. Please advise if you're interested?

Australia’s 17-man Ashes squad: Usman Khawaja, David Warner, Marcus Harris, Marnus Labuschagne, Steve Smith, Travis Head, Matt Renshaw, Cameron Green, Mitchell Marsh, Pat Cummins, Josh Hazlewood, Mitch Starc, Scott Boland, Nathan Lyon, Todd Murphy, Alex Carey, Josh Inglis.

Handscomb a little stiff, but otherwise no real surprissurprises for mine. I expect Warner will be given at least the first two tests. But if he's struggling and/or we're down early in the series the selectors may look to make a move. Harris is in good County form.

On 4/19/2023 at 9:09 AM, MadAsHell said:

Australia’s 17-man Ashes squad: Usman Khawaja, David Warner, Marcus Harris, Marnus Labuschagne, Steve Smith, Travis Head, Matt Renshaw, Cameron Green, Mitchell Marsh, Pat Cummins, Josh Hazlewood, Mitch Starc, Scott Boland, Nathan Lyon, Todd Murphy, Alex Carey, Josh Inglis.

Handscomb a little stiff, but otherwise no real surprissurprises for mine. I expect Warner will be given at least the first two tests. But if he's struggling and/or we're down early in the series the selectors may look to make a move. Harris is in good County form.

Playing Warner in England is such a risk. If he doesn't perform in the first test (because of course they'll pick him) they have to drop him, but I'm not confident that they will.

Agree with the above, though I'd be willing to go for 2 tests.

Their problem is that there's no obvious replacement for him. It would have been Pucovski, but it's well documented his personal issues.

All I'll say is thank God Khawaja is playing well, otherwise we'd be in big trouble at the top of the order.

There's really no way we should be picking Warner at all. I get we're committed for the game vs India, but if he fails there I wouldn't pick him for the Ashes.

I've been a fan, but he's been horrible for a long time in Tests (the 200 aside), and even at the peak of his powers has not been good in England

Edited May 9, 20232 yr by Rogue

Travis Head is now a Superstar! (official)

Who would have thought he'd get this good?

Aussies in a commanding position in the sense that it would be hard to lose this WTC match from here

Edited June 8, 20232 yr by Macca

It will be tough to leave Boland out of the first Ashes test, as predicted by many his technique as much as his line and length suit English conditions to a tee.  They'll try to rotate the bowlers, but the issue is one of them is a spinner (and I don't think the Poms will be generous enough to produce a green top even with Leach sitting out the series) and one of them is the skipper so that leaves Hoff, Boland, Starc and Nesser to fight it out for two spots over six tests.  A nice position to be in.

Also good that Warner looked the best he has for a while, but lets see how long that lasts once Broad goes around the wicket. 

What a dud pitch for  the first ashes test. Made for batting but we will see what the spinners do later.

1 hour ago, dl4e said:

What a dud pitch for  the first ashes test. Made for batting but we will see what the spinners do later.

Yep, it's a road but it might turn later on in the match.  Regardless, the spinners might get a bit of work anyway

Travis Head could be handy with his offies and we've got 3 part-time leggies. The batsmen seem to be handling the quicks ok

Edit: And right on cue Scotty Boland grabs a wicket right on lunch.  Nice delivery too

Edited June 16, 20231 yr by Macca

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Yep, it's a road but it might turn later on in the match.  Regardless, the spinners might get a bit of work anyway

Travis Head could be handy with his offies and we've got 3 part-time leggies. The batsmen seem to be handling the quicks ok

Edit: And right on cue Scotty Boland grabs a wicket right on lunch.  Nice delivery too

Made the match more interesting now it would be nice to get that Brooks out early than give him a good head start. Lyon will be the one.

37 minutes ago, dl4e said:

Made the match more interesting now it would be nice to get that Brooks out early than give him a good head start. Lyon will be the one.

England looked like they were going to rack up a big score in quick time but now they're in trouble ... just goes to show how 1 wicket changes things (specifically the wicket that fell right on lunchtime)

Lyon & Hazlewood both bowling very well

Edited June 16, 20231 yr by Macca

16 minutes ago, Macca said:

England looked like they were going to rack up a big score in quick time but now they're in trouble ... just goes to show how 1 wicket changes things (specifically the wicket that fell right on lunchtime)

Lyon & Hazlewood both bowling very well

True. That Stokes dismisal was huge. As usual Root will be the big problem. He is a class act.

8 hours ago, dl4e said:

True. That Stokes dismisal was huge. As usual Root will be the big problem. He is a class act.

Correct and Bairstow chimed in with a decent score as well.  The free scoring kept on all day and may well continue tonight

All our batsmen will be eyeing off a big score on this track ... I was a little surprised at Stokes' declaration but time will tell

11 hours ago, Macca said:

Correct and Bairstow chimed in with a decent score as well.  The free scoring kept on all day and may well continue tonight

All our batsmen will be eyeing off a big score on this track ... I was a little surprised at Stokes' declaration but time will tell

Was surprised at Stokes declaration as well but it is a bold move. If we bat well and long it  may look silly but if we fail then there will be plenty of time for them to win. I don't think their bowling attack is that good, especially if it stays dry and clear, so I would like to see us bat for close to 2 days if possible to aid in snuffing them out.